NY22
@mindspring.com
thumbs down from:
EGeezer 
jp10558
av8r
Doctor Four
Jim Gurd
|  Secutiy Question
I was wondering, if I was to start just using my Cable Modem with no router and no firewall any security shit to slow down my computer system and HAVE a backup done image of the entire machines drive ready at hand that would only take me 10-20 minutes to get the machine back up and running, would it be any problem not running the computer with security software? In my POV, if your not going to run security software I think that it's ok as long as you have a backup in the case that you do get attacked, which is more likely without protection I know but I'm just curious as to if I decide to stop using all forms of protection except for what comes with my computer and maybe some third-part browsers just to filter those annoying ads out of websites (For example: Ad-Block Plus for Firefox) would it really make any difference. Not too mention Acronis True Image will let me backup only what has changed since the last image was made. I think this would be a more effiencet approach to using a computer to its fullest power because when you use security software it gets annoying, it eats up resources, and it's pointless in my opinion especially when you would like to be able to use your computer at the full speed it was built for! Can anyone back me up to a certain point on this or give their POV? I know that there will be some people out there who will think I'm crazy but please try and hear me out. |
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kavuser22
join:2004-09-23
Chesapeake, VA | Re: Security Question
I think that is ridiculous "logic'. What about your machine being compromised and used as a bot or worse? You could help spread malware and spam.... and for what?
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dadkins
Living on a Blu Planet
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
 ·Comcast
edit:
June 8th, @11:09AM
| reply to NY22
Re: Secutiy Question
How old is your machine that a modern AV(other than Norton) is slowing it down?
Most routers do not slow down or put a load on the computer. 
Using an imaging solution is a good idea INCASE something ever does happen to the machine.
It is NOT, however, a repolacement for an AV.
Use avast! It doesn't slow any of my laptops down, not even the 5 year old AMD laptop.
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera |
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EGeezer
Summer is passing
Premium
join:2002-08-04
Country!
·RoadRunner Cable
 ·AT&T CallVantage
| reply to NY22
Gee, you have a short memory - or think we do.
»Interesting *Cough Cough* Question
»Do I need a router for 1 computer connected to internet?
I say since you've already seen responses to your "no security" theories, try it and see how well it works for you.
of course, I'd never dream that you were just trolling... 
--
The society which scorns excellence in plumbing as a humble activity and tolerates shoddiness in philosophy because it is an exalted activity will have neither good plumbing nor good philosophy: neither its pipes or its theories will hold water.
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NY22
@mindspring.com
| reply to kavuser22
Security Question
Well the point I'm attempting to make is that if your machine gets attacked by anything such as what you said: "...being compromised and used as a bot or worse?..." you could just put back the backup image of when the computer had no infections on it to begin with. With that said, the bot would not exist. You're restoring what was in the past over what is current in the present when you use a image backup of your drive to restore to an earlier time and I don't mean System Restore from Microsoft. Why would you bother running Anti-Virus software when all it does is slow your machine down. The ammount of time it takes to scan for viruses and find the ones that are on the system within let's say an average of 30 minutes or more time worth of scanning, I could have a working machine again in less than 8 minutes from a drive image I had backed up of the entire HDD. Why spend loads of money on security software when it's not something you need and more of just something you'll buy because everyone else uses it or because the people who make it tell you that "it's good to use" or "it won't do this to your machine or won't slow you down". I mean seriously, what happend to just turning on a computer, using it and shutting it down. Has time really changed that much or have people lost their minds and are bringing in millions of dollars to waste on this software? Microsoft Updates, OK that I can take, updates can be good (or bad for some), that I'll accept but all this Firewalling and everything, this is ridiculous. |
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NY22
@mindspring.com
| reply to dadkins
Secutiy Question
Well why have Anti-Virus software when you have a backup? There isn't need, just a waste of RAM and hard drive space and since you asked for my comptuers configuration I've decided to post it as an attachment for those who wish to view it.
NOTE: In no way am I trying to to yell at anyone or trying to make myself sound like the almighty god of comptuers but I am giving my own POV which I think I am allowed to do. |
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dadkins
Living on a Blu Planet
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast
edit:
June 8th, @11:55AM
| As was posted above... so YOU aren't spewing crap out to others.
So your info isn't mined and sent to - ???
I use TI myself... INCASE something ever does make it in and thrashes one of my machines.
*BUT*, I have various security in place to keep that crap off the machine to start with.
If my poor 5 year old AMD 1600+ & 512MB of RAM laptop can run without slowing down any while using avast and Outpost Pro, surely your Dell Dimension with a 2.53GHz P4 & 1GB of RAM can handle an AV!
What aren't you telling us?
BTW, You really should think about updating that machine!
Operating System Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition
OS Service Pack Service Pack 1
DirectX 4.08.01.0810 (DirectX 8.1)
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera |
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NY22
@mindspring.com
| said by dadkins :What aren't you telling us? BTW, You really should think about updating that machine! Operating System Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition OS Service Pack Service Pack 1 DirectX 4.08.01.0810 (DirectX 8.1) Yes I know, right now I'm just using this computer as a "Beta Testing" machine to try out different software and XP installation setups, trying different customizations to see what I like and don't like and what I want to tweak for this upcoming summer. Don't worry, I know about the updating and have nothing against it, despise that sometimes it opens up new wholes but I guess that's nothing new. Do you have True Image Home or another version? |
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EGeezer
Summer is passing
Premium
join:2002-08-04
Country!
·RoadRunner Cable
·AT&T CallVantage
edit:
June 8th, @12:22PM
| reply to NY22
You're confusing prevention with mitigation.
A compromised computer can be re-imaged in minutes, but if the keylogger has already sent the user's logins, CCNUMS etc to the hackers, re-imaging won't roll back the transfer of the data to the hackers who will still have it despite your reload. That mitigation will take a little longer than eight minutes.
If a spambot has sent out a few thousand child porn spams, the emails will still have been sent out from your PC, even if you reimage.
If someone uses your system for things that violate your ISP's TOS and you are shut off by the ISP, it may take more than eight minutes to resolve that issue.
If someone uses your system for illegal activities that are traced back to you through your ISP, you may spend more than eight minutes convincing someone that you weren't the culprit, or that you didn't willfully cooperate with the culprit.
Reimage doesn't mitigate the effects of the breach, but only removes the tools used for it. So, as I said, you've gotten your responses and have simply reworded your earlier theories. Again, if you still feel you don't need what's recommended, put your money where your mouth is and try it.
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The society which scorns excellence in plumbing as a humble activity and tolerates shoddiness in philosophy because it is an exalted activity will have neither good plumbing nor good philosophy: neither its pipes or its theories will hold water.
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AB
Premium
join:2006-04-04
Leesburg, VA
| reply to EGeezer
. . as I said, you've gotten your responses and have simply reworded your earlier theories. Again, if you still feel you don't need what's recommended, put your money where your mouth is and try it. Yep. *Sign*, and with gusto. |
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NY22
@mindspring.com
| reply to NY22
Security Question
How many people have experienced and have tried out this approach and have some proof even that security software is "a must". Let's see how many people have ever used a computer without any protection on it and have been find. Come forward and speak now. |
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The Snowman
Premium
join:2007-05-20
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to NY22
Re: Secutiy Question
One of the computers I use on the internet is less than 1/4 the size of your machine an it zips right along without so much as blinking.....plus. it can withstand any normal attack sent against it.......and its fully loaded with security.........the problem is not your machine...the problem is you and your lack of knowledge on how to tweak a computer to enhance the system.
Furthmore....you do not appear to be even slightly concerned that your computer may infect others or be used to attack others or used perhaps for illegal purposes........such an immature and totally selfish attitude will catch up to you oneday.....and when it does I hope you remember this post you made.
So if you want to continue having the attitude of an immature child thats your choice. But there is a hard world out there that someday you will have to deal with....an it wont show you any mercy.....just as you are not showing any mercy to those you may infect or attack. |
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SnowyOne
Premium
join:2003-04-05
Kailua, HI
 ·Clearwire Wireless
·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to NY22
As EGeezer pointed out, you can reimage your machine 5 times a day but once something like "David Thomas Maloney" get's out reimaging your machine has no effect on this post or the info within it. |
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javaMan
Premium,MVM
join:2002-07-15
San Luis Obispo, CA
| reply to NY22
said by NY22 :
. . .
NOTE: In no way am I trying to to yell at anyone or trying to make myself sound like the almighty god of comptuers but I am giving my own POV which I think I am allowed to do.
Noted, and you are certainly allowed to express your point of view. But others are pointing out (and have on more than one occasion apparently) that your logic is flawed. And if you would allow yourself, I think you would see it. You have made a couple of assumptions that are incorrect; one being that any security at all will "slow down" your computer. While it's true that certain products, an AV for example, can affect performance--mostly boot time--you would need to prove beyond a simple statement of fact that firewalls or routers significantly affect computer performance and by implication, personal productivity. I don't think you can produce any tests results that would convince even the casual observer of this.
I bring up personal productivity because what you propose has indeed been tested. Machines exposed as you describe are infected in minutes, not hours or days, but minutes. Ask yourself then if you are better off with overhead of a few milliseconds caused by a router or whether you would rather spend most of your time creating and restoring backup images?
You know, many theories can appear to be sound until they are exposed to the realities.
--
Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness. . . Isa. 5:20 |
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RJ44
join:2001-10-19
Atlanta, GA
| reply to NY22
Re: Security Question
said by NY22 :
I mean seriously, what happend to just turning on a computer, using it and shutting it down. Has time really changed that much or have people lost their minds I know this is pointless, but I just gotta do it.
What happened to just turning on a computer, using it and shutting it down? Nothing. It's still the same bad idea it's always been. I was a little late to the personal computer game, buying my first system in 1988. Guess what? The first software I installed on it was antivirus. Even in 1988 anyone who knew anything about computers took steps to protect themselves and their systems.
Nothing has changed. |
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javaMan
Premium,MVM
join:2002-07-15
San Luis Obispo, CA
edit:
June 8th, @02:44PM
| said by RJ44 :said by NY22 :
I mean seriously, what happend to just turning on a computer, using it and shutting it down. Has time really changed that much or have people lost their minds I know this is pointless, but I just gotta do it. What happened to just turning on a computer, using it and shutting it down? Nothing. It's still the same bad idea it's always been. I was a little late to the personal computer game, buying my first system in 1988. Guess what? The first software I installed on it was antivirus. Even in 1988 anyone who knew anything about computers took steps to protect themselves and their systems. Nothing has changed. Well, it has changed in some respects. I used McAfee when it was free software to download from a BBS I logged on to with my 2400 baud modem. However, I only needed to use it occasionally to check floppy disks (5 1/4") I got from others. But in those days personal computers were essentially stand alone entities. That is still possible, just disconnect the cable, otherwise you better have some kind of way to limit access by everyone you're connected to on the network.
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Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness. . . Isa. 5:20 |
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NY22
@mindspring.com
| reply to NY22
Secutiy Question
hmmmm Anyone ever use Deep Freeze? Something not so much like imaging software but similar, get infected with a virus just reboot and it's gone. Oh and by the way to all those who think I'm a "child" I should let all of you know that happen to be extremely smart in the IT field. Obviously I know about security, however I'm still going to debate the fact that it's a waste of time and money....until someones life is on the line I could care less. Obviously I'm not going around attacking peoples computers or anything like that. So the people who say they are using AV software with there computers why don't you show your specifications if you're so confident?  |
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javaMan
Premium,MVM
join:2002-07-15
San Luis Obispo, CA
| said by NY22 :
. . .I'm still going to debate the fact that it's a waste of time and money. . .
Any debate on the issue is in your mind.
--
Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness. . . Isa. 5:20 |
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dadkins
Living on a Blu Planet
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast
edit:
June 8th, @03:37PM
| reply to NY22
said by NY22 :... So the people who say they are using AV software with there computers why don't you show your specifications if you're so confident? AR190G laptop:
Core Duo 2.0GHz
1GB DDR2 PC2-4200
2 - 100GB HDDs in RAID 0
A190 laptop
Pentium M Dothan 1.7GHz
512MB PC2700
80GB HDD
FXA63 laptop
AMD Athlon XP 1600+
512MB PC133
20GB HDD
*ALL* laptops running avast Home 4.7.1001 & Outpost Firewall Pro.
All three run great!
All three have never been infected!
All three will continue to run as they are right now, although this laptop(AR190G) does get to try new stuff all the time. 
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera |
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fireflier
Coffee. . .Need Coffee
Premium
join:2001-05-25
Limbo
·RoadRunner Cable
edit:
June 8th, @03:36PM
| reply to NY22
"Not too mention Acronis True Image will let me backup only what has changed since the last image was made. "
TrueImage will happily backup all of that Malware you get infected with before you realize you're infected rendering your backups useless except for any made before the infection which will be difficult to determine. You'll have no way of knowing whether what's changed since the last backup is malware or not. |
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