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jc100
join:2002-04-10
1 edit | All ISPS Marginal
Most isps suck. We're paying 5x the cost of many countries with 50x the bandwidth. Isps in American simply give the least amount of service for the highest price they can offer. I am a big fan of the muni projects that these so called good isps love to kill off. They fear real competition and the fact that people are getting a good service at a low price. Quite frankly, I wouldn't be sad if every one of these companies went under. It's time we get our bang for the buck.
Instead of doing that, these companies are relying on copper and old technology to provide us with bandwidth. They have no intent on upgrading, as that means additional costs. Likewise, they love to throw caps around like it was a new sort of fad. Hell, I use Sprint EVDO on my laptop and I got a bandwidth counter. I remember when my isp (Time Warner), tried capping us at 15 GB first and then 40 GB. Quite frankly, if I used EVDO daily, i'd consume that in a heartbeat. No, I am not downloading illegal items. I like going to youtube and watching music videos. I like streaming the local radio station and listening to it when I am away from home. Simple web browsing consumes an easy 100 MB with images on websites. A one hour session might eat up 500 MB. If someone spent their day on the computer, you could easy use 5-6 GB by doing normal, legal, activities. The fact isps today want us to believe that normal users don't need bandwidth or consume a lot is a joke.
Hell, anyone that games, browses heavily, looks at music videos, will certainly become a high end user based on several isps standards. Maybe 20 percent of the people simply hop on, check their email, and do nothing else. I guess this is what these so called great isps compare the rest of us to. So my opinion, THERE IS NO GOOD ISP. Only Marginal ones giving a drop more than the BASIC amount of coverage and service. | |
DrModem
Premium
join:2006-10-19
USA | amen brotha. | |
ronpin
Imagine Reality
join:2002-12-06
Nirvana
 ·AT&T Southwest
| OMG - I must defend Charter?
17mbs is their answer to FiOS here in Keller. Their VoIP service is rock solid -- and $30. So I'm actually saving money over AT&T and getting much faster speeds (but yeah years ago I dumped 'em hard -- all's forgiven here  )
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Instant bugging and GPS location info -- thanks to your cell phone and Bush's warrantless NSA! | |
truocchio
join:2004-07-05
Miami Beach, FL
| reply to jc100
Re: All ISPS Marginal
UH.....read the article.
First, Verizon is installing Fiber to the home and offering AMAZINGLY cheap bandwidth prices, thats why they win.
Second, link a major ISP website in these other countries that have 1/5 the cost and 50 times the bandwidth. In Europe connections are much more expensive and in most cases slower. Asia, save Korea, has much more expensive pricing if HSIA is avaiable at all, Africa???, so send me the links and I'll STFU.
Third, most DSL providers DO NOT have caps.
Fourth, the only fiber based muni project, UTOPIA, has caps on their services too. If you think the government entities are going to be an open access free for all you are sadly mistaken and have learned nothing from history.
I am not telco or cable fanboy, actually I compete against them everyday because I didnt think they always offered what consumers wanted. But until you educate yourself on how much it costs and what goes into providing the services you think are owed to you then stop posting uninformed rants with no evidence to back up your claims. In the meantime try to purchase a business class connection and you wont have to worry about caps...oh let me guess you are not willing to pay what it costs to get what you want so we should all pay more for heavy users like you!? | |
jc100
join:2002-04-10
| Truch,
Another troll. First off, Utopia has NO CAPS on certain isps. I know someone who has it. Second, there is also Paxio in California with no respective caps. Do you research before you speak, or assume the rest of us are dumb enough to take you at face value? | |
RayW
Premium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
clubs:
·XMission
| reply to truocchio
said by truocchio  :Fourth, the only fiber based muni project, UTOPIA, has caps on their services too. If you think the government entities are going to be an open access free for all you are sadly mistaken and have learned nothing from history. UTOPIA (acronym for Utah Telecommunication Open Infrastructure Agency) is *NOT* an ISP, they are nothing more than the infrastructure/connection for wired services. XMISSION, AT&T, MSTAR, NUVONT, and VERACITY are the current ISP's you can sign up for if you subscribe to UTOPIA. Note that QWEST is not there (I understand that UTOPIA was originally going to be in the service end as well as the connectivity part, but QWEST bought a law that prohibited that?).
I guess you can say they cap, residential users only get 100 Mbps service while businesses get 1 Gbps. Only problem is, at this time I think the 100 Mbps is shared among the net, TV, telephone, radio, and what ever else is there. So if you only have internet service and the ISP allows it, the entire 100 Mbps can be internet (do not know if that is 100 Mbps total, or 100 in each direction).
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I am not lost, I find myself every time. | |
truocchio
join:2004-07-05
Miami Beach, FL | I stand corrected. You are correct they just do transport, however some of the ISP's that provide service still have BW caps | |
SSidlov
Other Things On My Mind
Premium
join:2000-03-03
Pompton Lakes, NJ
 ·Optimum Online
 ·Cingular Wireless
| reply to jc100
said by jc100 :Most isps suck. We're paying 5x the cost of many countries with 50x the bandwidth. Isps in American simply give the least amount of service for the highest price they can offer. This is not a rational statement. When looking at pure won to dollars or yen to dollars it might be true, the per capita income of the areas are not comparable. Using a per capita income basis the costs are comparable. Here are the facts and I'll use So. Korea as the comparison as it's one of the fastest broadband sites in the world.
1. The infrastructure in So Korea (around 39Ksq mile) is only 13Kmiles long. West Virginia (around 24.5Ksq miles) is going to be wired with 3X that amount by Verizon. Verizon is cherry picking areas so, reaching everyone in West Virgina may take considerably more cable.
2. That infrastructure was funded by the So Korean government. They lease the 90% overbuild to the ISPs. Cost comparisons to the US are not valid.
3. Metro SEOUL is were more than 48% of the entire country of So Korea lives-- the second highest density city in the world. The most dense US city metro area is the NY Metro area (#4 and that's So. Conn to North Jersey) but it's less than 10% of the entire US's population. But, it's 50% bigger than the metro Seoul area. It has 50% less population per sq mile. The number of people passed per mile are significantly less a significant issue for costs.
4. Let's compare the two areas, the densest US and So Korea's city's broadband services.
a: 70% of the metro NY is serviced by Cablevision using a hybrid coax and fiber network. It's 34Kmiles long. Almost 3 times the size of So Korea's fiber network and Cablevision paid for it. While CV does service NYC's outer boroughs it does NOT service Manhattan which would add a third to the number of residences it passes.
b: CV's standard speed is 15mbps down and 2mbps up. It also offers 30/5 service and 50/50mbps service -- today. Prices range from $49 before discounts to $199/mo. 100mps service has been announced and is in testing in Oyster Bay, long island NY. That's 7X what they offer in So. Korea, today for standard service.
c: 50% of So Korea's population is wired. 50% of Cablevision's possible customers subscribe to broadband services. 76% of Cablevision's possible customers subscribe to digital video which on CV's network is IP-switched video. So if CV's potential customer base is 4 million homes, what we are saying here is that 76% of them use internet service even if they don't realize it. 50% use traditional Inet service, the same rate as So. Korea. 25% of CV's possible customers use VOIP from CV. No figures are available for non-CV VOIP services, but it may be significant since Vonage et al, are cheaper than OOL's VOIP.
d. the per capita income in So Korea is $20K US. The per capita income in Metro NY is $40K US (US per capita income is $28K). The $25 per month rate vs the $50 rates are equivalent especially when infrastructure costs is taken into account. CV spent about $5B to wire it's 35K miles starting in the late 90's.
So, what does this show? That when you compare similar areas at least as close as we can get by density - Metro NY vs Metro Seoul, I at least find that Metro NY is more than equal.
When looking at Tokyo with it's No.1 status in density, the advantages of number of customers passed per mile becomes even more significant. Higher speeds and bigger backbones are a basic requirement for the services to be even functional. It's so cost effective to run more cabling that competition truly exists.
Here in the US, it's significantly more difficult to maintain, wire, and it all was done without direct funding from the gov't. (fed/state direct funding usually has some tax related basis for it)
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