Rick
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-06
Waterbury, CT
clubs: 
| I think it's safe to say that we can now officially....
take this issue to the same level as the "capping" issue.
And, by that ..I mean ...Let's have BBR just continually rip this company to shreds for taking steps to preserve the integrity of their network for those of us who do NOT abuse it.
Heck, why not just post the "solutions" for how people can even get around this and continue on with their ever loving ways of soaking up so much bandwidth that there's simply none left for the rest of us to use and enjoy.
Oh.Wait. That's exactly what this story now does.
Silly me for thinking that is what would come next.
Well, allow me this post to post my opposing view.
As a comcast customer.
Dear Comcast..
Keep right on doing whatever it is you're doing.
We love you for it.
Some of us are of the belief that you give us a tremendous amount of value for our money. And even believe that 300 gigs per month is still a WHOLE lot of data..and those who seek to use their connection more than that really should
a)cough up the money for a business class connection or
b) get a secondary line to split your use between the two services.
Ladies and Gents..Comcast does not owe us the world for 42.95 per month. Nor do they owe the abusers an unlimited license to take whatever it is they want..at whatever cost it is to comcast..in order to satisfy their own demands.
You see...the problem with that..is that SOMEONE is going to pay anyway..and who it will be will be YOU..and I..
those who do use our connections for very reasonable and then some...downloading and uploading.
Comcast is VERY fair when it comes to their limits..
and those limits are in place for the benefit of us all..not the detriment to us all.
Comcast should NOT be engaged in the business of allowing the kinds of copyright stealing abusers who exist out there to seed an entire p2p network. And, for this website..BBR..to post "solutions" and "workarounds" to that is really..just flat out wrong.
And, you elevate yourself to a much LOWER level..IMHO.
Listen. I'm not against people connecting to work..nor even using their connections..a LOT.
And Comcast does allow for that.
I'm always using my connection. It's my right arm...and it's always there to serve me..no problems..no questions asked.
What that tells me is that the people who ARE having problems are by far..exceeding EVERY reasonable boundary there is.
And quite frankly..for BBR to be aiding that kind of behavior..and worse yet..to be presenting Comcast in an unfavorable and negative light because of it..almost non stop these days..
Is really...
Just plain..
Flat out...
Wrong.
Thank you for allowing me my op Ed piece.
~Rick
Satisfied Comcast Customer
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The Coyote captured the RR! Roadrunner Rick is now Comcastic! |
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NGOwner
join:2000-11-21
Leawood, KS | Bravo.
[NG]Owner |
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swintec
Premium
join:2003-12-19
Alfred, ME
 ·RapidVPS
·surpasshosting
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
 ·VoicePulse
 ·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to Rick
You didnt tell us to what you think is the acceptable limit. Is it a set number of GB's? Is it only if we use our connections the same way you do? Once you provide us with a number or limit, how did you arrive at that limit? What is it based on?
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BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
·Comcast
| reply to Rick
ok you don't like it feel free to cancel your account here.
I use the connection to vpn into multiple servers at work. Does that make me a hog ? after all it is 30 gigs a month I use.
I do feel they owe me something and it's not the world. They owe me the service I pay for. Just like I owe them for the services they provide.
They refuse to spend money upgrading while making record profits. That to me is the bastion of greed. You know what, broadband is getting more intensive every day, site sizes are growing peoples need for bandwidth is growing. These are things that comcast has to fix. Because they squeeze people for cash and some don't use their cable more then dial up doesn't mean the rest of us should do the same.
If comcast wants those of us who use our connections to leave then just flat out say it. Don't pull this traffic shaping shit.
They are making record profits and don't want to pour money into the system because they are feeding the greed of investors. Well get down from the ivory tower there buddy and realize as a customer we deserve decent service for what we pay. This isn't the middle east where they run an entire isp off a t-1.
The problem with a monopoly is they are free to abuse people and when they do some people take it as gospel. Which shows how closed minded people are.
They are running out of bandwidth at the node. If this happens in a business network I work on , we are ordered to find the cause and expand where we have to so it never happens again. Not start telling users they can't use certain applications because they use to much bandwidth. We don't forge traffic. That is borderline criminal. And they get by on "We own the network so we can do what we please." Sure go start pumping out porn on it then.
Take other measures , spam , botnets , trojan spewing website hosts , and app pumping warez bots. Do some real work on the issue not just listen to what the salesman tells you.
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kcblack
Premium
join:2000-09-11
Chicago, IL
·RCN CABLE
| wouldn't forging packets be a violation of the ECPA?
Essentially you are interfering with communication and thats a no-no if I understand the act correctly since they are not law-enforcement? (or the government)
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Rick
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-06
Waterbury, CT
clubs:
| reply to swintec
said by swintec  :You didnt tell us to what you think is the acceptable limit. Is it a set number of GB's? Is it only if we use our connections the same way you do? Once you provide us with a number or limit, how did you arrive at that limit? What is it based on? You raise a very important question. And, I'll answer it both in terms of how I see it..and, how I think that comcast see's it. (although i'm certainly not here to speak for them).
Comcast..doesn't..and shouldn't have limits. At least in terms of putting a set number on both the amount of time someone can use the connection, and specifying exactly how much someone can download or upload.
Their TOS clearly defines this issue as being this.
If someone is using..or abusing..as the case may be..the network to such an extent that it starts to cause problems..then they reserve the right to take action.
I honestly don't think they want to have limits. They don't want to constrain we users in not allowing us the occassional large download..or even many of them for that matter. You really do need to consider how much data 300 gigs per month is. That is a WHOLE LOT of data.
And that appears to be the level that some start running into trouble at.
The point is..you have to believe that those people ARE starting to impact their neighbors connections.
Imagine..the guy next door on this shared type of network doing that 24/7. YOU..would be the one on here in the forums complaining how slow YOUR connection was..because of them.
That..IMHO..is what Comcast is out to police. For the benefit of us all who want to reasonably use this network.
And, reasonably doesn't need to involve a set limit.
Reasonably can be..sometimes I might need 20 gigs a month..and other times it might be 100gigs.
That's how reasonable people use a service.
Again..if someone is engaged in activity that has them needing to download 500 gigs of data a month..more power to them. But what they REALLY should then do is realize that this residential service is not here to fully allow for that..and what they need to do is to have either a backup dsl line..or move into a business tier.
This is not about denying anyone anything. It's about keeping the service workable and good for everyone.
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The Coyote captured the RR! Roadrunner Rick is now Comcastic! |
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Vathral
Premium
join:2002-08-26
New York, NY
clubs: | reply to Rick
If all customers thought like you, they would surely abuse the hell out of the customers.
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Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI
·Site5.com
 ·AT&T Midwest
·Comcast
| said by Vathral :If all customers thought like you, they would surely abuse the hell out of the customers. Ify...Doggy...Bunny
Thats "Ify I had a doggy I could catch a bunny".
The point is all customers don't think like that. |
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Rick
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-06
Waterbury, CT
clubs:
| reply to BosstonesOwn
said by BosstonesOwn :ok you don't like it feel free to cancel your account here. I use the connection to vpn into multiple servers at work. Does that make me a hog ? after all it is 30 gigs a month I use. I do feel they owe me something and it's not the world. They owe me the service I pay for. Just like I owe them for the services they provide. And, assuming you're not having problems with your connection..I think they are giving you the service you pay for..and then some.
I don't believe for a minute that what they're doing is seeking to impact what YOU are using YOUR connection for and nowhere have I ever seen anyone having problems on this service for just 30 gigs per month.
And, your statement that they refuse to spend money upgrading their network is absolutely ludicrous.
In January..with adelphia..I was getting about 4000k/440 speeds.
Today..I get 20,000/1500k speeds.
For exactly the same price even.
This company is spending a FORTUNE to do this..and give us these kinds of speeds.
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The Coyote captured the RR! Roadrunner Rick is now Comcastic! |
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en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·DSL EXTREME
| reply to BosstonesOwn
I agree.. I use VPN / SSH Tunnels for everything work related. While I don't expect the world, I do NOT expect blind caps or traffic shaping because I use VPN unless they explicitly state it in the ToS/AUP.
If I have my VPN tunnel 'reset', I'd cancel service and find another ISP. Likewise, if I have my VoIP service degraded because my ISP wants me to use theirs (at 2x the cost), I'll find another ISP.
30 GB/month is probably normal. Remote Desktop sharing, video conferencing, VoIP, ftp (400MB to 2.5GB ISO's).
Since I have a 3Mbps connection, I don't think DSL-Ex minds my volume too much.
I do think that some p2p networks can generate excessive traffic.
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Canada = Hollywood North |
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nasadude
join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD
·Comcast
| reply to Rick
said by Rick :take this issue to the same level as the "capping" issue. ... this doesn't appear to be in the same category as "capping". when they cap, they are giving you a limit (even though the service is supposed to be "unlimited" and they refuse to tell what the limit is). nobody says they don't have a right to cap.
in the case of bittorrent, they are interfering with the proper operation of a legal and legitimate application. they would probably just outright ban the use of bittorrent, but that would probably cause too big of a stink and would give the supporters of network neutrality bullets to shoot them with. so, they do it cleverly and slyly, hoping no one notices or at least the main stream media doesn't notice.
furthermore, since comcast already kicks people off when they download too much, they could always do so with people using bittorrent that exceed the (unofficial) limit. this indicates that people using bittorrent aren't necessarily downloading too much as you imply, comcast is just throttling ALL uses of bittorrent. |
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swintec
Premium
join:2003-12-19
Alfred, ME
·RapidVPS
·surpasshosting
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·VoicePulse
·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to Rick
said by Rick :Again..if someone is engaged in activity that has them needing to download 500 gigs of data a month..more power to them. But what they REALLY should then do is realize that this residential service is not here to fully allow for that..and what they need to do is to have either a backup dsl line..or move into a business tier. What is the threshold for needing a business account then? Are you saying 500 gigs is grounds for a business acount? 300? 200? Everyone always refers to getting a business account because someone uses a lot of traffic. Where is the published difference between residential and business?...Correct, it is all depending on personal opinion. I work for a business here in town whos total usage on there business RR account is about 2-5 GB's a month. What say you? Is that classified now as residential or business, since the line between the two seem to be drawn by bandwidth used.
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Vathral
Premium
join:2002-08-26
New York, NY
clubs:
·Earthlink Cable Mo..
| reply to Nightfall
said by Nightfall :said by Vathral :If all customers thought like you, they would surely abuse the hell out of the customers. Ify...Doggy...Bunny Thats "Ify I had a doggy I could catch a bunny". The point is all customers don't think like that. Yeah. And not all customers are criminals either
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F@H |
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braynes
Premium
join:2005-03-14
Waterville, ME
·Great Works Internet
·RoadRunner Cable
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to Rick
Rick
How About this, the ISP says you get 300 gb Not unlimited service
Along come Joe and he uses 450 gb a billing cycle, ISP feels he abused his level.
Joe’s sister lives next door she d/l about 50 gb a billing cycle, she feels she is not getting her money’s worth.
Now the ISP allows 300 so why not let sis give her surplus to her brother, she get her money and the brother does not get shit on by the ISP?
Bruce |
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Rick
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-06
Waterbury, CT
clubs:
| reply to swintec
I'm not sure why you're so hung up on having some fixed limit.
You say you work for a business. Clearly, that's grounds right there to have a business connection.
As far as residential use goes though, if you're using up to 5 gigs a month at a business..don't you think that when you start to get to 200 to 300 gigs..per month..for a residential connection...is starting to push the bounds of what is reasonable that a service provider should service someone for..for 42.95 per month?
I sure do.
And clearly, those people know who they are..and really should better prepare themselves for that kind of usage.
And lastly, again...I think for Comcast to set fixed limits would be a detriment overall to the many of us who don't abuse this network. What I think comcast is saying is..we don't want to put limits on you.
If you need to use a lot this month..100 gigs even..use it.
And next month..you might not need that.
Again..remember..the ones who are getting the letters and having the problems are those running up to 3x's those numbers.
And I think that any reasonable person would agree that they are using their residential connection for something it simply wasn't intended for.
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The Coyote captured the RR! Roadrunner Rick is now Comcastic! |
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Rick
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-06
Waterbury, CT
clubs:
| reply to braynes
said by braynes :Rick How About this, the ISP says you get 300 gb Not unlimited service Along come Joe and he uses 450 gb a billing cycle, ISP feels he abused his level. Joe’s sister lives next door she d/l about 50 gb a billing cycle, she feels she is not getting her money’s worth. Now the ISP allows 300 so why not let sis give her surplus to her brother, she get her money and the brother does not get shit on by the ISP? Bruce Really, that's the way it works anyway.
IF comcast were to set limits..there's no way in he** they could afford to give everyone 300gigs per month at this price.
It's completely unreasonable given the cost of bandwidth.
A network like this operates on the shared principle that some will need more than others in any given month.
This month..you need 100gigs..and I need 5.
That's why it works for everyone.
The problem comes in though that when some..want it all..all the time.
That..is being unreasonable and more so..it affects the overall network and this shared principle of how it works.
People who are crying for caps do not realize that if they were there..they would be NO where near 300 gigs.
They might very well only be 30 to 50.
Because if Comcast..or any isp..had to ALLOCATE that much bandwidth to every subscriber..whether they used it or not..
they simply could never afford to do it for what they charge now.
I have to tell you, that if I was in the camp that needed to download 300 gigs per month..I'd do one of two things.
Either go with a comcast workplace solution...
or have both a residential connection and backup dsl line..assuming it was available.
I think both are the answers to this for that very small minority of people who run into problems.
And, they should realize that if they're asking for so much..then they should cough up a little bit more..and pay for it.
It is not up to me and others to subsidize their excessive usage.
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The Coyote captured the RR! Roadrunner Rick is now Comcastic! |
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koitsu
Premium
join:2002-07-16
Mountain View, CA
| reply to Rick
Rick, I respect what you have to say, and I acknowledge your point fully. It's a legitimate statement, and I sincerely do understand it.
Now I ask you to understand my point, which is (I believe) the point most of technically-savvy Comcast customers, and probably the majority of DSLR/BBR users are making:
Comcast is completely violating (that is, destroying) the legitimacy of the TCP protocol.
In English: Comcast is screwing up TCP packets with their equipment.
I completely understand Comcast's need to try and "tune" their network based on bandwidth concerns or heavy users. I respect that. But I CANNOT respect a company who fucks with stateful TCP sessions by injecting TCP RST into the stream prematurely using ANY piece of equipment (Sandvine or otherwise).
What they are doing violates core pieces of how IP (e.g. TCP/IP) works in general. They're playing a risky game by doing this. It's getting a lot of attention in the networking community, and the attention is not positive.
An ISP's job is to provide me transit -- as far as throttling what's important vs. what isn't, that's for me to decide, not for them.
And for those considering the "So pick another ISP" rebuttal: we have no other choices in the Bay Area. It's AT&T/SBC who offers DSL only (max. 6mbit, and CO distance plays a HUGE ROLE -- in my case, I cannot even get 1.5mbit due to my CO distance being over 12000 electrical feet). Wireless IS NOT considered broadband around here.
So please understand where I'm coming from. I want an ISP that provides me transit, and does not (pardon my language) fuck with packets. It's not their job to fuck with packets. It's their job to provide me unaltered service.
Clear?
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Making life hard for others since 1977.
I speak for myself and not my employer/affiliates of my employer. |
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
| reply to Rick
said by Rick :take this issue to the same level as the "capping" issue. And, by that ..I mean ...Let's have BBR just continually rip this company to shreds for taking steps to preserve the integrity of their network for those of us who do NOT abuse it. Heck, why not just post the "solutions" for how people can even get around this and continue on with their ever loving ways of soaking up so much bandwidth that there's simply none left for the rest of us to use and enjoy. Oh.Wait. That's exactly what this story now does. Silly me for thinking that is what would come next. ~Rick Satisfied Comcast Customer I agree.
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Rick
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-06
Waterbury, CT
clubs:
| reply to koitsu
With all due respect..no, It's not clear.
Comcast responded to this and said they weren't doing it.
And so, it becomes a he said..she said issue, and it doesn't make the statements of those who are saying they are doing it true..nor does BBR's reporting on this issue. (and certainly not their telling anyone how to get around it if it is in fact occurring. )
IF..it is true however, I can agree that there might be some cause for concern. But, it needs to be pointed out that they have every right under their TOS to cut off and deny service to abusers and those who might otherwise harm the rights of the rest of us to use and enjoy our connections.
What Comcast HAS shown me in the MANY posts here at BBR that I've seen, is that they are EXTREMELY generous when it comes to warning even the abusers.
I have yet to see anyone say they ever had a problem who wasn't downloading and/or uploading MEGA amounts of data each month.
And, we are talking about 300 Gigs per month here.
An ISP does NOT have to stand by and allow their network to be destroyed and the majority of their customers to receive lousy service to protect the rights of those who are out for everything they can get.
And, you should ALSO note that EVEN at that..Comcast sends out a warning letter advising these people that they must limit their usage BEFORE ever cutting them off.
We ALL know that it is the p2p..bit torrent..seeder crowd who is using the MEGA amounts of bandwidth.
The lady or gentleman connecting to their office and using 30 gigs a month and the casual user is NOT doing that.
And, what that means is 99% of people have NO PROBLEMS whatsoever with this issue.
The very vocal crowd is the other 1% who ARE having a problem.
And, to them, I..and apparently Comcast is saying..curb your activities..or find and alternate provider.
These people DO have other options...they just don't want to PAY for them.
To the best of my knowledge.just about ANYONE can order a business class T1 or other kind of connection.
That's not what they want though.
They want to have it all for 42.95 per month.
And...I fully support comcast in not giving it to them because WE other customers are NOT here to subsidize their excessive usage.
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The Coyote captured the RR! Roadrunner Rick is now Comcastic! |
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Dezbend
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-20 | reply to Rick
If I work from home 2 or 3 days a week on a residential account, is that violating the spirit of the service even if I don't hit the kind of numbers you are talking about?
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If it is not recorded, it simply does not exist. |
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