Rick
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-06
Waterbury, CT
clubs: 
| reply to koitsu
Re: I think it's safe to say that we can now officially....
With all due respect..no, It's not clear.
Comcast responded to this and said they weren't doing it.
And so, it becomes a he said..she said issue, and it doesn't make the statements of those who are saying they are doing it true..nor does BBR's reporting on this issue. (and certainly not their telling anyone how to get around it if it is in fact occurring. )
IF..it is true however, I can agree that there might be some cause for concern. But, it needs to be pointed out that they have every right under their TOS to cut off and deny service to abusers and those who might otherwise harm the rights of the rest of us to use and enjoy our connections.
What Comcast HAS shown me in the MANY posts here at BBR that I've seen, is that they are EXTREMELY generous when it comes to warning even the abusers.
I have yet to see anyone say they ever had a problem who wasn't downloading and/or uploading MEGA amounts of data each month.
And, we are talking about 300 Gigs per month here.
An ISP does NOT have to stand by and allow their network to be destroyed and the majority of their customers to receive lousy service to protect the rights of those who are out for everything they can get.
And, you should ALSO note that EVEN at that..Comcast sends out a warning letter advising these people that they must limit their usage BEFORE ever cutting them off.
We ALL know that it is the p2p..bit torrent..seeder crowd who is using the MEGA amounts of bandwidth.
The lady or gentleman connecting to their office and using 30 gigs a month and the casual user is NOT doing that.
And, what that means is 99% of people have NO PROBLEMS whatsoever with this issue.
The very vocal crowd is the other 1% who ARE having a problem.
And, to them, I..and apparently Comcast is saying..curb your activities..or find and alternate provider.
These people DO have other options...they just don't want to PAY for them.
To the best of my knowledge.just about ANYONE can order a business class T1 or other kind of connection.
That's not what they want though.
They want to have it all for 42.95 per month.
And...I fully support comcast in not giving it to them because WE other customers are NOT here to subsidize their excessive usage.
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The Coyote captured the RR! Roadrunner Rick is now Comcastic! |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
 ·AT&T Yahoo
·AT&T DSL Service
 ·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest
| said by Rick  :Comcast responded to this and said they weren't doing it. And so, it becomes a he said..she said issue, and it doesn't make the statements of those who are saying they are doing it true..nor does BBR's reporting on this issue. No, it means they lied, and are being caught red-handed... but you are defending their actions as just. So be it.
--
"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) |
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myosh
join:2001-05-03
Cupertino, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC
| reply to Rick
said by Rick :IF..it is true however, I can agree that there might be some cause for concern. But, it needs to be pointed out that they have every right under their TOS to cut off and deny service to abusers and those who might otherwise harm the rights of the rest of us to use and enjoy our connections. Fine, then cut off their connection for TOS violations! I think Comcast doesn't have the balls to do this because it will "make them look bad" so instead, they're screwing with the TCP packets and denying it publicly. |
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DufiefData
join:2006-06-13
Gaithersburg, MD | That's a poor solution. The de-serviced subscribers would then complain that Comcast kicked them off. |
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Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI
 ·Site5.com
·AT&T Midwest
·Comcast
| reply to KrK
said by KrK :said by Rick :Comcast responded to this and said they weren't doing it. And so, it becomes a he said..she said issue, and it doesn't make the statements of those who are saying they are doing it true..nor does BBR's reporting on this issue. No, it means they lied, and are being caught red-handed... but you are defending their actions as just. So be it. I believe the proof is in the pudding here. I haven't seen anykind of packet shaping or proof of it on my Comcast connection. I believe there is a difference between being caught "Red Handed" and being suspected of doing something but saying they are anyway just out of spite. |
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myosh
join:2001-05-03
Cupertino, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC
| reply to DufiefData
said by DufiefData :That's a poor solution. The de-serviced subscribers would then complain that Comcast kicked them off. I agree that it's a poor solution... FOR COMCAST! It, however, is NOT a poor solution for their customers because there are legit uses for bit-torrent.
I would rather see the abusers kicked off rather than having Comcast screw with the TCP packets. |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·AT&T Yahoo
·AT&T DSL Service
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest
2 edits | reply to Nightfall
said by Nightfall :I believe the proof is in the pudding here. I haven't seen anykind of packet shaping or proof of it on my Comcast connection. I believe there is a difference between being caught "Red Handed" and being suspected of doing something but saying they are anyway just out of spite. Well, that's valid concern. I was taking quote:
insiders have privately been confirming that this information is accurate.
at face value as in, it's confirmed true. Evidence on the outside says it's true. Insiders say it's true. Maybe it's only being tested in certain areas, but even so... Kinda like, Looks like a Duck, Walks like a Duck, Quacks like a Duck... etc
Then again, you have to wonder why someone is so quick to jump to their defense, when the evidence points the other way. Basically coming out and denying it when they have no information or evidence to back up the position... just based on their Fanboy gut reaction. |
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Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI
·Site5.com
·AT&T Midwest
·Comcast
| said by KrK :said by Nightfall :I believe the proof is in the pudding here. I haven't seen anykind of packet shaping or proof of it on my Comcast connection. I believe there is a difference between being caught "Red Handed" and being suspected of doing something but saying they are anyway just out of spite. Well, that's valid concern. I was taking quote:
insiders have privately been confirming that this information is accurate.
at face value as in, it's confirmed true. Evidence on the outside says it's true. Insiders say it's true. Maybe it's only being tested in certain areas, but even so... Kinda like, Looks like a Duck, Walks like a Duck, Quacks like a Duck... etc Then again, you have to wonder why someone is so quick to jump to their defense, when the evidence points the other way. Basically coming out and denying it when they have no information or evidence to back up the position... just based on their Fanboy gut reaction. I also have to wonder why someone is so quick to jump on the attack where there isn't a lick of proof posted anywhere on this. Its just a lot of hearsay and rumor. I attribute it to the Chicken Little scenario. You cry "Comcast is regulating bitorrent traffic" enough, people will start to believe it. Especially here in the BBR forums.  |
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koitsu
Premium
join:2002-07-16
Mountain View, CA
| said by Nightfall :I also have to wonder why someone is so quick to jump on the attack where there isn't a lick of proof posted anywhere on this. Its just a lot of hearsay and rumor. I attribute it to the Chicken Little scenario. You cry "Comcast is regulating bitorrent traffic" enough, people will start to believe it. Especially here in the BBR forums. Here's your proof. Read the Sandvine PDF specification for yourself:
»Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections
And additional proof -- result of real-time sniffer traffic, showing TCP RSTs in question (same thread, different post):
»Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections
If this doesn't convince you, nothing will.
--
Making life hard for others since 1977.
I speak for myself and not my employer/affiliates of my employer. |
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funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC
·Verizon Online DSL
 ·Skype
| reply to Nightfall
said by Nightfall :where there isn't a lick of proof posted anywhere on this. What the hell, Nightfall? I've provided a ton of proof! Short of breaking in to the CMTS and pressing your nose against the actual box, what proof do you want? 
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon USA
Are you affected by Comcast's RST forging? How to test it! -or- Read my original report. |
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Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI
·Site5.com
·AT&T Midwest
·Comcast
| said by funchords :said by Nightfall :where there isn't a lick of proof posted anywhere on this. What the hell, Nightfall? I've provided a ton of proof! Short of breaking in to the CMTS and pressing your nose against the actual box, what proof do you want? I completely missed these posts. Thanks for the additional info. I still haven't seen any of these results first hand. Calls to a few friends of mine in markets in Chicago and New York have also come up empty. I am not saying seeing is believing, but it sure would be nice to know for sure if this is something not in one area. Would be nice to know for sure so a nose pressed against the box itself would be good proof. |
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funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC
·Verizon Online DSL
·Skype
| said by Nightfall :said by funchords :said by Nightfall :where there isn't a lick of proof posted anywhere on this. What the hell, Nightfall? I've provided a ton of proof! Short of breaking in to the CMTS and pressing your nose against the actual box, what proof do you want? I completely missed these posts. Thanks for the additional info. You're welcome. I've calmed down, now.
That it is happening should no longer be a question.
It does vary from region to region, and I've confirmed that my Sandvine box lives near me in my town in Oregon (5 traceroute hops away). So it does follow that either:
• the rules are set differently,
• or the tolerances are different (or the outbound saturation is different) at the CMTS's across the country,
• or that the installation of the device is in some places and not in others.
You're redeemed!  Us charter DSLReports members need to trust one another.
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon USA
Are you affected by Comcast's RST forging? How to test it! -or- Read my original report. |
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