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« Roadtrip! Where to stay north of LA?  
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dogma
Premium
join:2002-08-15
Boulder City, NV

Household Budget Epiphany

I had this "epiphany" almost 3 years ago. Only my expense list was about 30 items. This is when I realized, unless a family of 4 is making over $300K/year (which is about 1% of the families in SoCAl.), it is impossible to afford to live in SoCal (at least at a "lifestyle" I find acceptable). All of the needed expenses:

Mortgage(PII&T)payment¹ - - - - - - - - - - 2,100.00
Auto loan² - - - - - - - - - - -- - - - - - - - - 760.00
Auto insurance - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 200.00
Auto expenses (gas, etc.)³ - - - - - - - - - - 275.00
Groceries ($150.00/week)⁴ - - - - - - - - - - - 650.00
Utilities⁵ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 510.00
Telephone (including cell & Internet) - - - - - 365.00
Medical - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 530.00
Credit Card - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 125.00
Life/Umbrella insurance⁶ - - - - - - - - - - 340.00
Entertainment(Cable TV/restaurants/NetFlix) - - - 125.00
Savings - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 500.00
Children's education(tuition/clothes/soccer/etc)- - 2,500.00
Weekly Cash ($100.00/week) - - - - - - - - - - 433.33
Vacation (set aside) - - - - - - - - - - - - 400.00
College fund Savings - - - - - - - - - - - - - 500.00
-------
Total Expenses per Month - - - - - - - - - - -$10,313.33

(important)Assumptions & notes:
¹The Mortgage is on a $199K note @ 5%, average homes cost $600K+: add another $2500/Mo.)
²Two moderate 30MPG subcompacts of about $16K each (Who in the hell wants to drive those in SoCal??).
³1500 Miles/Month each car.
⁴ WallMart & Costco, not Whole Foods.
⁵ 1800s.f. house/near the temperate coast.
⁶ Moderate Term Life.

$9,313.33 x 12 = $123,759 in post tax expense. Average bring home after tax is about 33% at best, so 1.33% x $123,759 = $164,600 in total/gross yearly income.

So 2 "professionals" making $85K/year each with 2 kids can afford this...assuming they have a $199K mortgage note. In the "real world" s of late, this is highly unlikely, so if you add another $2K/Mo, or additional $24/K per year in a mortgage that buys a house in the hood the pre-tax income must go up another $30K/year to $194,600. (Banks require mortgage(P&I&I)/taxes NOT to exceed 33% - 40% of yearly gross income...so a $4K/Mo total note = about $150K/yr.)

The expenses I listed are must-have basics IMO. Yeah, one can cut back on the car note, or no car note, but one still has maintenance expense of at least $200/Mo. If one is working, then medical insurance may be included as a benefit, and you can opt not to take a "nice" family
vacation and scale that back as well.

But whats not included are all of the, what I term,
"budget curve balls":

(small stuff, but still adds up)
Furniture
Electronics (Plasma's/computers/playstation's/etc)
home repairs (Home Depot/plumbing/lawn/concrete work/etc.)
Home niceties (refinish wood floors/ carpets/ drapes/etc.)
Traffic Tickets

(Big stuff, very expensive, and can't be put off too long)
New roof
house painting
large co-pay for major (even minor) medical events.

Nobody wants to include these as they are unpredictable, but
absolutely are an expense.

My experience is "curve ball" expense probably adds up
to an additional $10K/Year minimum, so add yet another
$13K in gross income, now we are at about $207,600/year pre tax income.

At over $200K/year income in this scenario, (which requires
working like a Slave) and you're still pinching-pennies because you have zero "extra" money.

If you are a empty-nester or single, then L.A. is much cheaper.

As far as I am concerned, its about overall quality of life,therefore I called Bullshit after that "epiphany". So thats for me. But even in other, lesser cost of living geographies, the numbers still don't add up. Perhaps my numbers are flawed? Are all the people in those nice communities really bringing in $250K+/year ? What is the middle-class family really doing?

1. Sponging off their parents to underwrite their lifestyle?
2. Racking up credit card/HELOC debt?
3. eBay Platinum power selling on the side?

Obviously the "average" family of 4 in SoCal pulls in
almost $20,000 per month (*lol*) as evidenced by all the
new $80K SUV's I see. Too rich for my blood. What gives?


CurtesyFlush
Bababooey, fafafooey, tatatoothy.
Premium
join:2002-08-23
Fontana, CA

Two kids, how old?

I know what part of town your house is in, so you bought at the right time, according to the comps I was looking at last week. Comps across the main drag from you that is, over in my grandparents old hood.

Does that phone figure include business cellphone charges?


dogma
Premium
join:2002-08-15
Boulder City, NV

Kids: 6 & 12

Phone breakdown:
Base SBC/AT&T Land line (no services, no LD): $20/Mo
Packet8 VoIP line: $30/Mo
DSL: $40/Mo
AT&T/Cingular 1400min Family plan (2 phones): $100/Mo.
Sprint 550min Family Plan w/data (Blackberry): $120/Mo.
Texting (teenage language) overage: $25/Mo.


No_Strings
Premium,Mod
join:2001-11-22
The OC
reply to dogma
If it wasn't for the meth lab in the basement, I don't know how we'd keep body & soul together.


CurtesyFlush
Bababooey, fafafooey, tatatoothy.
Premium
join:2002-08-23
Fontana, CA
reply to dogma
What's driving that utility figure?


dogma
Premium
join:2002-08-15
Boulder City, NV

said by CurtesyFlush See Profile :

What's driving that utility figure?
The Meth Lab & indoor pot farm lights..
..uh, 4 people wash & dry a lot of clothes, take a lot of baths & showers, lawn is green, small window A/C, 2 PC's on, 1 Freezer, 60's/Miami Vice "louver glass" lets out more heat from the old 150,000BTU furnace heater with NO zones, and somebody is home 24/7.


nightdesigns
Gone missing, back soon
Premium
join:2002-05-31
AZ
·Cox HSI

reply to dogma
I didn't see property tax in there which is another ouch.

The only way I recently purchased a house was a lot of help from family and an early cash out on an inheritance, and then again, my Grandmother owns half of it. At some point I'll have to buy her out, but for the time being she's using it as a tax deduction.

We need to start saving for my kids college tuition now ... we don't have kids yet and won't for a few years.
--
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No_Strings
Premium,Mod
join:2001-11-22
The OC

Host:
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1 edit
said by dogma See Profile :

Mortgage(PII&T)payment¹ - - - - - - - - - - 2,100.00

I assume the "T" to mean tax.


nightdesigns
Gone missing, back soon
Premium
join:2002-05-31
AZ
·Cox HSI

said by No_Strings See Profile :

I assume the "T" to mean tax.
I stand corrected. Carry on.
--
[[Your signature here]]


dogma
Premium
join:2002-08-15
Boulder City, NV

reply to nightdesigns
said by nightdesigns See Profile :

We need to start saving for my kids college tuition now ... we don't have kids yet and won't for a few years.
"In 20 Years the Average Private School Tuition will be just under $75,000[/year] The Average Public School Tuition will be just under $25,000[/year]"
~ »www.thinkfinancial.com/blog/stud···tuition/

For two kids in an Average Private College + room/board/ect (x 1.4%) = $840,000

Using this: »allfinancialmatters.com/Calculat···ator.htm
it estimates I will be looking at $120K to $180K each kid.

I should [have been] really be socking away $1,000/Mo ($12K/year@5%): »www.moneychimp.com/calculator/co···ator.htm

If one can come up with $840K in 18 years, or $1 Million 20...it may be a better idea to send the kid to trade school for pipe fitting or something, and create an endowment/trust fund with the $1 Mil. This would subsidize their income by about $70K/year...every year...forever. So if they make (today's dollars) $70K/yr as a pipe fitter + the trust fund = $140K/yr income. Better than most first year Ivy League MBA's...without the stress.

I can always pretend/hope/remain in utter denial that the kids will be academic or athletic scholarship material. Ah, the dream of the "full ride". However, there are plenty of unused Foundation scholarships and other financial aid at many schools. Problem is, all of the tellers at my bank have college degrees.

Has it gotten to the point that most college degrees aren't worth the paper they are printed on?


jig

join:2001-01-05
Hacienda Heights, CA

the trick is to find a way to get the money to the kid without having to report it on their fafsa. that means getting it out of the parents tax returns as well.

i have no idea if these are legal or not, but:

you might be able to set up an annuity. the income from the annuity can be tax free (if the tax is paid on entry). there might be restrictions on how the payments are made (monthly vs every 2 years or something), but i think it can sneak under tax return form for the student (when they are probably filing 1040ez's).

i seem to remember there being an entry blank for income for annuities, recently, so it might not be an available path at the moment.

another way might be to create a business or foundation giving out scholarships... but those can be audited and if you are giving to a family member.... you're sunk.

anyway, the defined problem is: you have money set aside to get a child through college. you want the student to have to use the least amount of the money. reporting the money to the college means less grants, fee interest loans, and sometimes less scholarship money. so, how do you get the money to the student without having to report it to the school, yet have the money available for various costs while the student is enrolled?


TwoFrogs
Cacology adumbrates pendemonium
Premium,MVM
join:2002-01-20
Hell Main Fl
clubs:
·Verizon FIOS

reply to dogma
Two articles just published:

quote:
Data: Incomes too low to sustain home prices

By STEPHEN OHLEMACHER
The Associated Press

WASHINGTON - Since 1990, homeowners have faced a growing gap between their incomes and the price of their homes, according to Census data.

The widening gap in all but a handful of the nation's 500 largest cities helped make the recent boom in housing prices unsustainable, according to analysts. The rising prices were fueled largely by low interest rates and risky borrowing, rather than increasing incomes.

"We had an artificial economy," said Brad Geisen, founder of Foreclosure.com, a Web site that lists foreclosure properties. "There was all this wealth created in real estate, and it wasn't really created."

Nationally, the median household income grew about 60 percent from 1990 to 2006, roughly matching inflation. The median home value -- the point at which half were more and half were less -- more than doubled, to $185,200.
»www.pe.com/business/realestate/s···b09.html

quote:
Housing takes bigger bite out of income
Household income is up in Orange County, but so are home prices, rent.
By JENNIFER MUIR and JEFF COLLINS
The Orange County Register

Housing is taking a bigger bite out of household incomes in Orange County, costing renters and most homeowners 5 percent more than it did just seven years ago, new Census figures released Wednesday show.

Rent and utilities ate up 32.5 percent of household income for tenants here in 2006, up from 27.5 percent in 1999, the Census report shows. Loan payments, insurance, utilities and other housing costs for homeowners still paying a mortgage consumed 30.2 percent of their household income, up from 25.1 percent in 1999.
»www.ocregister.com/money/rent-mo···e-census
--

--Random fortune from "people":
Succumb to natural tendencies. Be hateful and boring.
I can do that.

You Got to Know When to Fold'em

Lovehound

join:2005-08-18
Northridge, CA

reply to No_Strings
said by No_Strings See Profile :

If it wasn't for the meth lab in the basement, I don't know how we'd keep body & soul together.
I've got a quarter acre of pot in my own basement, and damn the electricity rates are sky high! I'm thinking of planting coffee next season... Call me Juan Valdez...



FutureMon
OW My Eyes
Premium,ExMod 2002-05
join:2000-10-05
Colorado Springs, CO
clubs:

reply to dogma
How in the world can you justify $2,500/month for "childrens education"? That category should be able to be broken down a bit further.

You buying them new clothes and soccer gear every month or are there annual costs mixed in with the monthlies?

Day care averages around $450/month
Lunches @ $2.50/day = $50/month

Are your kids in private school?

- FM
--
Undisputed BBR Karaoke Champion! Care to challenge me?


dogma
Premium
join:2002-08-15
Boulder City, NV

said by FutureMon See Profile :

How in the world can you justify $2,500/month for "childrens education"? That category should be able to be broken down a bit further.

You buying them new clothes and soccer gear every month or are there annual costs mixed in with the monthlies?

Day care averages around $450/month
Lunches @ $2.50/day = $50/month

Are your kids in private school?

- FM
Excellent question:
I break it down to $1250/Mo for each child.

Sports - $ 100.00
Dance/Martial arts - $ 125
Music $120
Summer camp/educational/YMCA $400 (amortized over the year)
Entertainment - $100
School donation - $400

Both in charter school, so no base tuition. Many parents like ourselves understand there is no budget for field trips/computer lab/teachers assistants/P.E./etc, so we underwrite the the school with "donations".

The average private school tuition in L.A. is about $1200/Mo. However, the more "elite" schools can be North of $4K/Mo per student. So actually, my numbers are extremely low I think.

Also important to point out, many of these expenses are elective so to speak. I could go the cheap route, like most parents, and sit them in front of the TeeVeee from the time they get home from school (excluding homework) to bedtime & on the weekends. But since there is NO TeeeVee during the week, and only 5 hours total on the weekends in this house, we need to keep them challenged. Music lessons, organized sports practices, Swimming at the Y, arts & crafts, Scouts, Sailing, etc. every evening.

BTW, no "day care".


CurtesyFlush
Bababooey, fafafooey, tatatoothy.
Premium
join:2002-08-23
Fontana, CA
said by dogma See Profile :

BTW, no "day care".
So Momma's at home?


dogma
Premium
join:2002-08-15
Boulder City, NV
Yep

Lovehound

join:2005-08-18
Northridge, CA

reply to dogma
said by dogma See Profile :

I could go the cheap route, like most parents, and sit them in front of the TeeVeee from the time they get home from school (excluding homework) to bedtime & on the weekends. But since there is NO TeeeVee during the week, and only 5 hours total on the weekends in this house, we need to keep them challenged. Music lessons, organized sports practices, Swimming at the Y, arts & crafts, Scouts, Sailing, etc. every evening.
I wish we had more parents like you and your wife. When your kids and those kids of "most parents" grow up, those other kids are going to be working for your kids!

And unfortunately, "those kids" are going to be spray painting my fence and burglarizing my house.


Kibbles
Premium
join:1999-07-31
Mission Viejo, CA


1 edit
said by Lovehound See Profile

And unfortunately, "those kids" are going to be spray painting my fence and burglarizing my house.
:

You have to assume they will be smart enough to know how to remove a child proof cap.

Dogma have you thought of moving out of state to say Texas or Arizona where the cost of living is cheaper?


No_Strings
Premium,Mod
join:2001-11-22
The OC
Thought of it? I think he has t-shirts printed.

Don't get him started.
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