Pictor Guy
join:2004-06-21
Sammamish, WA | Phew! Good thing they're on top of it!
It's good to know the cable companies are on the ball with controlling torrents and such. After all, Zombie's aren't real.
*sarcasm /off* |
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swintec
Premium
join:2003-12-19
Alfred, ME | Good point. I wonder how much bandwidth could be reclaimed if Botnets were targeted and not torrents and usenet.
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evilghost
Premium
join:2003-11-22
Springville, AL
 ·Windstream
| The Storm worm is a P2P botnet, it uses P2P traffic to control the zombies. It is P2P traffic, snort sees it as e-donkey with some of the latest variants I've had a chance to inspect.
All these chittorrent users who scream injustice, what exactly are you legally downloading? |
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swintec
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Alfred, ME
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| said by evilghost  :All these chittorrent users who scream injustice, what exactly are you legally downloading? I can't speak for the torrent folks since I dont use torrents, just Usenet...but as far as what I/they download legally? Everything is legal to download...although I think the torrent folks run into issue when they are forced to upload at the same time. I use Usenet mainly for movies though. 
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evilghost
Premium
join:2003-11-22
Springville, AL
·Windstream
1 edit | said by swintec :said by evilghost :All these chittorrent users who scream injustice, what exactly are you legally downloading? I can't speak for the torrent folks since I dont use torrents, just Usenet...but as far as what I/they download legally? Everything is legal to download...although I think the torrent folks run into issue when they are forced to upload at the same time. I use Usenet mainly for movies though. Good luck with that, I'm sure the MPAA will agree... |
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swintec
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Alfred, ME
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1 edit | said by evilghost :said by swintec :said by evilghost :All these chittorrent users who scream injustice, what exactly are you legally downloading? I can't speak for the torrent folks since I dont use torrents, just Usenet...but as far as what I/they download legally? Everything is legal to download...although I think the torrent folks run into issue when they are forced to upload at the same time. I use Usenet mainly for movies though. Good luck with that, I'm sure the MPAA will agree... Wheres the law stating that strictly downloading is illegal?
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evilghost
Premium
join:2003-11-22
Springville, AL
·Windstream
2 edits | said by swintec :Wheres the law stating that strictly downloading is illegal? Conversely, where's the one stating it isn't? With much of copyright law left to interpretation and the entire RIAA/MPAA fiasco I'd rather avoid court costs and potential liability for engaging in copyright infringement. |
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BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
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| reply to evilghost
said by evilghost :said by swintec :said by evilghost :All these chittorrent users who scream injustice, what exactly are you legally downloading? I can't speak for the torrent folks since I dont use torrents, just Usenet...but as far as what I/they download legally? Everything is legal to download...although I think the torrent folks run into issue when they are forced to upload at the same time. I use Usenet mainly for movies though. Good luck with that, I'm sure the MPAA will agree... Oddly enough , I have to ask, just where is the law about that. It seems like it is a base that has not been covered yet.
Seems like a moral issue at best.
My understanding was they are suing for sharing everything. Not downloading.
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BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
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| reply to evilghost
said by evilghost :said by swintec :Wheres the law stating that strictly downloading is illegal? Conversely, where's the one stating it isn't? Innocent until proven guilty ? If there is no law stating it is illegal is it still illegal ? Nope , Immoral yes , illegal nope.
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swintec
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Alfred, ME
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| reply to evilghost
said by evilghost :said by swintec :Wheres the law stating that strictly downloading is illegal? Conversely, where's the one stating it isn't? Stop by the File Sharing Forum to read up on things. I don't have the time to search right now, but can sum up the law in the mean time, in that the law pertains to SHARING copyrighted works. By simply downloading one is not sharing nor distributing copyrighted material. This is why uploaders are the prime target. The media will have you believe other wise when they report on the issue and report that such and such was fined/punished for downloading copyrighted works, this in turn, gives people the same mind set as you. No one has ever been cited for downloading, always sharing/distributing/uploading.
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moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
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| reply to swintec
said by swintec :Good point. I wonder how much bandwidth could be reclaimed if Botnets were targeted and not torrents and usenet. Why target people you can't find? Cutting off customers is easier. |
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supergirl
join:2007-03-20
Pensacola, FL
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| reply to swintec
said by swintec :said by evilghost :said by swintec :Wheres the law stating that strictly downloading is illegal? Conversely, where's the one stating it isn't? Stop by the File Sharing Forum to read up on things. I don't have the time to search right now, but can sum up the law in the mean time, in that the law pertains to SHARING copyrighted works. By simply downloading one is not sharing nor distributing copyrighted material. This is why uploaders are the prime target. The media will have you believe other wise when they report on the issue and report that such and such was fined/punished for downloading copyrighted works, this in turn, gives people the same mind set as you. No one has ever been cited for downloading, always sharing/distributing/uploading. Obtaining copyrighted material is illegal and, yes, you can be sued. USC even tells students about it: »www.sc.edu/copyright/dmca.shtml
Virginia says it flat out: "Come on! Is downloading copyrighted stuff really stealing? If it's done without the permission of the people who own the copyright - yes, it's really stealing. According to the law - as well as to the performers, writers, software engineers, and other people who make their living from royalties - downloading a song or a movie or a piece of software in violation of its copyright is no different from walking into a retailer and shoplifting it. Really."
»www.itc.virginia.edu/security/co···faq.html
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tiger72
SexaT duorP
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Saint Louis, MO
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1 edit | reply to swintec
said by evilghost :said by swintec :Wheres the law stating that strictly downloading is illegal? Conversely, where's the one stating it isn't? That's not how American law works. Everything is legal unless explicitly outlawed by the states or federal government. |
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whatdoyouthink
@comcast.net
| reply to evilghost
said by evilghost :All these chittorrent users who scream injustice, what exactly are you legally downloading? Ummmmmm, pr0n, don't you know? |
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Pictor Guy
join:2004-06-21
Sammamish, WA
| reply to evilghost
said by evilghost :All these chittorrent users who scream injustice, what exactly are you legally downloading? Hmmm... things like...
Star Wars Revelations (yes a legal download look it up) and many other indie movies
World of Warcraft (also legal 3GB+ torrent file available from Blizzard)
Linux ISO's
And lets not forget that people work from home and some of those people may be downloading legit files for work that can easily get up to several gigs in size. |
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swintec
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Alfred, ME
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| reply to supergirl
said by supergirl :Obtaining copyrighted material is illegal and, yes, you can be sued. USC even tells students about it: » www.sc.edu/copyright/dmca.shtmlVirginia says it flat out: "Come on! Is downloading copyrighted stuff really stealing? If it's done without the permission of the people who own the copyright - yes, it's really stealing. According to the law - as well as to the performers, writers, software engineers, and other people who make their living from royalties - downloading a song or a movie or a piece of software in violation of its copyright is no different from walking into a retailer and shoplifting it. Really." » www.itc.virginia.edu/security/co···faq.html They are misusing the word downloading again. The first link you posted started on the right track, however they quickly led people to further believe that ONLY downloading is illegal. The problem is that most people think of torrents and other P2P programs that force you to also upload while you are downloading. So they equate one with the other.
You get in trouble with DISTRIBUTING copyrighted works. How would someone be DISTRIBUTING copyrighted works simply by downloading? There has to be an in and and out for a distributor to happen. You also mentioned stealing. What is one, who is simply downloading, stealing from the original owner of the copyrighted piece? To quote dumwaldo "Stealing deprives the owner of their property, downloading does not."
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supergirl
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1 edit | If you buy a CD or DVD, you are NOT the owner so, yes, downloading a copy some idiot posted is stealing and could send you to court. True, the RIAA/MPAA are going after uploaders mostly but the DMCA does allow going after plain downloaders too. I think Virgina college says it in plain English you can actually understand, swintec, but you just don't want to believe it.
And, to answer the obvious question, if I own a CD or DVD, am I renting the copyright? Nope. You are just buying permission to hear and view it not reverse engineer it in any way, shape, form or fashion including removing DRM, or redistribute it (kinda has a big FBI screen telling you that on DVDs or did you miss that 5 year, $250,000 fine warning?).
DMCA: »www.gseis.ucla.edu/iclp/dmca1.htm
Sec. 1321. Remedy for infringement
`(a) IN GENERAL- The owner of a design is entitled, after issuance of a certificate of registration of the design under this chapter, to institute an action for any infringement of the design.
`(b) REVIEW OF REFUSAL TO REGISTER- (1) Subject to paragraph (2), the owner of a design may seek judicial review of a final refusal of the Administrator to register the design under this chapter by bringing a civil action, and may in the same action, if the court adjudges the design subject to protection under this chapter, enforce the rights in that design under this chapter.
`(2) The owner of a design may seek judicial review under this section if--
`(A) the owner has previously duly filed and prosecuted to final refusal an application in proper form for registration of the design;
`(B) the owner causes a copy of the complaint in the action to be delivered to the Administrator within 10 days after the commencement of the action; and
`(C) the defendant has committed acts in respect to the design which would constitute infringement with respect to a design protected under this chapter.
`(c) ADMINISTRATOR AS PARTY TO ACTION- The Administrator may, at the Administrator's option, become a party to the action with respect to the issue of registrability of the design claim by entering an appearance within 60 days after being served with the complaint, but the failure of the Administrator to become a party shall not deprive the court of jurisdiction to determine that issue.
`(d) USE OF ARBITRATION TO RESOLVE DISPUTE- The parties to an infringement dispute under this chapter, within such time as may be specified by the Administrator by regulation, may determine the dispute, or any aspect of the dispute, by arbitration. Arbitration shall be governed by title 9. The parties shall give notice of any arbitration award to the Administrator, and such award shall, as between the parties to the arbitration, be dispositive of the issues to which it relates. The arbitration award shall be unenforceable until such notice is given. Nothing in this subsection shall preclude the Administrator from determining whether a design is subject to registration in a cancellation proceeding under section 1313(c).
The entire DMCA is located here: »thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?c···e175446:
The legal theory used to create the DMCA is partly disseminated from the Betamax decision, which the Supreme Court did NOT say using the Betamax device to even record OTA programs was explicity legal. Based on that decision, the DMCA has great power to enforce since the court ruled even taping wasn't necessarily legal. Instead, the ability to record was not precluded and not any right to record was explicitly granted. So, in legal reality, the "rip, mix, and burn" of even purchased CDs could be considered illegal based on that decision. (I believe the satellite radio companies are being sued on that legal theory by allowing users to keep it temporarily on their devices.)
Basis of copyright theory is: you buy the CD, DVD or similar product for personal viewing only. You do not really own anything but the physical media and NOT the content on the physical media. You are, in fact, renting it and do not own anything. The copyright owner explicitly owns the content unless they sell a license (and license is not the thing you get using WMP) to you.
The DMCA only exempted one class: providers that allowed content uploads are generally not held liable but subsequent court decisions, VZ I believe, made it very clear that the hosting site has to turn over the identity of the infringer upon a subpeona.
YouTube is being sued under the DMCA for not preventing illegal content uploads and downloads because Google, the owner of YouTube, is profiting from the illegally viewings, and they know full well it is going on.
Search engines, a la Google are Yahoo, are also exempting from indexing illegal content because they are not explicitly mining the Net for that content. Ask the dumb kids who created a search engine to find illegal content, referring to even their own sites, how much they paid? $14,000 a piece if I recall.
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Saving the world keeps me busy. However, I find Earth very primitive from my home planet of Krypton.
-Supergirl |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
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Tulsa, OK
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| reply to swintec
True... but the whole file trading, even USENET and FTP "scene" if you will is based on the idea that people will upload and share.
If everyone was just a downloader (leech) then the whole thing would die out on it's own accord. You can't download anything if there's not people uploading it first.
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st7860
join:2004-05-13
San Francisco, CA
| reply to evilghost
said by evilghost :The Storm worm is a P2P botnet, it uses P2P traffic to control the zombies. It is P2P traffic, snort sees it as e-donkey with some of the latest variants I've had a chance to inspect. All these chittorrent users who scream injustice, what exactly are you legally downloading? its spelled Bittorrent |
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evilghost
Premium
join:2003-11-22
Springville, AL | See »en.wiktionary.org/wiki/chit, Etymology 4. |
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