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PeteC2
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join:2002-01-20
Bristol, CT
clubs:
 ·AT&T Yahoo
| reply to Max Signal
Re: Best Notebook computer brand?
M.S. No "great debate"...just the facts. I only mentioned this because you do see so much misleading garbage on notebooks concerning the "components", when simply stated...they all pretty much use the same components inside. Was Sager the first to offer a 7200rpm drive? I don't know, however, as soon as the 7200rpm 2.5" form-factor drives appeared on the market, all the higher-end gaming laptop makers adopted them. If they got the jump, it wasn't by much...
That was my point from the get-go...there really are no "superior" notebook computer brands (I know that this is heresy to the "fan-boys" out there!)...just some superior individual computers. There are no "great" $500 laptops...$500 just doesn't buy "great", and almost all $2K+ laptops are "great" or pretty close to it...I have yet to see a "bad" $2K+ notebook out there in today's competitive market.
I would buy based on desired features, including "ruggedness", placement of ports, and yes even "looks/case design", at the best price currently available...but "brand?" Not really, it just does not mean all that much. About the only exception to that, to me, would be Apple, because if you like their OS, there's only one way to get it, but not because they make an intrinsically "better" laptop. Apple's only advantage aside from OS, is that they simply do not market a "budget" notebook, the least expensive MacBook starting at around $1100 USD.
Notice that I specifically did not mention Customer Service! There may be a "gem" or two out there, but I rather doubt it, based on what I have seen on the manufacturers web sites. HP? I've had everything from great, to downright horrible CS, and Dell, Sony, Toshiba, Acer, Alienware, and yes Apple have had their fair share of hits and misses as well. Perhaps this is where a smaller company might have an advantage, but no one's customer service has been consistently superior.
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...something is happening here but you don't know what it is...do you, Mr. Jones? | |
insomx
Premium
join:2003-01-26
Canada | reply to gate1975mlm
Apple. | |
Max Signal
Premium
join:2008-03-07
Buffalo, NY
 ·Verizon FIOS
| reply to PeteC2
Well he is the most knowledgeable computer guy I know and he was very impressed. At the time they were the only company putting in 7200 speed hard drives not 4200 or 5400 like others . I did not come here looking to start any sort of great debate . Just passed on my knowledge and opinion on the question asked . I am not an owner or even a sales agent for Sager. So there is no argument , You win , I give up , LOL
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www.MaximumSignal.Net | |
PeteC2
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| reply to Max Signal
said by Max Signal  :The component issue was not my observation . I have a very close friend who is an IT guy at The Pentagon . When I got my first Sager about 7 years ago now . He took it for a few days to check it out and tweak it for me . When he brought it back to me , he made the comment how impressed he was with the components they used . Well, he could be Billy Gates (writer pauses to cross himself  ), however, what I said is just plain old every day common sense, seriously, no insult to your friend intended.
What possible components are in a Sager, that are not in every single other laptop? Are not their CPUs either Intel, or AMD? Are not the graphics subsytems either integrated Intel/AMD/Nvidia, or discrete AMD/Nvidia? Is the ram from some other-wordly maker...or from one of the mainstream ram producers? How about the hard drives...again, only a very few manufacturers here...OK, maybe the display panel? Nope, again, another mainstream supplier. And so it goes.
Don't get me wrong, this is no "swipe" at Sager, hell, they make some models that I would br proud to own! However, it is just flat out incorrect to tout theit "components" as being somehow superior to what you can find from HP, Dell, Sony, Apple, etc., because they are not.
Again, the bottom line really lies in how much you are willing to pay. Intel makes awesome Core Duo and Quad CPUs...and so also do they make bottom-feeding Celerons...and Sager uses both these components. Buy a "cheap" Sager, and you have a budget laptop, with budget components...buy a high-end HP/Compag/Sony/Dell (or Sager)...and you've got a high end laptop with some very nice "components". It really is that simple.
Sure, design and careful matching of those "common" components can make some difference, and I am not saying that all laptops are "the same"...however, I do maintain that price is a more accurate predictor of laptop quality and longevity that brand name.
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...something is happening here but you don't know what it is...do you, Mr. Jones? | |
Max Signal
Premium
join:2008-03-07
Buffalo, NY
·Verizon FIOS
| reply to PeteC2
The component issue was not my observation . I have a very close friend who is an IT guy at The Pentagon . When I got my first Sager about 7 years ago now . He took it for a few days to check it out and tweak it for me . When he brought it back to me , he made the comment how impressed he was with the components they used .
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www.MaximumSignal.Net | |
PeteC2
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| reply to Max Signal
said by Max Signal :Sager . They use great components and every computer is made to order WWW.Sagernotebook.com Sager does make some very nice notebooks, but "They use great components" is a bit off.
What components do Sager's feature, that are not used by virtually every other manufacturer?
You can buy a Sager with a Celeron processor...80gb hard drive...1gb ram...and of course, you can buy one with the latest and greatest CPUs, video cards, etc....but nothing that can not be found with other companies...it comes down to how much you are willing to fork out.
Every Sager is not "made to order" any more than a Dell, or HP, which feature the same ordering options, such as CPU/HD size/graphics support/memory etc. Again, though, the more you are willing to shell out, the greater the "customization".
BTW, don't get me wrong: There is nothing wrong with that! - Honest! Simply put, you get what you pay for. If you spend $700 on a notebook computer, no matter who builds it...Dell, HP, Acer, Sony, Sager...you got yourself a $700 notebook! Surprisingly, that can buy you a lot of computer now days, but, there are compromises to meet that price-point...and again, nothing wrong with that either, as long as one understands the limitations that low price entails.
Now, most folks who think of Sager's, think of the high-end models...but you can buy high end HP/Compaqs, Dells, Sonys, Sagers, and you are going to have a well-built, high capability machine...no secret formula there...they all build some nice laptops at the higher priced end of the scale.
Apple has a funny kind of "advantage" over Dell, HP, Acer, and Sony. They do not market any "budget" line notebooks...period! Because of this, Apple gets kudos for building "quality" notebooks. Not that they do not, but when you keep a minimum price-point of $1199 for a notebook with only an 80gb hard drive and integrated graphics, obviously you can build a very solidly constructed notebook!
To build $500 - $700 notebooks, with desired features, and it is simply astounding what can now be done for $500!, well, it just astonishes me that some folks will compare 'em to $1200 - $2500 notebooks, and then call them "junk"! 
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...something is happening here but you don't know what it is...do you, Mr. Jones? | |
Max Signal
Premium
join:2008-03-07
Buffalo, NY | reply to gate1975mlm
Sager . They use great components and every computer is made to order
WWW.Sagernotebook.com
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www.MaximumSignal.Net | |
Kiwi
Premium
join:2003-05-26
USA
 ·Comcast
·Aristotle Internet
| reply to yazdzik
Re: Desktop replacement laptop
I'm still looking 
Reconfigured options.
Sager NP5793
17" WSXGA+(1680x1050)
Silver trim~
nVidia Geforce 8800M GTX w/512MB
Intel Core2 Duo T8300 2.4GHz w/3MB L2 On-die cache.
XP Pro
2GB DDR/667 Dual Channel Memory
160GB SATA 3Gb/s 7,200 RPM HD (8MB cache)
DVD+/-R/RW CD-R/RW
Additional 8-cell Smart LI-Ion battery
HUM Ground loop
12V Auto Adapter
2,624.00
Sager NP9262 -Raid based, I don't need.
17" WSXGA+ (1680x1050)
nVIDIA Geforce 8800M GTX w/512MB
Intel Core2 Duo E6850 3.0 Processor w/4M L2 Cache~1333 FSB
XP Pro
2GB DDR2/800
DVD (As above)
160GB SATA 3gb/s 7,200 RPM HD (8MB cache)
Additional 8-cell Smart LI-Ion battery
HUM Ground loop
$ 3,079.00
SONY VGN-AR770 Configure-to-Order
LCD 17"WUXGA (XBRITE-HiColor™)
Intel Core 2 Duo Processor T8300 (2.4GHZ)
WLAN 802.11 a/b/g/n w/Integrated Bluetooth®
DVD±R DL / DVD±RW / DVD-RAM Drive
400GB (200GB x 2 @ 7200RPM) SATA Hard Disk Drive
4 GB DDR-SDRAM (DDR2-667, 2 GBx2)
Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate
Extended Battery (BPL9)
$2,709.99
I'll have to add the Sony AR 150 my Daughter has for school works very well and that was a heads up from dadkins back a year ago and she plays games to boot! I know some get tired of a brand push, but I can tell anyone that a Sony won't make you a sad camper at all! I just need a more intensive video solution if I'm going for a laptop and I do like the idea of XP Pro verse VISTA. I know it's really possible to get a decent Sony without VISTA, but for my needs, in this particular case I do need a better video solution. In that it's a true Desktop replacement.
yazdzik I do understand components and appreciate your input. I can't find reference to the latest and greatest video solution past the 8800M card though, for a laptop. Quad core are for those that think they are getting something Unless of course they have the bucks to part for a 1333FSB chip.
Cheers
| |
yazdzik
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join:2000-07-26
Honesdale, PA
·New York Connect
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to Kiwi
Sager are top notch machines - I buy sager whenever I can, and the machine in question is very nice for the price, albeit I am not sure I would not prefer the nvidia fx 1600 card for video editing. That being said, the 8700 card is really enough, and, as to unix like systems, I ran debian on my sager for three years, before my daughter absconded with it.
Cinelerra eats memory, and 4 gig is needed, although I have no idea what windows video editors need.
I have to say there is another model, 9262 which for about the same price uses the 6850 processor and the 8800 gpu. That having been said, the 8800 is porbably overkill for anything one would ever really do....
Avoid the quad core chips, as few programmes use the extra threading, and some reason to believe that this may slow things down.
At any rate, the sager kit are, in my experience, ulstra durable and reliable, and their tech support first rate.
best,
Martin | |
Kiwi
Premium
join:2003-05-26
USA
·Comcast
·Aristotle Internet
| reply to gate1975mlm
Re: Best Notebook computer brand?
I'm going to add this site, though rather informative and in depth, they certainly lack updated material. If it's a Sony nothing less than an AR series will do, Sager appears like the next or equal game in town.
»www.notebookreview.com/reviews/
»www.notebookreview.com/default.a···sID=4056
Sager NP5791 Review
"With the 8-cell battery, I was pleased to get 2 hours and 40 minutes of battery life. I surfed the Internet and edited text files the entire time with the brightness on level 3 out of 7 (7 being the highest). Needless to say I am impressed with the result because let us not forget this unit is housing a 2.2GHz Core 2 Duo processor, 17-inch screen, 512MB video card, and 7200RPM hard drive. The relatively long battery time is an unexpected bonus with this machine."
Pros:
Top notch build quality
Powerful performance
Gorgeous display
Unique looks
Reasonable price tag
Available with Windows XP
Measurable battery life
Runs cool
Cons:
Loud fans
Only one internal hard drive
Odd keyboard/number pad layout
Sony VAIO SZ6 User Review
Pro:
powerful, you won't miss your desktop
bright, white, color saturated and crystal clear display
decent battery life far better than average
form factor, light and thin
solid and well made, touch and feel
Con:
No built-in DVI and TV-out, only VGA (docking station and NVIDIA Speed Mode necessary for DVI)
keyboard noise reduced WLAN signal reception with closed lid, no Draft N Wi-Fi for European models power button not reachable without having to open the lid VISTA/driver glitches (display driver forgets dual monitor settings, display resolutions, desktop icon positions; slow file copy/access speed, sleep and hibernation modes often result in reboots).
Preinstalled bloatware
No Microdrive/Compact Flash (CF) Type II slot (useful for the coherence between D-SLRs and the SZ)
I went window shopping yesterday, no store had a 17" Sony at all and even more interestingly nearly all the laptops sold where sub $1,000 (entry level rigs). I would have thought technology and access to it would have firmly planted ranges from the $500+ offered to around $1,600+ at least. Not one store had a "I'll bait you" laptop with a medium to high end system. | |
PeteC2
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join:2002-01-20
Bristol, CT
clubs:
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| reply to Kiwi
Re: Desktop replacement laptop
said by Kiwi :Thanks for the input Pete Oh, BTW just to clarify, I do completely agree with your statement regards one or two lemons, or a bad batch. Unfortunately I'm discussing an eight year period and multiple batches of large orders of both PC and laptops [Like 3.1 million dollars per order]. PDA's as well, but don't appear problematic, I couldn't fix one either if it was a problem. If I had probems with any brand on that extensive a basis...then I am sure I would avoid it as well!
Over the years, I have had some fairly consistent exposure to certain brands of computers, but have not really had any as distinct/consistent with problems as you have experienced.
I do not actually have a lot of experience with Dell computers at all. Used a few here and there, but never owned one or had one that was a "fleet" machine (either in the military or with my current employer).
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...something is happening here but you don't know what it is...do you, Mr. Jones? | |
Kiwi
Premium
join:2003-05-26
USA
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| reply to PeteC2
Thanks for the input Pete
Oh, BTW just to clarify, I do completely agree with your statement regards one or two lemons, or a bad batch. Unfortunately I'm discussing an eight year period and multiple batches of large orders of both PC and laptops [Like 3.1 million dollars per order]. PDA's as well, but don't appear problematic, I couldn't fix one either if it was a problem. | |
PeteC2
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join:2002-01-20
Bristol, CT
clubs:
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| reply to Kiwi
Kiwi, the Sager has a very good reputation, however, like almost all brands, really, you get what you pay for! Sager does even build some low-cost models, that while decent, are not anything that I would buy, including Celeron models with Windows Vista...a very poor combination, IMHO!
However, the model that you are looking at? Well, it ain't cheap...but I sure as hell would be happy to own one! 
Now, did you notice that you can order it with Windows XP Pro, if you really dislike Vista? Personally, I like Vista, and this model Sager will make it fly, but, if you do not want Vista, it is only $35 additional to have XP Pro pre-installed...and that is $35 well-spent! Many notebook owners have learned the hard way that changing the pre-installed OS can be surprisingly "painful"!
HP and Dell (I know you do not like Dell though) also have options in some of their models to select XP versus Vista.
I am kind of sanguine about "brands", because almost all of them have had successful models...and then a lemon or two, and it is too easy to get either over-loyal, or over-negative based on limited experience. For example, we used to use Toshiba Staellites where I work, and we had an entire "batch" of 'em that had problematic inverter boards...so everyone (including me) got the impression that Toshibas were "junk". Yet, I would wager that there are many very satisfied Toshiba owners, who have never had a single issue with their laptops...
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...something is happening here but you don't know what it is...do you, Mr. Jones? | |
Kiwi
Premium
join:2003-05-26
USA
·Comcast
·Aristotle Internet
| reply to gate1975mlm
I'll repeat the question the OP asked, it's now half way through Feb, 2008 and life can change with technology these days in a blink of an eye.
Have always built my PC systems, during the day I'm supporting [Hell, I lost count] THOUSANDS of PC's and laptops and all are DELLS, I would never, ever, buy a DELL; nor Alienware owned by DELL, increasing the price just won't cut it; it's still a DELL.
I bought my Daughter a Sony AR150 a year ago and it's been fantastic, acts like it was bought yesterday, never had to break the case on it!
Hate to do it, but it's seriously time, I had PC parts all picked out and then decided I really need to take a look at laptops before making that decision.
What I'm looking for must be reliable No brainer request, eh. 17" LCD and 'n' wireless capable. I have speced out two:
VGN-AR770 custom for $2,279.00, can't find a reference to the video though and does not offer the Robson chip. Known reliability though.
Sager NP5793 $2,583.00, but have no idea about reliability, specs are super nice and as an idea ~
17" 1920x1200 WUXGA
8700M GT/512
2.4 Core 2 Duo
4g DDR2
[1g Intel memory-Robson]
160g SATA/3g/Sec 7200rpm
DVD writer
[Cringe] Vista Ultimate, as the OS is a separate item, Linux looks like a possibility, if so desired; or any other OS.
The Segar appears listed for gaming, but much the same requirements are for what I want, video editing.
Anyway, anyone with customized laptop experiences?
Desktop replacement for video work, VPN and will use AT&T cell 3g hook for the lake. Of course programing, but for that I'll add an external detachable drive.
Might be interesting, might not!
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384 BC. | |
err0r67
join:2008-02-18 | reply to gate1975mlm
Re: Best Notebook computer brand?
Lenovo ftw. They're rocks solid, and something about IBM's notebooks that make them still look good when they're 10yrs old. | |
Sureshot
Cellar Dweller
Premium
join:2000-08-15
Lake Mills, WI
clubs: | reply to gate1975mlm
Another Acer vote here. Two Acer Aspire 5610Z's, an Acer Aspire 5570Z, and an Acer Travelmate 4000 bought from a member here. I love all of them. | |
TDOG
join:2000-04-30
Louisville, KY | reply to robnelle
Yes...Sager
»www.sagernotebook.com/default.php | |
PeteC2
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join:2002-01-20
Bristol, CT
clubs:
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| reply to NgtFlyer
Where I work, we have had Toshiba Sat. for years, and although generally serviceable, did not seem all that well constructed...lots of little "issues".
In the last couple of years we have switched over to Compaqs (HP's "low end", of course),low-cost units, and they have held up surprisingly well.
IMHO, a lot of this however remains in the hands of the end-user...I do not beat up on my laptops, and although they travel with me daily, don't take a lot of abuse. Frankly, in years of schlepping them around, I have never dropped one.
My wife has a Sony Vaio (thin & light) notebook that has held up just beautifully, and I currently have (personal, not work) a HP "Entertaiment" model notebook. I can see where someone might need a truly "rugged" notebook for specific applications/environments, but otherwise? I have used and "checked out" quite a few different brands of notebooks, and to me, most of them were really more similar than not. In fact, I have found more of a difference based on configuration (processor/ram/HD/optical drive etc.), even within the same brand, than from different makers.
The other issue seems to be service, and again, this is a tricky area, as one's personal experience, good or bad, will tend to color one's judgement on a global scale! In other words, one good, or bad interaction with customer service or a technician, may make one either too positive, or too negative towards the company's service as a whole.
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...something is happening here but you don't know what it is...do you, Mr. Jones? | |
NgtFlyer
join:2000-07-09
Marietta, GA
| reply to Boricua65
Here's another thought to add to this post.. I just got an old Thinkpad 600 laptop from a friend.. retired because it's just old and the battery is basically shot. The laptop still works. It was used daily for almost 5 years and has sat for awhile. It booted right into Windows 2000. I'm replacing the hard drive with a larger one and plan to upgrade ram. Might put Ubunto on it.
Everything on that Thinkpad is still tight, even the screen hinges.
Meanwhile, I have a newer Dell Lattitude that is falling apart after just 3 years of daily office and travel use. | |
Boricua65
join:2002-01-26
Puerto Rico
| reply to bcruze
said by bcruze :Dell. dell parts are more readily available than ANY other manufactor everyone has parts that go bad. not all of them have replacement parts avail I beg to differ. I haven't had any problems getting parts for the Thinkpads I've worked on. My primary location for parts is of course eBay, but I've found parts in other online stores. | |
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