Dr Basil Ganglia
@bell.ca
 from:
Tzale 
joako
| How "traffic shaping" will negatively impact neuroscience:
Hi,
I do neurocognitive research at one of Montreal's finer research institutions, and most of my work relies heavily on the usual brain imaging technologies [MRI, CT, and MEG (magnetoencephalography)]. Techniques such as these create what are, basically, huge "pictures" - which result in massive collections of files ranging from 1 to 14GB, depending on the subject.
As of the last couple of years, it's been quite common for academics to use the bittorrent protocol to share these large files. Collaboration on research of this sort is crucial, and the distance between fellow researchers is usually vast (I'm working with peers in the UK, Finland, and the US right now). Obviously, bittorrent is far more useful than the old method of downloading via one another's archaic academic websites, or (heaven forbid!) sending disks by post. Web-based file transfer services are a hassle, and there is no "google FTP" as yet.
Torrenting is a perfectly good option - and it's been completely ruined by Bell-Sympatico's recent policy of bandwidth throttling. I've had an 'Unlimited' account for the last number of years for the sole purpose of sending experimental data to-and-fro from the convenience of my home. Now, at the risk of sounding cliché, I'll finally be switching to another provider - one that can fully deliver the services promised, and will do so without slyly altering my account status at intervals. Also, I suspect I'll be reconsidering my telephone options after 15+ years of business with Bell. Several of my peers here in town are moving on for the exact same reason.
I just thought you'd like to hear from this little scholastic corner of Bell's former customer base. It's not just crappy prøn and Hollywood flicks that are being strangulated... ...and, frankly, it's none of Bell's concern either way.
Thanks for reading!
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Dr Basil Ganglia
@bell.ca
| PS: Could someone please copy/post this message over at the Bell Forums for me?
I feel as if giving them my B1# is giving them too much at this point. But if one of you fine folks is already registered there... then...
Thanks again! |
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Eat My Bacon
@bell.ca
| I'm having a hard time grasping this. You're relying on a P2P protocol to host and transfer the files? Why not use FTP? Or use a Website that links to an FTP? You're obviously not concerned with any type of authentication, so why hasn't that been used?
Plus, why would you use your home connection to transfer these large files when you have access to an educational link(s) and Internet 2 to transfer the files between you? And I know the University of Montreal has VPN, so you could access the network from home to transfer to your colleagues in other academic institutions.
I'm sorry, but there are flaws here in what your claiming. |
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theninjasqua
join:2007-09-26
Oakville, ON | reply to Dr Basil Ganglia
Can you fudge one? I dont know what the validation is like for the signup form. Maybe you can make one up. |
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gord27
join:2005-05-01
Mississauga, ON
 ·TekSavvy Solutions..
1 edit | reply to Eat My Bacon
said by Eat My Bacon :
I'm having a hard time grasping this. You're relying on a P2P protocol to host and transfer the files? Why not use FTP? Or use a Website that links to an FTP? You're obviously not concerned with any type of authentication, so why hasn't that been used?
Plus, why would you use your home connection to transfer these large files when you have access to an educational link(s) and Internet 2 to transfer the files between you? And I know the University of Montreal has VPN, so you could access the network from home to transfer to your colleagues in other academic institutions.
I'm sorry, but there are flaws here in what your claiming.
it doesn't matter why he does this or whether he's telling the truth or not. the point is there are probably hundreds of people who rely on their home internet being fully functional as part of their day to day work.
this does bring up an interesting point though. does anyone know if bell business accounts are also being throttled? |
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Eat My Bacon
@bell.ca
| Of course it matters. If you're going to accuse someone of doing something you have to ensure you can back it up with facts.
And I'll I'm saying is that there are better & faster alternatives (for him/her), versus using a residential connection and BitTorrent to transfer large files.
Most people here would kill for access to the Internet 2 network and this guy/girl is using DSL to do this?!?! Talk about wasting ressources! |
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mlerner
Premium
join:2000-11-25
Nepean, ON | reply to Dr Basil Ganglia
I agree with the bacon guy. I don't see why you would be using bittorrent over FTP. |
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Dr Basil G
@bell.ca
| reply to Eat My Bacon
FTP is usually too slow and cumbersome for simultaneous downloads. Especially those that require frequent modifications/alterations/re-ups. Back when we did use to FTP, it seemed a total nuisance. Compare how google docs functions as opposed to sending pdfs back and forth, and you'll get my meaning.
VPN/PPTP is too platform-picky, and not everyone is every country can be expected to have the necessary commonality. Sometimes I'm sharing with people using Mac OS 9.2.
We started using P2P because it was the simplest option. I work from home for the exact same reason.
I hope that answers your concerns; I don't really have time to field any more of them!
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Eat My Bacon
@bell.ca
| said by Dr Basil G :I hope that answers your concerns; I don't really have time to field any more of them! How convenient...
Anyhow, I still don't understand why you perceive FTP as usually too slow and cumbersome for simultaneous downloads if you have access to your Universities unlimited bandwidth/resources and so would the other countries and FTP is a standard that works across ALL platforms. |
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DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
clubs:
·Bell Sympatico
| reply to Dr Basil G
said by Dr Basil G :FTP is usually too slow and cumbersome for simultaneous downloads. Especially those that require frequent modifications/alterations/re-ups. Back when we did use to FTP, it seemed a total nuisance. Compare how google docs functions as opposed to sending pdfs back and forth, and you'll get my meaning. VPN/PPTP is too platform-picky, and not everyone is every country can be expected to have the necessary commonality. Sometimes I'm sharing with people using Mac OS 9.2. We started using P2P because it was the simplest option. I work from home for the exact same reason. I hope that answers your concerns; I don't really have time to field any more of them! This is very interesting. Our radiologists in this area do read CT, MRI and X-rays from home. In fact, I had a CT read within minutes once in the middle of the night. CT scans can't be that small. And all we have around here is Bell 5 meg down or Rogers cable internet. I've invited some Bell folks into this discussion. You raise some very interesting points. Thank you.
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care. |
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Kardinal
Canadair CT-114 Tutor
Premium
join:2001-02-04
N of 49th
clubs:
·Bell Sympatico
| reply to Dr Basil Ganglia
said by Dr Basil Ganglia :
Hi, For those who don't know, the Basal Ganglia (notice the difference in spelling) is a part of the brain that serves as an interconnection point between different parts of it.
It's an interesting point that the OP makes, but I'm skeptical as to the validity of the claim when the poster who claims to be involved in research uses a pseudonym that is a name-like form of a brain part rather than their actual name or some other sort of username. It smells of a trolling with false info to gain a response to me......call me a cynic I guess.
--
All of us get lost in the darkness, dreamers learn to steer by the stars
All of us do time in the gutter, dreamers turn to look at the cars -- Peart/Lee/Lifeson
Join Team Helix
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TI POIL
join:2006-03-05
Toronto, ON | reply to Dr Basil Ganglia
Maybe the post is not a "real life story" but I am sure it can happen. |
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Bellunder
@teksavvy.com | reply to Dr Basil Ganglia
Looks like neuroscience will lag in this part of the world. |
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DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
clubs:
·Bell Sympatico
| reply to Kardinal
said by Kardinal :It's an interesting point that the OP makes, but I'm skeptical as to the validity of the claim when the poster who claims to be involved in research uses a pseudonym that is a name-like form of a brain part rather than their actual name or some other sort of username. It smells of a trolling with false info to gain a response to me......call me a cynic I guess. Good point. Given that universities have access to huge amounts of bandwidth and that in Ontario the system uses SSL web sites, this interesting bit does seem like misdirection.
If the OP has taken the matter up with Bell or any ISP, it would be interesting to hear their perspective.
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care. |
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theninjasqua
join:2007-09-26
Oakville, ON | To be fair, he said he works at home though sometimes. So sure he could get it fast through his works network when he is there, but if he needs to get them at his house what other choice does he have? |
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TI POIL
join:2006-03-05
Toronto, ON
·Bell Sympatico
| reply to Dr Basil Ganglia
I was just wondering....
a 4gb file for 4 downloaders,
4 downloaders trough ftp
or 3 seeders at %100 each and 1 leech.
which way would put less burden and be the fastest to get the file?
--
Q:WHAT'S BLUE AND WHITE AND LIVES IN THE BASEMENT??
A:Losers Even After Forty Seasons |
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theninjasqua
join:2007-09-26
Oakville, ON
| You have to assume that the torrent would be the most efficient. The seeder can seed out different pieces to each client and those clients can then seed that to the other 2 clients that don't have those pieces. So they would all be downloading off each other rather then straight from the one seed. If you have 4 downloaders going from the ftp at the same time, then they would all have to share the max upload speed of that servers connection. With the torrent, everyone shares with the upload. I think time wise it might be close, hard to say. But at least if your connection is lost, you can restart the torrent again. |
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Moonlight_x
@videotron.ca
| reply to theninjasqua
said by theninjasqua :To be fair, he said he works at home though sometimes. So sure he could get it fast through his works network when he is there, but if he needs to get them at his house what other choice does he have? Portable HDD and copy/upload/download while at work... ~25MB/s over the GbE LAN to a portable USB HDD is 20+ times as fast as the 5-10Mbps on ADSL for his own working copies. |
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bylo
Premium
join:2004-05-04
Waterloo, ON
| reply to Kardinal
said by DKS :Our radiologists in this area do read CT, MRI and X-rays from home. In fact, I had a CT read within minutes once in the middle of the night. CT scans can't be that small. And all we have around here is Bell 5 meg down or Rogers cable internet. I've invited some Bell folks into this discussion. A family member had an MRI of her head done a couple of years ago at a local lab. (Thankfully it revealed a benign meningioma.) The lab gave us a CD of the results to take to our family doctor and/or specialist. The CD included a "reader" application so that it could be viewed on any PC. IIRC the whole thing was ~50MB, which is quite a reasonable size to move around at unthrottled DSL speeds.
You raise some very interesting points. Thank you. Ditto.
As to the appropriateness of relying on DSL to do and share research, consider how many DSLReports users participate in SETI. Imagine the hue-and-cry if whatever traffic travels between those participants was getting throttled because it appeared to Bell's equipment like BT. Is SETI's work any more valuable than what Basil and his colleagues are doing? (If so, then perhaps all of SETI's work should be done on commercial T1 lines  )
said by Kardinal :For those who don't know, the Basal Ganglia (notice the difference in spelling) is a part of the brain that serves as an interconnection point between different parts of it. Full marks to Basil for cleverness. Next you'll dump on me because Bylo is the first name of Bylo Selhi (Buy low, Sell high, get it? )
I'm skeptical as to the validity of the claim when the poster who claims to be involved in research uses a pseudonym that is a name-like form of a brain part rather than their actual name or some other sort of username. I'm curious why it matters if he uses a username. You do. I do. So do those here who claim to represent Bell. We all have reasons for wanting some privacy on an open forum. I think it's far more important to consider the "validity" of someone's posts here according the quality of their contents rather than the quality of their username. Perhaps you would explain why you believe the opposite. |
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TwentyMBPS
join:2005-11-04
Toronto, ON | reply to Dr Basil Ganglia
So not only is Bell cheating customers, its trying to harm the human race as a whole now. Bunch of greedy monkeys. |
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