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chesslover17
@comcast.net
| Is Arris Telephony modem really not Comcast compatible ? I have Comcast's Triple play with two phone lines. The Comcast technician installed an Arris Touchstone Telephony modem model TM502G and everything works fine.
Hoping to save the $5/mo Comcast is charging me for the modem, I bought an exact same model, a TM502G, on eBay. I installed it, called Comcast, and asked them to provision the modem. The technician claimed that, even though the modem is the exact same model Comcast installed, Comcast cannot get the phone lines to work because the modem did not come from Comcast. He said Comcast installs a program on the modems they install.
Can anyone tell me if this is BS or if this really is true ? | |
|  mdh218
join:2005-06-28
Madison Heights, MI | Re: Is Arris Telephony modem really not Comcast compatible ? you should try posting in the Comcast forum. | |
| 
imrf
Premium
join:2002-06-06
Utica, MI | Comcast does not provision customer owned voice modems at this time. You're out of luck. The monthly rental for Comcast modems are $3 a month, FYI. | |
| 
compugeek
I love making my own beer.
Premium
join:2002-07-30
Pickerington, OH | Voice modems have never been available retail. So you basically just bought a stolen modem.
Geek
--
»www.itsnewtoyou.biz | |
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Goober
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
 ·Comcast
·WOW Internet and C..
| Re: Is Arris Telephony modem really not Comcast compatible ? Not necessarily stolen.
I get so tired of the same old "stolen" song and dance. WOW took my credit card number to charge me if I fail to return a piece of equipment in the future.
If I fail to return the equipment and WOW charges me for it, guess what? I own it. Who's to say it's not the same situation in this case? Whether WOW then activates it again for me or for someone else in the future is a different question. | |
| | | rody_44
Premium
join:2004-02-20
Quakertown, PA
·Comcast
4 edits | Re: Is Arris Telephony modem really not Comcast compatible ? but whos to say its not stolen. why would anyone pay for something they cant use? im 100 percent sure its better odds that its stolen and not payed for. take a cable box they charge 250 dollars for something that useless to me. if they charge me im returning it and getting my 250.00 back and im not putting it on ebay so i can get 50 bucks for it. same goes for modems. its stolen if its stolen from someone and its payed for by that person its still stolen. | |
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chesslover17
@comcast.net | Re: Is Arris Telephony modem really not Comcast compatible ? I appreciate all of you letting me know the technician at Comcast was not BS'ing me. Thank you.
As for whether of not the item was stolen, I plan to contact the eBay seller and see if he will take it back. Wish me luck. | |
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Madcap
Reformed Forum Troll
Premium
join:2004-06-26
Kenosha, WI
clubs: | Re: Is Arris Telephony modem really not Comcast compatible ? Where have you been living? America is taking the stand of guilty until proved innocent in 4 trials. | |
| | | | | | rody_44
Premium
join:2004-02-20
Quakertown, PA
·Comcast
1 edit | Re: Is Arris Telephony modem really not Comcast compatible ? 4 of them on ebay now and the price is 9.99. yea they are not stolen are they. 10 percent of what you would get from them for returning it. im thinking about buying some so i can get the free months cable for returning stolen property that they usually give out. »cgi.ebay.com/ARRIS-Touchstone-TM···ViewItem | |
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Goober
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
·Comcast
·WOW Internet and C..
| Re: Is Arris Telephony modem really not Comcast compatible ? said by rody_44  :4 of them on ebay now and the price is 9.99. yea they are not stolen are they. 10 percent of what you would get from them for returning it. im thinking about buying some so i can get the free months cable for returning stolen property that they usually give out. » cgi.ebay.com/ARRIS-Touchstone-TM···ViewItem Free money. Go for it if you believe in your position. | |
| | | | | | | | rody_44
Premium
join:2004-02-20
Quakertown, PA
·Comcast
3 edits | Re: Is Arris Telephony modem really not Comcast compatible ? by your theory i can go and shoplift and if i get caught i just have to pay for the stolen merchandise and everythings fine. sorry but in the real world its stolen until returned to the original owner. even when a cars stolen and recovered 5 years later the original owner gets first crack at the car if he wants it. he just has to pay a settlement to the insurance company to cover what they paid. notice the modem sold for 9.99 | |
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Goober
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
·Comcast
·WOW Internet and C..
| Re: Is Arris Telephony modem really not Comcast compatible ? You still aren't getting it. When you sign up for the service, you promise to either return the equipment or pay for it. It's contractual.
Stealing merchandise isn't contractual. The store has no agreement with you to charge your card if you walk out with merchandise for which you haven't paid.
I swear, schools should have basic contract and torts law classes for you guys before letting you out of high school. | |
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captain364
@gci.com
 from:
Cabal
| Re: Is Arris Telephony modem really not Comcast compatible ? said by Goober :You still aren't getting it. When you sign up for the service, you promise to either return the equipment or pay for it. It's contractual. Stealing merchandise isn't contractual. The store has no agreement with you to charge your card if you walk out with merchandise for which you haven't paid. I swear, schools should have basic contract and torts law classes for you guys before letting you out of high school. No, your the one who doesn't get it. You are obligated to return the equipment. Just because they charge you that does not relieve the obligation. It is still stolen property and it still is COMCAST'S property. This is pretty basic stuff in our legal system, it is the same in just about all stolen property situations. | |
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Goober
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL | Re: Is Arris Telephony modem really not Comcast compatible ? lol. I guess I wasted 13 years of my life then. Thanks for the legal advice. | |
| | | | | | | | | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
1 edit | Re: Is Arris Telephony modem really not Comcast compatible ? Goob.. you didn't waste 13 years of your life.. what you didn't probably do was look at the 'other areas' of what you spent 13 years of your life for.
I'm sure you know about laws that pertain to specific issues, right? Have you looked at the communication laws that govern the industry...? and what it says when it comes to equipment?
Cable boxes are not available for retail purchase in the US.. well, not the ones you are talking about anyway. They are always the property of the company.. what you pay for is liquidated damages.. but you still don't own the box. You didn't even pay the full price of the box.. step one, the consumer "stole" the box by not returning it. Step two, the company attempts to get it back.. ie: the box is still unreturned/stolen. Step three, they go after the sub to get it.. step four, they charge against your account - sometimes they get paid, often, they don't.
Again, that fee you are charged is not for the property.. and if you want to get technical, it's a 'fee' for not returning the equipment.. not an agreement to "sell" you the equipment.
I respect what you do.. but as you well know, you often fight your own kind and many times, ok, you ALWAYS disagree and are on opposite sides with them.. so you have to say that you don't always know what you're talking about.. well, let me restate that too.. you may know what you're talking about.. but does the man in the black robe and the walnut crusher agree with you? 
edit: you didn't promise to return it or purchase it. You also promised that you'd not remove it from the service address with out permission from the provider too. I believe that section of the contract holds weight. As for your shopping example, you violated the contract when you removed the equipment from the property. And where you get permission to move the box is if you call up and transfer service.. otherwise, if you're not going to transfer, yet move, you're then asked to bring it back, or allow the company to retrieve it. But at no time did you agree to return it or purchase it. HD DVR boxes, for example, cost about $650 to purchase.. the company charges you an unreturned equipment fee of $250. I suppose when you walk out of Wal-Mart with goods you put in your cart, but didn't purchase that when they catch up to you, you're only going to get charged 40%? | |
| | | | | | | | | | | rody_44
Premium
join:2004-02-20
Quakertown, PA
·Comcast
3 edits | what i mean is lets say person one has a modem stolen from him and person one pays comcast for the modem. the modem is still stolen property even tho person number 2 sold it on ebay. your scenario just makes no sense at all as why would person one sell it on ebay for probably 40 dollars when he could get his 250 back from a cable company. i dont think phone modems are as cheap as a regular modems but the same holds true for all leased equipment across the board. its not like someone is going to say i think i will sell it on ebay for 20 percent of the value. just no logic in your thinking. and yea once returned you get a refund. its standard policy that once the accounts shut off the sub gets billed for the modem. its also standard policy to issue a credit when returned. i dont know of any cable company that automatically charges a credit card tho for equipment and it could be reversed by the card holder anyway since its not a approved charge. | |
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Goober
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
·Comcast
·WOW Internet and C..
| Re: Is Arris Telephony modem really not Comcast compatible ? It's not Comcast's beef if the modem is stolen from a subscriber as long as the modem has been paid for. That's all this is about. Nobody cares if the first person got ripped off. That's a different issue. Comcast got it's money. It doesn't matter if the person returning it gets his money back. Even if he doesn't, Comcast has been made whole. They have no claim to the equipment unless it's in an agreement that regardless of the payment that Comcast owns rights to the property until returned at which time they will refund the money. Maybe iot's there somewhere. I have never seen that though.
A person agrees to the charges during sign up as a condition of service. I did with WOW. I don't think the credit card company would reverse. | |
| | | | | | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| Re: Is Arris Telephony modem really not Comcast compatible ? Goob, can't agree with your application of the law here. If what you are arguing is fact, then why isn't the cable company charging you "rent" on that equipment up until the date you allegedly "purchased" the equipment?
There's also an obligation to "rent" that equipment as long as you have it, right? To be honest, it's never been defined as to "WHEN" you are renting it.. ie: when the service is active or when you simply have possession.
In car rental companies, if you wreck the car, they consider the time the car is in the shop to be lost rental and you're held accountable for it. During that time, they may not have always rented that care, but they will charge you for it anyway.. not to mention, they rarely are ever out of rent able cars..
It COULD be argued in court and you know that...
Also.. you still missed one key point.. you never agreed to "purchase" the equipment.. you "agreed" to pay an unreturned equipment fee.. again, and you should know this.. it comes down to the words when in court.. and the words you are arguing is "did I agree to purchase it" or "did I agree to pay a penalty/fee for not returning it"...?
Cable is, and does, argue that the fee is for damages.. for the time it takes to actively collect it.. for the tech truck rolls to get it, the time and expense to put people on the phone to track you down, and finally, the group of people that have to send you to collections.
And, you, of all people, should avoid saying "that's all a cost of business and costs near nothing" when you charge for every single thing you do with your clients.. ie: I know you're billing by the minute when you talk to your clients.. so every amount of time spent working on a case/client is charged to them.. so why can't cable? | |
| p200002
join:2001-12-26
00000 | I would suggest you hook up the modem, see whether it works, | |
| | 
EG
The wings of love
Premium
join:2006-11-18
Union, NJ
| Re: Is Arris Telephony modem really not Comcast compatible ? said by p200002 :I would suggest you hook up the modem, see whether it works, said by chesslover17 :
I installed it, called Comcast, and asked them to provision the modem. The technician claimed that, even though the modem is the exact same model Comcast installed, Comcast cannot get the phone lines to work because the modem did not come from Comcast. He said Comcast installs a program on the modems they install.
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herewego
@wideopenwest.com
from:
Cabal
| Goober, its most likely stolen becasue what the cable company charges for equipment not returned is far more than someone is going to buy it for on ebay. doesnt make sense. | |
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Goober
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
·Comcast
·WOW Internet and C..
| Re: Is Arris Telephony modem really not Comcast compatible ? Very well may be. But, it isn't necessarily so.
I remember when I was living in the dorms in undergrad, my roommate owed me money, but was flunking out. He left me a bunch of stuff as debt repayment, since he just wanted to get out of there and go home. Some of the stuff was fairly valuable. Who knows what the circumstances are of people.
And, all the Comcast charges may not be terribly out of line. Comcast screwed up my account and wanted to charge me for my own cable modem. How much? $50.00. Not terribly out of line. | |
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contractor
@comcast.net
from:
EG
| Re: Is Arris Telephony modem really not Comcast compatible ? goober you can twist it any way you want but the bottom line is that arris modem will not be making any phone calls on the comcast network period. its not worth 10 cents. i see them in apartments all the time. people just run up their bills and vacate leaving all that equiptment behind. or its stolen. even if you legitmately got 1 somehow, comcast does not do self install on phone equipment because of 911 issues. they want their phone service hooked up and tested by their techs. a cable modem is different . if it was previously a customer owned modem or bought from a store they will activate it. if it comes back stolen or on another account they wont. | |
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Goober
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL | Re: Is Arris Telephony modem really not Comcast compatible ? Learn to read. I never said CC would activate it. But, that's a different inquiry from whether the equipment is stolen. This is not that difficult. | |
| | | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| said by contractor :
...comcast does not do self install on phone equipment because of 911 issues. they want their phone service hooked up and tested by their techs.
Not entirely true.. there are Comcast markets that are allowing self installs.. and you can even purchase the equipment and own it too. As time goes on, all markets will allow it. | |
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TD Nickell
Premium,MVM
join:2006-09-26
Federal Way, WA
clubs:
| Re: Is Arris Telephony modem really not Comcast compatible ? said by fiberguy :said by contractor :
...comcast does not do self install on phone equipment because of 911 issues. they want their phone service hooked up and tested by their techs.
Not entirely true.. there are Comcast markets that are allowing self installs.. and you can even purchase the equipment and own it too. As time goes on, all markets will allow it. You are correct fiberguy ,but i don't think its a good idea. 
Have to see how it goes! 
»Comcast Self-Install VoIP Kits | |
| | | | | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| Re: Is Arris Telephony modem really not Comcast compatible ? I agree.. I think it's a HORRIBLE idea.. It will ultimately, in my opinion, make a bad mark on comcast for having a poor quality phone service.
i'm still a digital phone sub and enjoy it. Minnesota is powering down the switch on or about January 10th so I have to say good bye to Digital Phone and move to Digital Voice.
CDV WILL ultiamtely become compared, even more, to the likes of Vonage and the fact that self installs will throw quality control out the door, I really don't think it will be taken as serious any more as a telephone service - especially at this price.
BUT, at LEAST it's still a 'managed' service with support trucks to back it up. | |
| | cracker 52
join:2007-01-23
Atlanta, GA
1 edit | Excellent point herewego. I would think even the most boneheaded people would realize that it would a lot more beneficial, financially, to return the equipment and get the full refund than to go through the trouble of selling it on E-Bay for mere pittance.
It is also presumptuous to think that cable companies necessarily have all of their customers' credit card numbers (active ones anyway)to recoup costs of unreturned equipment. Comcast doesn't have mine, as none was used to set up service or to pay the monthly charges. Also, I personally know that cable and utility companies continually sell plenty of charged-off consumer debt to distressed debt collection companies. | |
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Goober
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
·Comcast
·WOW Internet and C..
1 edit | Fiberguy, I agree with most of your points. But, I look at this as basic contract law. Communications law doesn't really figure into this much. That being said, I'm fairly knowledgeable in that area, although not as much as I used to be about 6 years ago. I worked for Mot and specifically General Instrument during and after the acquisition.
Anyway, based on what I as a general consumer experience, I can make a good faith argument that I own the equipment. Simply, when I sign up for service, WOW (since that's who signed up with lately) tells me on the phone that they need a credit card on which they can charge me $XX.XX if I don't return the equipment. That's it. They don't ask me, and I don't verbally agree, to anything else. I'm never told that they continue to own the equipment even after I pay the fee. They don't tell me that it's a liquidated damages fee or a cost recovery fee, etc.
As a consumer, how am I supposed to know that once my card has been charged for $XX.00 for the box that I still have to return it to them?
That very well may be the cable co's assumption, but they don't communicate that to me.
We may be in a sense arguing the same side here. I'm not disagreeing with much of your premises. And, you may and likely are correct. But, where do I explicitly agree to the cable co's conditions? Where do they explain to me the terms of the deal?
If it's a contract of adhesion (which it necessarily has to be), then they better darn well make me aware of everything for which I'm signing up. | |
| rody_44
Premium
join:2004-02-20
Quakertown, PA
·Comcast
4 edits | well you must be in a minority on the credit card being needed for being serviced. ide think a cable company would go out of business real fast with them stipulations. but it all comes back to a stolen item can be sold ten times over and it still belongs to the original owner. and in fact its a stolen item once not returned. even if its damaged and you pay for it its still gets returned to the cable company.
»www.comcast.com/MediaLibrary/1/1···d_18.pdf i guess section 6 is what your looking for | |
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See 8 replies to this post | |
tshirt
Premium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA | Goober,
It is a deposit.
similar to paying a deposit to a landlord when renting or leasing an apt. or house. It certainly doesn't include the full value of the property/potential damages nor is it an offer to sell. | |
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Goober
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
·Comcast
·WOW Internet and C..
| Re: Is Arris Telephony modem really not Comcast compatible ? said by tshirt : Goober, It is a deposit. similar to paying a deposit to a landlord when renting or leasing an apt. or house. It certainly doesn't include the full value of the property/potential damages nor is it an offer to sell. I don't see that in the agreement. The section of paragrph 6 that I quoted above seems to pretty explicitly state that they are going to seek full damages, including equipment costs and related recover costs.
Also, I don't see any language whatsoever regarding deposits, etc. | |
| | | rody_44
Premium
join:2004-02-20
Quakertown, PA
·Comcast
4 edits | Re: Is Arris Telephony modem really not Comcast compatible ? now your making things up. where does it say full damages?
it says a fee for not returning it. copy and paste where you see that. if you were a lawyer you wouldnt even be argueing your point. it says your responsible but it doesnt say that is what the fee is for. | |
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Goober
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
·Comcast
·WOW Internet and C..
2 edits | Re: Is Arris Telephony modem really not Comcast compatible ? said by rody_44 : now your making things up. where does it say full damages? it says a fee for not returning it. copy and paste where you see that. "You will be directly responsible for loss, repair, replacement and other costs, damages, fees and charges if you do not return the Comcast Equipment to us in an undamaged condition."
if you were a lawyer you wouldnt even be argueing your point.
Uh, okay? | |
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tshirt
Premium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
·Comcast
3 edits | said by Goober :said by tshirt : Goober, It is a deposit. similar to paying a deposit to a landlord when renting or leasing an apt. or house. It certainly doesn't include the full value of the property/potential damages nor is it an offer to sell. I don't see that in the agreement. The section of paragrph 6 that I quoted above seems to pretty explicitly state that they are going to seek full damages, including equipment costs and related recover costs. Also, I don't see any language whatsoever regarding deposits, etc. it is a deposit.
as a landlord, I cannot expect a deposit in the total value of a property, let alone the cost of cleanup of a tenant caused problem (i.e. drug lab residue, fire cleanup, etc( if they had that kind of money they could buy a nicer house for cash) )
however the deposit is to coerce (most reasonable people) to return said property, in the same condition as delivered, minus "Normal" wear and tear (i.e. normal usage for the implied purpose of a object) the deposit doesn't pay the full value (plus recovery costs) of the object, and withholding the deposit (with proper notice) does not release ownership (or the right to recover the cost of recovery, repair, replacement or prosecution.
YOU may not like their (CC's) contract, under tort law an offended party may file suit. OR if YOU think CC has shown willful disregard of common law and /or consumer regulations YOU could possibly find/solicit enough offend party's to file a class action (you'd be "ambulance chasing " to solicit client to pursue your own opinions )
CC contracts are somewhat vague, but as their lawyers see fit, (good luck with your claim in the real world). | |
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Goober
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
·Comcast
·WOW Internet and C..
2 edits | Re: Is Arris Telephony modem really not Comcast compatible ? Show me the language that indicates it's a deposit.
All the other stuff you said must be too complex for me, because it seemed like a bunch of immaterial nonsense. Landlord tenant law is completely different than contract law and the UCC.
And, why are you going on about torts and ambulance chasing? | |
| 
cypherstream
Looking forward to the future of things.
Premium,MVM
join:2004-12-02
Reading, PA
clubs:
| Hey guys,
I'm going to stay out of the whole legal / ethics debate, but I do have a question regarding customer owned equipment.
Why is it that in the U.S. the only customer owned cable equipment legally obtainable anywhere (Brick & Morter, small shop, or even E-bay), is a Cable modem?
Why in Canada do even big box retailers sell Scientific Atlanta and Motorola digital cable set top boxes and DVR's? Even after the FCC's useless Separable security mandate, we still do not see the new remodeled set tops (sans cable card) at any stores?
Is it possible that an eMTA from E-Bay could of been legally purchased in another country such as Canada, or any other country that uses the 6 MHz DOCSIS 54-870 MHz forward path standard?
If in fact a eMTA was legally purchased, would Comcast activate the 'internet' portion of the modem? Why not the phone portion? Is it a matter of tight quality control while CDV is in it's infancy? How does this policy compare to competitors such as Vonage, Verizon VoiceWing, Packet8, ViaTalk, etc.. ?
Thanks, just curious. Even if you don't know, your general opinions would be great. | |
| mjh001
join:2002-09-10
Forked River, NJ
| More to the point, Comcast will not setup a ATA device they did'nt provide to you, plain and simple fact is that their techs cant add in the MAC address and confirm that the equptment is running their firmware or that it can even have their image tftped to it, as far as the stolen or not stolen bs, there is a lot MSO type hardware all over the net, most of ti is not stolen, most is decomissioned, dumpster dived, or perhaps even bought through resellers, most of what the providers are useing can be bought openly, however there is no thing to say they will activate your ata, set top box (laws are coming soon that one though to allow it), DVR/Te-vo or even you modem however they do... in any event the device they provide it simple an ATA and a Cable modem with a battery backup in one unit, the ATA is locked to comcast, however can be unlocked to work with other BYOD type providers or even your own IP/PBX system, and they will work well. | |
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EG
The wings of love
Premium
join:2006-11-18
Union, NJ
| Re: Is Arris Telephony modem really not Comcast compatible ? said by mjh001 :in any event the device they provide it simple an ATA and a Cable modem with a battery backup in one unit, Whatever it's worth, technically, the device is considered to be an eMTA.
--
Happy Holidays ! | |
| 
gar187er
Premium Alcoholic
join:2006-06-24
Dover, DE
| i dont care if you claim to be Starr Joes, fact is CDV will never use customer owned equipment, because then whos liable if something doesnt work?!?! comcast!??! or the person you bought it from on ebay?!?! Phone is a lifeline.....do you want a POS EMAT that is either stolen or picked out of a dumpster?!?
the reason its stolen (yes it is) is that they are not sold to the public, period....so its belongs to a cable company....end of story..... | |
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Goober
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL | Re: Is Arris Telephony modem really not Comcast compatible ? I guess since you say it's the end of story, it must be. Your wisdom is appreciated. | |
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gar187er
Premium Alcoholic
join:2006-06-24
Dover, DE | Re: Is Arris Telephony modem really not Comcast compatible ? your welcome.....its the least a cable tech can do for you!!!  | |
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