Dogfather
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2 edits | It's good but not great
I picked up a refurbed Apple TV (which Apple ended up sending a new one I guess because of low refurbed stock) simply because of the limited library available from Microsoft (over the X360).
But for the majority of people I think it's still too expensive just to rent or buy movies. People will continue sticking with Blockbuster. As popular as sites like YouTube are, they aren't "mainstream" the way Blockbuster type rental stores are mainstream. IOW, I doubt anyone is buying ATV to play YouTube on their TV set.
For ATV to take off I think they'll need some DVR functionality which to have any success would mean going to CableLabs for CableCard hardware certification. And even then you're just getting on par with hardware already in existence (HD TiVo, the motorola boxes, etc).
Then there's the issue of providers cracking down on bandwidth.
»bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/1···chnology
The movie rentals addition was a good feature, but I don't think it's enough to make AppleTV a "hit". |
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Mike
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join:2000-09-17
Pittsburgh, PA
clubs:   | What's so hard about 1080i?
720p = no thanks. |
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Dogfather
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3 edits | said by Mike  :What's so hard about 1080i? 720p = no thanks. Bandwidth and video horsepower required to run it.
1280x720P is only 4-5GB for a flick and easier to process than 1440 or 1920x1080i. As compression technology improves so that movie sizes can come down, I'm sure we'll see future ATV type devices doing 1080i or even 1080P. |
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RadioDoc
58ef2c0
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join:2000-05-11
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| said by Dogfather :I'm sure we'll see future ATV type devices doing 1080i or even 1080P. There already here. It's called TiVo. Apple is way late to this game. My Series 3 HD can rent movies from Amazon. What is Apple bringing to the table?
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Toolmaster of La Grange. |
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Dogfather
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4 edits | I was unaware that Unbox movies were 1080i. I thought they were all MPEG2 SD "DVD quality" movies and there were no titles available in HD resolutions.
If Amazon doesn't offer HD titles, the only thing Apple TV is bringing that TiVo+Unbox isn't is what Microsoft already does, 720P HD rentals.
Meanwhile it's a WAY smaller step for TiVo+Amazon to offer 720P than it is for Apple to add something like CableCard support and DVR functions that TiVo already has for less than $100 more than ATV. |
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Greg_Z
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join:2001-08-08
Springfield, IL
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| reply to Mike
»support.apple.com/specs/appletv/···_TV.html
•H.264 and protected H.264 (from iTunes Store): Up to 5 Mbps, Progressive Main Profile (CAVLC) with AAC-LC audio up to 160 Kbps (maximum resolution: 1280 by 720 pixels at 24 fps, 960 by 540 pixels at 30 fps) in .m4v, .mp4, and .mov file formats.
•iTunes Store purchased video: 320 by 240 pixels, 640 by 480 pixels, 720 by 480 pixels (anamorphic), or high-definition 720p.
•MPEG-4: Up to 3 Mbps, Simple Profile with AAC-LC audio up to 160 Kbps (maximum resolution: 720 by 432 pixels at 30 fps) in .m4v, .mp4, and .mov file formats.
TV compatibility
•Compatible with enhanced-definition or high-definition widescreen TVs capable of 1080p/1080i 60/50Hz, 720p 60/50Hz, 576p 50Hz (PAL format), or 480p 60Hz, including popular models from these manufacturers: HP, Hitachi, JVC, LG, Mitsubishi, NEC, Olevia, Panasonic, Philips, Pioneer, Polaroid, Samsung, Sony, Sharp, Toshiba, Vizio, Westinghouse. |
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RadioDoc
58ef2c0
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join:2000-05-11
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| reply to Dogfather
The question was about 1080i/p equipment. TiVo can do that right now, and does. The content will come. You think Amazon doesn't have the resources to do that?
The Apple TV and XBOX are not DVRs, either. Apple needs to get on the ball and add that functionality (it's not that hard, but will require additional hardware) if they expect it to grow. Currently it's the bastard stepchild of the product line.
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Pictor Guy
join:2004-06-21
Sammamish, WA
| reply to Mike
said by Mike :What's so hard about 1080i? 720p = no thanks. You do realize that most TVs today (even 1080p sets) can't really display more than about 800 lines of resolution well? I'm all for 1080p and even have adopted Blu-Ray early because of the higher resolution of the format but for downloadable rentals I think 720p is a good compromise for the next few years. |
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Dogfather
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1 edit | reply to RadioDoc
The question wasn't about equipment, it was about why Apple is only doing 720P content (even for non-ATV devices) and so far Amazon doesn't rent HD content. Resources and will are two different things. They certainly have the resources, but with so many SD TiVo boxes in the installed base compared to HD boxes, they likely aren't compelled to expedite HD rentals.
But everything else you mention I agree with. ATV won't be successful without something substantially more than VOD rentals and xfers |
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AVonGauss
Premium,MVM
join:2007-11-01
Boynton Beach, FL | reply to Pictor Guy
I think you mean 1080i... A 1080p set has a native resolution of at least 1920x1080, otherwise it's not a 1080p set...  |
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Count Zero
MD2Be
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| reply to Mike
Until this year I don't think 1080p was 'the norm' and I'm not sure that's still the case. The 55" Sony LCD I bought last year only does 720p - I think most LCDs and plasma from the last several years (excepting of course the very high end ones) only do 720p. Looks good enough to me after 20+ years of 480i TV... |
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Pictor Guy
join:2004-06-21
Sammamish, WA
| reply to AVonGauss
I mean real world (motion) 1080p.
»www.hometheatermag.com/images/ar···Vrez.jpg
Keep in mind I would still rather have a 1080p TV vs a 1080i set. but when it comes to 720p vs 1080p the issue gets a little more complicated. For source material I would still invest in 1080p if I'm owning the material (Blu-Ray for example) but for a rental it's another issue and 720p is okay for me at least until TVs get a little better. |
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alchav
join:2002-05-17
Palm Desert, CA
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|  reply to Dogfather
The only thing that AppleTV does is wet people's appetite to play Movies on a Network. Apple products are all about Apple, and this is fine for The Company, but people want more flexibility to watch, store, and play on what ever they want. Just like with Music, remember when the 8 Track or Cassette were invented, you could record what ever song or mix you wanted. This is what people want now with the Movies, the ability to record and play when ever they want on what ever they want. |
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openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA | reply to Mike
I'll take good quality 720p over 1080i any day of the week. |
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Dogfather
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| reply to alchav
Agreed. Even without something good like DVR service, it would be a much more attractive product as a media extender that supported codecs that you currently have to add as hacks (eg DivX).
If it would for example behave as a media center extender as well as do what it currently does, they would certainly sell more. And it wouldn't be strange for them to embrace Microsoft as they bent over backward for Boot Camp.
But right now it's like an iPod that ONLY plays Apple protected tracks. |
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rugby
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| reply to RadioDoc
Here's what Apple's bringing to the table:
1) your music. Got iTunes on a computer in your house? AppleTV can either sync or stream the music directly. can Tivo do that?
2) Pictures. Got iPhoto? AppleTV can sync iPhoto albums or your entire library.
3) Ease of use. No getting out the mouse to control the AppleTV. I have a windows HTPC using BeyondTV, so when I want to stream something from netflix I have to get out the mouse and hope that MS's DRM doesn't decide to lock me out (for some reason it does that with the streaming feature every now and then).
4) cross platform compatibility. Does Netflix streaming work with Macs? Does Tivo support anything advanced on Macs?
I know the AppleTV isn't fully featured and I would LOVE for Apple to buy ElGato, fix up eyeTV, and integrate the entire thing into a Mini with built-in digital tuners HOWEVER, it's not happening yet.
I use my AppleTV for hours each day for pictures, music, shows, etc. Once rentals are available on it I could even see getting a movie every now and then. I have clients who have gotten rid of their Comcast because all of the shows they want to watch and record are available through iTunes. |
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Pictor Guy
join:2004-06-21
Sammamish, WA
| reply to Dogfather
said by Dogfather :But right now it's like an iPod that ONLY plays Apple protected tracks. You do realize that the iPod and AppleTV will play non-Apple protected tracks right?  |
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foobar9idfp09sd4
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| reply to Mike
said by Mike :What's so hard about 1080i? 720p = no thanks. Because it goes great with your $200 gold-plated Monster HDMI cables, right? |
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mdrift
join:2003-08-15
Spokane, WA
| reply to Pictor Guy
said by Pictor Guy :said by Dogfather :But right now it's like an iPod that ONLY plays Apple protected tracks. You do realize that the iPod and AppleTV will play non-Apple protected tracks right? Most likely neither do. However, several hundred millions units of iPod makes it clear that most people do. |
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alchav
join:2002-05-17
Palm Desert, CA
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|  reply to rugby
said by rugby :Here's what Apple's bringing to the table: 1) your music. Got iTunes on a computer in your house? AppleTV can either sync or stream the music directly. can Tivo do that? 2) Pictures. Got iPhoto? AppleTV can sync iPhoto albums or your entire library. 3) Ease of use. No getting out the mouse to control the AppleTV. I have a windows HTPC using BeyondTV, so when I want to stream something from netflix I have to get out the mouse and hope that MS's DRM doesn't decide to lock me out (for some reason it does that with the streaming feature every now and then). 4) cross platform compatibility. Does Netflix streaming work with Macs? Does Tivo support anything advanced on Macs? I've had a Buffalo Link Theater DVD Networked Player for years that does all this with a Remote. It streams DVD quality video at 1080i from PC or Server over Ethernet. It does not play DRM protected video well, even though it does try to work with Microsoft Windows Media Connect. This unit came out years ago, and I think it is way better than AppleTV. |
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