TamaraB
Question The Current Paradigm
Premium
join:2000-11-08
Brooklyn NYC
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to dadkins
Re: Ads?
Nor do I! However, what NebuAD is going to do, is essentially inject bogus content into legit website content. It will not be possible to differentiate between adverts and legit content.
So if you allow popups from one of your favorite sites, then NebuAD can also raise popup adverts. The same goes with scripting. I allow DSLREPORTS to execute scripts, because I trust DSLREPORTS; must I now trust NebuAD? Or do I disallow DSLREPORTS, greatly diminishing it's value?
The only way around this nonsense is a greater use of TOR and other proxies.
Bob
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Motor Vessel - Tamara B.
43' Long-Range Trawler
Cape Elizebeth ME.
See her Here. |
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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
Host:
Road Runner
PC gaming GAMES
PC gaming Tech
| quote:
Nor do I! However, what NebuAD is going to do, is essentially inject bogus content into legit website content. It will not be possible to differentiate between adverts and legit content.
Technically no that's not what they're doing. They developed a technology for WISPS that was incorrectly used by one Texas ISP.
Their primary focus is behavioral advertising, which yes, has its own problems. |
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TamaraB
Question The Current Paradigm
Premium
join:2000-11-08
Brooklyn NYC
·Verizon Online DSL
| said by Karl Bode  :Technically no that's not what they're doing...... OK, so here I am surfing DSLR, the article states that NebuAd will "target" ads to me. How is that possible, unless they alter packets to my "established (Cisco-Speak)" connection with DSLR?
Bob
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Motor Vessel - Tamara B.
43' Long-Range Trawler
Cape Elizebeth ME.
See her Here. |
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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
Host:
Road Runner
PC gaming GAMES
PC gaming Tech
| The ads are delivered in much the same way traditional banner ads are now -- the ads themselves are just targeted more specifically to your interests. In other words the DPI hardware should be able to notice you're interested in Hawaii and SUVs as opposed to the Virgin Islands and compact cars, and the ads you see will reflect this.
It's not really ad delivery that's changing, it's anonymized customer surveillance that's evolving. Again, I think there's plenty of problems here too, but NebuAD is not injecting ads over the top of existing content. |
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TamaraB
Question The Current Paradigm
Premium
join:2000-11-08
Brooklyn NYC
·Verizon Online DSL
| said by Karl Bode :The ads are delivered in much the same way traditional banner ads are now -- the ads themselves are just targeted more specifically to your interests. I understand how my interests are captured. NebuAD is using DPI instead of cookies, that's clear.
It's not really ad delivery that's changing, it's anonymized customer surveillance that's evolving. Again, I think there's plenty of problems here too, but NebuAD is not injecting ads over the top of existing content.
Call me dense (because I often am), but!!! Let's say I run a site, and have contracted with an advert firm (like google's AdSense) to place ads on my site. How can NebuAD control the ad content my users see without becoming a "man in the middle"?? Don't forget, NebuAD contracts with ISPs, not content providers.
Bob
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Motor Vessel - Tamara B.
43' Long-Range Trawler
Cape Elizebeth ME.
See her Here. |
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BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
 ·Comcast
| Problem here is the isp owns the stream.
Just like Sandvine , they can forge tcp packets with DPI , it depends on how crafty they get.
I think Karl is making these devices a little nicer then they really are. And I am sure they didn't give him decent details so I don't blame him.
With DPI they can pick off a packet destined for say google. You searched for dog leashes, they will not instead of showing you the ads from google intercept and send you off to another ad. They will tack their ads onto googles.
Nice knowing this , however these devices can forge packets as well. So now they can see you blocked an ad of theirs, and go and inject a redirection on the fly so you think the ads are from google , but are being served up via a redirection from their local ad server.
I have to do this at work a lot to keep people off youtube and other sites like it. It is wrong but it's a place of business. These folks are doing the same on a isp that we pay for , not nice.
--
"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" |
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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
Host:
Road Runner
PC gaming GAMES
PC gaming Tech
| quote:
I think Karl is making these devices a little nicer then they really are.
Certainly not my intent. The potential for abuse here is vast. But injection over the top of existing advertising relationships is not happening - yet.
I'd bet you're 100% correct that ultimately Ad-blocking applications are targeted and conquered.
I also am consistently annoyed that providers whine about funding upgrades and p2p users when they're consistently finding these new revenue streams without lowering prices. |
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espaeth
Digital Plumber
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
 ·voip.ms
·Vitelity VOIP
·Callcentric
·VoiceStick
·ViaTalk
·Comcast
·Embarq
| reply to BosstonesOwn
said by BosstonesOwn :Just like Sandvine , they can forge tcp packets with DPI , it depends on how crafty they get. Puking out a copy of a captured packet with the RST bit set to 1 and injecting viable content into an existing TCP session and having it properly render are completely different scenarios.
You're talking about the difference between building a paper airplane and building a space shuttle. To do the ad injection you would have to pass all port-80 traffic through content engines which could adjust the composition of the layer7 data to ensure proper rendering by web browsers. |
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espaeth
Digital Plumber
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
·voip.ms
·Vitelity VOIP
·Callcentric
·VoiceStick
·ViaTalk
·Comcast
·Embarq
| reply to Karl Bode
said by Karl Bode :I also am consistently annoyed that providers whine about funding upgrades and p2p users when they're consistently finding these new revenue streams without lowering prices. I'm not sure that's entirely correct.
Comcast, for example, hasn't raised prices in at least the last 6 years, meanwhile inflation has marched on. If you adjust for inflation then the price does indeed go down each year, and speeds have increased from 1.5/3mbps to 6/8mbps over that same period. |
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RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11 | I would suspect some of that non-price-increase has been borne by cable TV subs. They are not prohibited from cross-subsidy.
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Toolmaster of La Grange. |
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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02 | $40-50 VoIP helps too I'm sure. |
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