  ilago Premium join:2005-06-28 Australia
·Internode
| reply to Mele20 Re: ISP Based Contextual Advertising
quote: "The Guardian has pulled out of its targeted advertising deal with Phorm, following a public outcry over plans for the UK's three largest ISPs to report the browsing habits of their customers in exchange for a cut of revenues...
I'm sure the Guardian made that decision on the basis of the responses they were receiving from their readers.
The only way that I can see to raise concerns about this level of subversion is to keep both ISPs and Advertisers advised that users object. Where ISPs have monopolies, and many do in some areas, then I think the consumers have to seriously complain.
Without pressure from the public, who are the product in this case, legislators and advertisers aren't ever going to see the moral issues until it is their confidential data splashing in the headlines.
As a user I am not a product to be bought and sold by vested interests. |
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 Mele20 Premium join:2001-06-05 Hilo, HI
| reply to ilago "The Guardian has pulled out of its targeted advertising deal with Phorm, following a public outcry over plans for the UK's three largest ISPs to report the browsing habits of their customers in exchange for a cut of revenues...
In an email to a concerned reader, advertising manager Simon Kilby revealed the retreat:
It is true that we have had conversations with them [Phorm] regarding their services but we have concluded at this time that we do not want to be part of the network. Our decision was in no small part down to the conversations we had internally about how this product sits with the values of our company."
(Bolding is mine). »www.theregister.co.uk/2008/03/26···m_uturn/ -- "The same ferocity that our founders devoted to protect the freedom and independence of the press is now appropriate for our defense of the freedom of the internet. The stakes are the same: the survival of our Republic". Al Gore, The Assault on Reason |
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 The Snowman Premium join:2007-05-20 | reply to snowguynotlogin
Well I hope my post as snowguynotlogin has proven informational to some readers. This is where I jump off now.....I don't do this stuff any longer. Good Luck to everyone. |
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  snowguynotlogin
@verizon.net | reply to snowguynotlogin About My Last Post:
CREDIT DUE:
»addiator.blogspot.com/ |
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  snowguynotlogin
@verizon.net
| reply to snowguynotlogin
ZDnet found a link between Phorm/121Media and a company which distributed a rootkit.
Apropos uses highly sophisticated stealth techniques to avoid detection. The spyware collects a users browsing habits and system information and sends it back to the ContextPlus servers. Targeted pop-up advertisements are displayed while browsing the web.
Apropos contains a kernel-mode rootkit that allows it to hide files, directories, registry keys and processes. The rootkit is implemented by a kernel-mode driver which starts automatically early in the boot process. When the files and registry keys have been hidden, no user-mode process is allowed to access them.
The folks behind ContextPlus, Apropos and PeopleOnPage evidently did not want to be known and theres little information about them to be found on the internet. The ContextPlus.com domain registration info shows a name and address in Poland. Interestingly enough, the domain history on 2-28-2005 shows the name Apropos with an address and phone number in Kirkland, Washington. PeopleOnPage.com shows an address in Poland with the name Kent Ertugrul . A Google search for Kent Ertugrul brings up a hit showing him as director and CEO of 121 Media, which is a contextual advertising company according to the website. |
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  snowguynotlogin
@verizon.net | reply to ilago
Phorm, before it renamed itself, was the notorious spyware firm 121Media. |
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 The Snowman Premium join:2007-05-20
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to ilago CREDIT DUE:
»p10.hostingprod.com/@spyblog.org···gal.html
____________________________________________________________
To Add To Hosts File
# Phorm
127.0.0.1 a.webwise.com 127.0.0.1 b.webwise.com 127.0.0.1 c.webwise.com 127.0.0.1 bt.webwise.com 127.0.0.1 m01.webwise.com 127.0.0.1 m02.webwise.com 127.0.0.1 ns1.webwise.com 127.0.0.1 ns2.webwise.com 127.0.0.1 www.webwise.com 127.0.0.1 webwise.com
127.0.0.1 a.webwise.net 127.0.0.1 b.webwise.net 127.0.0.1 c.webwise.net 127.0.0.1 bt.webwise.net 127.0.0.1 m01.webwise.net 127.0.0.1 m02.webwise.net 127.0.0.1 ns1.webwise.net 127.0.0.1 ns2.webwise.net 127.0.0.1 www.webwise.net 127.0.0.1 webwise.net
127.0.0.1 a.webwise.org 127.0.0.1 b.webwise.org 127.0.0.1 c.webwise.org 127.0.0.1 bt.webwise.org 127.0.0.1 m01.webwise.org 127.0.0.1 m02.webwise.org 127.0.0.1 ns1.webwise.org 127.0.0.1 ns2.webwise.org 127.0.0.1 www.webwise.org 127.0.0.1 webwise.org
127.0.0.1 a.oix.net 127.0.0.1 b.oix.net 127.0.0.1 c.oix.net 127.0.0.1 m01.oix.net 127.0.0.1 m02.oix.net 127.0.0.1 ns1.oix.net 127.0.0.1 ns2.oix.net 127.0.0.1 www.oix.net 127.0.0.1 oix.net
127.0.0.1 a.oix.com 127.0.0.1 b.oix.com 127.0.0.1 c.oix.com 127.0.0.1 m01.oix.com 127.0.0.1 m02.oix.com 127.0.0.1 ns1.oix.com 127.0.0.1 ns2.oix.com 127.0.0.1 www.oix.com 127.0.0.1 oix.com
____________________________________________________________
Neither Blocking the cookies nor the DNS lookups in your hosts file will actually prevent the Phorm man-in-the-middle-attack hardware from illegally snooping on your electronic communications, it will just stop you getting the targeted adverts
____________________________________________________________
CREDIT DUE:
»p10.hostingprod.com/@spyblog.org···gal.html |
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 Just Basics
join:2003-06-08 Painter, VA
| reply to ilago Net Neutrality
This is not the same issue but it easily could be in the future:
»https://secure.freepress.net/site/Advoca···n&id=241
The link will send you to a petition with a form that can be amended to include questionable, and possibly illegal, behavior by your ISP.
I have filled it out and surprisingly received a reply from my representative:
"Thank you for visiting my website and I appreciate receiving your email. Your thoughts and opinions are important to me and I look forward to mailing you a formal reply soon.
Sincerely, Rep. Thelma Drake"
Will this do any good? Who knows - but it is at least worth a shot and doesn't take very long.
You may also want to review the following page: »www.savetheinternet.com/blog/200···swallow/
From the article - bolding mine:
"An open Internet looks quite different. It starts with Net Neutrality, which guarantees a level playing field and gives the little guy the same chance as Google to come up with the next big thing. (Remember, it wasnt Comcast or AT&T that invented YouTube, blogs, eBay or almost anything else that makes the internet so great.) On an open Internet, a providers only job is to move data not degrade, inspect or censor content." |
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 SUMware Premium join:2002-05-21
| reply to ilago Re: ISP Based Contextual Advertising
I was just heading over to »www.phorm.com/videos/ to watch some vids from the Phorm CEO and received the above alert from Dephormation. Heh! |
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 The Snowman Premium join:2007-05-20
·Verizon Online DSL
1 edit | reply to ilago
Really this sort of thing should not come as a surprise......the ad vendors have been lossing revenue and will go to any resource to re-gain that revenue.
There are several ways to deal with this issue.....none of which the average person would be obviously willing to do. An how can they be faulted ? When every wannabe security expert (yeah right) is out there pushing false information or infected software. There remains a rare few trustworthy vendors these days.......and that confuses the hell out of joe doe public.
Close the door on any ISP that uses this exploit.....find a ISP that does not....that may get their attention. |
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 OZO Premium join:2003-01-17
| reply to ilago It's time to do something...
There should be a law that prohibits gathering behavioural information on users by ISP or any others entity between user's computer and first Internet router.
It's important to distinguish that it's not about Google, or Yahoo, or Phorm, or any company that may change its name or its tactics later on. It's about protection of first hop from tracking and/or mangling communication by any party.
If it will not be done soon - the race for a buck will make a lot of nasties possible, including targeted advertisements in every received mail, web page, video stream, etc. It's time to get serious about it and fix it or soon it will be too late and we'll be deeply sorry about that all... -- Keep it simple, it'll become complex by itself... |
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 SUMware Premium join:2002-05-21
1 edit | reply to ilago Re: ISP Based Contextual Advertising
Here's another:
Project Rialto A Stealth Company Created by Alcatel-Lucent
Sr. Engineer Data Mining and Modeling Mountain View, CA [excerpted]:
We are designing high-performance algorithms and developing reliable, fault-tolerant and scalable real-time systems that can handle massive volume of data for in-depth analysis of user behavior to enable targeted advertising.
Essential Job Functions - Develop high-performance algorithms for precision targeting - Research and investigate academic and industrial data mining, machine learning and modeling techniques to apply to our specific business case
Requirements - Ph.D. in computer science or related - 3+ years industry experience in data mining and machine learning. - Internet advertisement technology and distributed computing related experience highly desirable. |
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  anon101
@cox.net
| reply to ilago Wow, what people will do to "enhance my viewing experience". Wow, "targeted advertising". Now I will see all blow-up doll ads when I go to disney.com. Wow, I can't wait. This sounds very similar to what Homeland Security is doing now. Maybe that's where they got the idea from.
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  Grail Knight Who Dares Wins Premium join:2003-05-31
·Verizon Online DSL
1 edit | reply to Just Basics Re: Possible Regulation?
quote: Where are the indignant people who object strenuously when a website sets a tracking cookie? Where is the outrage that was caused by the Sony rootkit or Windows validation? And the list goes on.
Sleeping.
Seriously though this is one of those events that requires users to do more then complain in a form about something. Letter writing, fire of an email of the users displeasure stating factual information about why this should not be allowed to happen to their political reps etc... This one actually requires users to do some legwork but unless there is an incentive for the ISPs not to allow this it will happen. It is all about money.
quote: What I do care about is that my information is shared with a third party for profit without my knowledge which has already happened.
Same here yet what controls are in place to stop the more obvious routes of personal loss/trade/sold/stolen/shoddy handling etc...?
Now if all of the ISPs jump on this bandwagon the usual threats by users to switch ISPs just will not cut it and I doubt that the majority of online users are going to hang up their router/modem unless the ISPs put a halt to the practice if and when it happens on a wide scale basis.
Edit* Added more info. |
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 SUMware Premium join:2002-05-21
2 edits | reply to Just Basics said by Just Basics :What really concerns me is the apathy that is apparent in this thread about a subject that could forever change the internet. Where are the indignant people who object strenuously when a website sets a tracking cookie? Where is the outrage I agree. |
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 Just Basics
join:2003-06-08 Painter, VA
| reply to SUMware SUMWare, I don't care if a Federal Agency monitors my every movement on the internet - but that is just my own opinion. There have already been many discussions on this topic and what it boils down to is whether using the internet is a right or a privilege. I consider it a privilege and pay my ISP for that privilege.
What I do care about is that my information is shared with a third party for profit without my knowledge which has already happened. Whether it happens at the ISP level or a server along the line makes little difference to me.
What really concerns me is the apathy that is apparent in this thread about a subject that could forever change the internet.
Where are the indignant people who object strenuously when a website sets a tracking cookie? Where is the outrage that was caused by the Sony rootkit or Windows validation? And the list goes on.
It leads me to think that most really don't care whether their connection to the internet is compromised at the ISP level and their ISP is willingly co-operating with what is no more than an advertising agency.
Do you really trust your ISP enough to not share even more of your personal information with this third party? How about your name, address and even credit card information they have on file? What is to prevent them from doing so? |
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  ilago Premium join:2005-06-28 Australia
·Internode
| reply to SUMware This is on the news page here. It refers to the Register article I linked to earlier.
"Rootkit and spyware developer turned behavioral advertising firm Phorm has agreed to let an independent analyst inspect the source code for their controversial browsing history tracking technology. Like NebuAD in the States, the company pays ISPs to install deep packet inspection hardware on their network to track user behavior. Unlike NebuAD, Phorm has a pretty shady history in spyware, and is trying to convince UK users that the ISP money-grab is really an anti-phishing solution. Both companies are fighting an uphill battle in gaining consumer trust."
»Phorm Opens Source Code For Inspection
I don't have much faith in the code inspection. It needs ongoing compliance and independent auditing. It could be changed remotely within a few minutes once it's in place. These guys are experts at that 
Thanks for this reference SUMware.
quote: If it passed, computer users could request that companies like Google, Yahoo, AOL and Microsoft, which routinely keep track of searches and surfing conducted on their own properties, not follow them around. Users would also have to give explicit permission before these companies could link the anonymous searching and surfing data from around the Web to information like their name, address or phone number.
Because there is no federal legislation on these subjects, Mr. Brodskys bill and, to a lesser extent, the one in Connecticut could set interesting precedents.
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 SUMware Premium join:2002-05-21
2 edits | reply to Just Basics said by Just Basics :The opt-out given by Phorm really isn't an opt-out at all - it stops the targeting advertising, but all your requests are still going through their servers, you no longer have a direct internet connection, and they still get to profile you. This angers the NSA/CIA/FBI who want to be the first in line to monitor your entire data stream.  -
A Push to Limit the Tracking of Web Surfers Clicks quote: After reading about how Internet companies like Google, Microsoft and Yahoo collect information about people online and use it for targeted advertising, one New York assemblyman said there ought to be a law.
So he drafted a bill, now gathering support in Albany, that would make it a crime punishable by a fine to be determined for certain Web companies to use personal information about consumers for advertising without their consent.
And because it would be extraordinarily difficult for the companies that collect such data to adhere to stricter rules for people in New York alone, these companies would probably have to adjust their rules everywhere, effectively turning the New York legislation into national law.
Should these companies be able to sell or use whats essentially private data without permission? The easy answer is absolutely not, said the assemblyman who sponsored the bill, Richard L. Brodsky, a Democrat who has represented part of Westchester County since 1982.
Mr. Brodsky is not the only lawmaker with this idea. In Connecticut, the General Law Committee of the state assembly has introduced a bill that focuses on data collection rules for ad networks, the companies that serve ads on sites they do not own.
The New York bill, still a work in progress, is shaping up as much broader. Although it is likely to see some tinkering before it comes to a vote which Mr. Brodsky hopes will happen this spring it aims to force Web sites to give consumers obvious ways to opt out of advertising based on their browsing history and Web actions.
If it passed, computer users could request that companies like Google, Yahoo, AOL and Microsoft, which routinely keep track of searches and surfing conducted on their own properties, not follow them around. Users would also have to give explicit permission before these companies could link the anonymous searching and surfing data from around the Web to information like their name, address or phone number.
Because there is no federal legislation on these subjects, Mr. Brodskys bill and, to a lesser extent, the one in Connecticut could set interesting precedents.
In recent weeks, Microsoft and Yahoo have sent lobbyists to meet with Mr. Brodsky, and AOL, a unit of Time Warner, is planning a meeting. Unlike most Web companies, Microsoft favors legislation about online privacy and advertising practices and has lobbied federal lawmakers to establish regulations, said Michael Hintze, associate general counsel for Microsoft.
Microsoft asked Mr. Brodsky to broaden his bill to include all sorts of companies that serve ads around the Web, not just those that show ads based on users behavior. Such a change would create a bill that more clearly includes Microsofts chief competitor, Google.
Mr. Brodsky says he has asked the Web companies point-blank if they would support legislation similar to what he has proposed. Microsoft gave him a firm yes, but Yahoo, he said, seemed to be opposed to any sort of regulation. Yahoo declined to comment on its meeting with Mr. Brodsky.
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ISP Tracking: The Mother of All Privacy Battles quote: Big companies like AOL, Microsoft and Yahoo, and smaller ones like Revenue Science, are gathering various crumbs about online behavior to use in their advertising systems. They are limited to gathering data from their own sites and their networks of affiliates.
Eventually, cellphone companies will start to face the same choice. If there is a G.P.S. unit in your phone, it will be able to keep track of what stores you visit, among many other things.
All these partial schemes may well be rendered as useless as a blindfolded spy by some new companies that want to tap into the records of Internet service providers. Their objective: following every single click users make. That way, in theory, they have the best ability to find ads that can indulge each users passion of the moment. Among the companies trying to build out this sort of system are Phorm, NebuAd, FrontPorch.
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  ilago Premium join:2005-06-28 Australia
·Internode
| reply to Mele20 Re: ISP Based Contextual Advertising

This is not good.
There's a little bit more today in The Register, including a link to the UK Privacy Report that Phorm has been using to justify how good they are at privacy.
»www.theregister.co.uk/2008/03/19···8020_pi/
And some more comment here »www.politicalpenguin.org.uk/blog/cat,25/ |
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 Mele20 Premium join:2001-06-05 Hilo, HI
| reply to ilago According to the NY Times, Phorm will be coming to major USA broadband ISPs very soon:
"A Company Promises the Deepest Data Mining Yet
Amid debate over how much data companies like Google and Yahoo should gather about people who surf the Web, one new company is drawing attention and controversy by boasting that it will collect the most complete information of all.
The company, called Phorm, has created a tool that can track every single online action of a given consumer, based on data from that persons Internet service provider. The trick for Phorm is to gain access to that data, and it is trying to negotiate deals with telephone and cable companies, like AT&T, Verizon and Comcast, that provide broadband service to millions."
»www.nytimes.com/2008/03/20/busin···business -- "The same ferocity that our founders devoted to protect the freedom and independence of the press is now appropriate for our defense of the freedom of the internet. The stakes are the same: the survival of our Republic". Al Gore, The Assault on Reason |
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