 Jaghar
join:2001-01-30 Painesville, OH
| This will work
I think what's important is that NIN, apparently, has an actual business model that allows this method of distribution. They aren't just giving it away and hoping for the best.
I'm not a big NIN fan, but I really like what Trent is doing with this. -- We will always be much more human than we wish to be. |
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  TKJunkMail Enjoy the sun Premium join:2002-03-03 Avalon, NJ
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| We'll see if his business plan is worth anything when his "fans" start making the 27 songs he hasn't given away for free available thru the Pirate Bay.
»www.news.com/8301-10784_3-988418···1_3-0-20
Nine Inch Nails, continued his foray into self-distribution by releasing a 36-track instrumental album over the Internet.
Reznor is giving away the first nine songs of the album for free. -- My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page |
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  hopeflicker Capitalism breeds greed Premium join:2003-04-03 Long Beach, CA
| said by TKJunkMail :We'll see if his business plan is worth anything when his "fans" start making the 27 songs he hasn't given away for free available thru the Pirate Bay. » www.news.com/8301-10784_3-988418···1_3-0-20Nine Inch Nails, continued his foray into self-distribution by releasing a 36-track instrumental album over the Internet.
Reznor is giving away the first nine songs of the album for free. Perhaps his business plan does not involve greed. -- Man created God in his image : intolerant, sexist, homophobic and violent. |
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  Karl Bode News Guy join:2000-03-02
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| reply to TKJunkMail Lets see: still makes millions upon millions from film licensing, merchandising, and concerts, while he gets direct revenue from whomever buys the album instead of the small amount he received from the labels.
Even if only ten thousand of his millions of fans buy the album, I think he'll do ok. Piracy means that albums have become promotional material for artist brands, essentially, with real revenue coming elsewhere.
With the added bonus of myopic old executives without vision, terrified of taking risks, convinced that scorched earth legal tactics are how you run a business -- getting cut out of the revenue stream. |
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  bear73 Metnav... Fly The Unfriendly Skies Premium join:2001-06-09 Grand Forks Afb, ND
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| reply to TKJunkMail As the article stated, the majority of income was derived from tours and t-shirts, not CD sales.
If they make 15% of sales via people paying for download, CD or "bonus content" its still 14% or more than they would have made partnered to a label.
The business model is to make money the honest way. Working for it through touring and merchandise. -- If ya gotta go, Go with a SMILE! »www.thereligionofpeace.com/ |
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  TKJunkMail Enjoy the sun Premium join:2002-03-03 Avalon, NJ
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| said by bear73 :As the article stated, the majority of income was derived from tours and t-shirts, not CD sales. No. That is what Karl said, not NIN. Any proof of where their income comes from? -- My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page |
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 Thaler Premium join:2004-02-02 Encino, CA
| reply to TKJunkMail said by TKJunkMail :We'll see if his business plan is worth anything when his "fans" start making the 27 songs he hasn't given away for free available thru the Pirate Bay. Whatever it is, its clearly profitable enough for him to be doing it again. |
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  Karl Bode News Guy join:2000-03-02
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2 edits | reply to TKJunkMail »www.economist.com/business/displ···=9443082
quote: Indeed. Seven years ago musicians derived two-thirds of their income, via record labels, from pre-recorded music, with the other one-third coming from concert tours, merchandise and endorsements, according to the Music Managers Forum, a trade group in London. But today those proportions have been reversedcutting the labels off from the industry's biggest and fastest-growing sources of revenue. Concert-ticket sales in North America alone increased from $1.7 billion in 2000 to over $3.1 billion last year, according to Pollstar, a trade magazine.
Frustrated record companies have responded by trying to get their artists to spend more time promoting records and less time touring and endorsing products, says Jeanne Meyer of EMI, another big record label. Sometimes you've got a tug of war going on, she says. Yet the more labels spend on marketing pre-recorded music, the more they raise their artists' profiles and boost their other, more lucrative, sources of income. Pre-recorded music, no longer the main cash cow, increasingly serves merely as a marketing tool for T-shirts and concert tickets. The best seats for The Police's world tour this summer cost over $900; the group's entire catalogue on CD costs less than $100.
»www.forbes-global.com/forbes/200···int.html
quote: A new group typically gets only 14% of a CD's wholesale price, and even that cut dwindles to a third of that once the company deducts promotional fees. . . Performers frequently moan about never seeing a royalty check from their record label, no matter how many discs they sell. But a top concert draw can take home 35% of the night's gate and up to 50% of the dollar flow from merchandise sold at the show. The labels get none of it.
Now, at least as a big act, imagine cutting the label out of that process entirely. |
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  King P Don't blame me. I voted for Ron Paul Premium join:2004-11-17 Inman, SC
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| reply to TKJunkMail As one that both studied Recording Industry and works in the industry, I can tell you that Karl is right. CD's are nothing more than promotional material to an artist, if they are signed to a label. The label makes most of the money in that situation, and the artist makes money from touring and licensing. That's why most songwriters have their own publishing "company" for their music. -- Forget 'em, Support the Indies. »www.ind-music.com |
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  DownTheShore Maddie Knows Poopie Premium join:2003-12-02 Beautiful NJ clubs:
| reply to Jaghar I'm another person who isn't a fan of NIN, mainly because I just haven't heard much of their music. But I ponied up the $5 for the Amazon download just to support their approach to marketing their music. And if I like their music (which from the samples I heard, I think I will), I'm quite willing to continue supporting them in this fashion.
I'd rather be supporting the artists this way, with them getting the bulk of the income, rather than the record companies, which I think have stagnated and are mainly concerned with retaining power and their jobs. I don't have issues with P2P sharing because I think that it more often than not broadens the audience for a lot of artists, and introduces people to genres they may not have listened to before. And if the bulk of the artists' income derives from concerts and merchandising, then as was mentioned by others the music is a marketing tool and it makes sense to explore methods to get noticed in as wide a venue as possible. -- Life is simply one damned thing after another. |
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  TKJunkMail Enjoy the sun Premium join:2002-03-03 Avalon, NJ
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| reply to Karl Bode said by Karl Bode :» www.forbes-global.com/forbes/200···int.html quote: A new group typically gets only 14% of a CD's wholesale price, and even that cut dwindles to a third of that once the company deducts promotional fees. . . Performers frequently moan about never seeing a royalty check from their record label, no matter how many discs they sell. But a top concert draw can take home 35% of the night's gate and up to 50% of the dollar flow from merchandise sold at the show. The labels get none of it.
Now, at least as a big act, imagine cutting the label out of that process entirely. But the labels aren't stupid. If you are a noname, nobody band, you need a label to get known. And the labels now are demanding a different contract: »www.economist.com/business/displ···=9443082
Record labels have come up with a remedy: the “360° contract”. Instead of settling for a cut of CD sales, they increasingly offer artists broader contracts that encompass live music, merchandise and endorsement deals.
Musicians with small fan bases and little business experience are much more receptive to the idea of 360° deals. There is no shortage of aspiring artists, and some will become big names. Juha Ruusunen, the founder of TWU, a small management agency for heavy-metal bands based in Jyväskylä, Finland, says European labels have begun to sign up new talent with 360° contracts. So, the old well known names can make out. Newer groups will sell their soul for long term contracts where the labels get a bigger cut of all the ancillary income. -- My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page |
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  Karl Bode News Guy join:2000-03-02
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4 edits | quote: If you are a noname, nobody band, you need a label to get known.
Do you?
Starting to see these groups (Pearl Jam, Jack Johnson and NIN come to mind), taking new artists in under their wing and pushing out product under their own "labels" (the semantic definition of which isn't the point) focused on artists. Nobody had ever heard of Saul Williams six months ago until Reznor promoted him. |
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  pnh102 Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty Premium join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD
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| said by Karl Bode : quote: If you are a noname, nobody band, you need a label to get known.
Do you? Absolutely.
said by Karl Bode :Starting to see these groups (Pearl Jam, Jack Johnson and NIN come to mind), taking new artists in under their wing and pushing out product under their own labels. "Nobody" had ever heard of Saul Williams six months ago until Reznor promoted him. Emphasis mine. Saul Williams still needed a label to become known. In this case, it was Trent Reznor's label.
The Internet has been part of the mainstream for quite sometime now. However, we still have yet to see any act go from nothing to something without a label. -- This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate! |
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  Armaina Not every saint is a fool Premium join:2002-11-06 Tempe, AZ
| said by pnh102 :The Internet has been part of the mainstream for quite sometime now. However, we still have yet to see any act go from nothing to something without a label. yet Personally I think we'll start to see more start to make it on their own as they start to learn how to really use the resources available. |
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  PolarBear The bear formerly known as aaron8301 Premium join:2005-01-03
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| reply to Karl Bode said by Karl Bode :With the added bonus of myopic old executives without vision, terrified of taking risks, convinced that scorched earth legal tactics are how you run a business -- getting cut out of the revenue stream. Karl, that made me all warm and fuzzy inside!  |
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  pnh102 Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty Premium join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD
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| reply to Armaina said by Armaina : yet I'm certainly not dismissing the possibility. I'm just surprised it has taken so long for it to happen.
I still think that labels are relevant, even if selling CDs is no longer going to be their core business. Someone has to promote an act, after all. -- This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate! |
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  LilYoda Feline with squirel personality disorder Premium join:2004-09-02 Mountains
| reply to pnh102 said by pnh102 :However, we still have yet to see any act go from nothing to something without a label. Not sure how popular she is in the states, but I think that's more or less what Lily Allen has done in Europe... »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lily_Allen
She had a first label contract, that got her nowhere. She then got another one that got her £25000, but no help to make the album or promote it. She then gained exposure by posting her music on her MySpace page.
I do agree that it is an exception, and not the norm -- Nicotine reaches and triggers the reward circuits of the brain in 7 seconds. Beat that, Work! |
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  Jason Levine Premium join:2001-07-13 USA
| reply to TKJunkMail Check out eMusic.com and AmieStreet.com. There are a lot of bands out there that aren't selling their souls to get a big recording contract. Sites like this don't require the artist to give up copyright ownership and don't take as large a chunk of the music sales. As time progresses, this model will become more and more popular for musicians. Record Labels (as they exist now) are on their way out and the artists will be better off overall for it. -- -Jason Levine Support a children's charity. Buy a calendar. Shooting For A Cause Jason's Toolbox | PCQandA.com |
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