pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | This Wouldn't Bother Me So Much ...
... except for the fact that I work in an area that would probably be in the fallout zone of a terrorist attack.
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This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate! |
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Noah Vail
Premium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
 ·RoadRunner Cable
| I used to see it that way...
said by pnh102  :... except for the fact that I work in an area that would probably be in the fallout zone of a terrorist attack. That was while we were arguing over a warrant for one call at a time.
Today, we are cloning all the internet traffic running through peer pipes, and handing the FBI unrestricted access to all Verizon traffic.
This is a pretty good definition of the government spying on all of us. I have moved from support of my government to defending myself from my government.
NV
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Abortion: A Republican Plot to Thin the Liberal Herd. |
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Raptor
Not a Dumptruck
join:2001-10-21
London, ON | reply to pnh102
Re: This Wouldn't Bother Me So Much ...
I live and work in an area where a satellite could fall on me. Stop living in fear. |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| reply to Noah Vail
Re: I used to see it that way...
said by Noah Vail :I have moved from support of my government to defending myself from my government. I think too many people in the USA have no idea what it like to live under a tyrannical, repressive government. I still stand by my view that no one's rights have been violated on a scale major enough to make the claim that we have no rights.
It isn't like the government is rounding up all the people in this country who disagree with the government and making them disappear. The government isn't shutting down websites or newspapers critical of it. The government isn't doing anything infringing more than it has in recent years. I don't see any systemic, prolonged violation of our rights under this administration compared to previous administrations.
I do think though that the Democrat party, in its neverending quest to secure our defeat, is doing everything it can to embolden our enemies. By putting a stop to the government's ability to wiretap, it enables people who would want to do us harm to use another means of communication to do so.
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This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate! |
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en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA | What other country have you lived in to experience this ?
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Canada = Hollywood North |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| said by en102 :What other country have you lived in to experience this ? I don't have to live anywhere else to know.
I do however, read about the daily lives of people living in places like the old Soviet bloc, North Korea, China, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Zimbabwe, Venezuela, and Cuba to know that in the USA, we have it very good.
You don't have to pee on an electric fence to know that it is generally a bad idea.
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This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate! |
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en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA | Most G8 countries have it pretty good.
And not to sidetrack, but if the U.S. could cut its oil consumption to it being an export commodity, it would be even better.
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Canada = Hollywood North |
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Red Dawn
join:2004-12-13
Dallas, TX
| reply to pnh102
I think it's sad when people such as yourself go to "extremes" to try to equate this to what North Korea, Iran, or other countries do. It is not the same. I will say this though, you DO NOT know what information the government has on you, nor how it affects your life. Nor do you know who has access to that information, who you call, what sites you visit, who all of your family, friends are, what you like to eat, etc, etc. All of this in the wrong hands, could hurt you in some way. As to our government not rounding up people with no due process, uh, have you heard of "Rendition", this is very real and the CIA does it every day. If they even think for a sec you got something they want, they take you and whisk you away to some foreign land to "extract" whatever information they can. This isn't hollywood, this is real, being done to american citizens and those aboard with NO oversight. There are many government programs being run by the NSA, again with little to no oversight, to get as much information, no matter how small, on every single person living in this country. So even if you don't have a red flag, they want everything on you, no matter what it is, why? Power corrupts my friend, you should know that, look how our government run's itself. With no oversight, you do not know what could, or will happen with all of this information nor how many people could be hurt through the process. Don't we learn from mistakes? Everyday innocent people are thrown to prison for crimes they did not do. Yes back in the day it was a joke to say they were all guilty, but now days, all of us know a good number of people behind bars shouldn't be there, never did anything. That line will also be broken if we continue to allow agencies full reign over anything they want. Not a matter of if, but when. |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Yawn.
There's this key, it's called "Enter." Use it.
As for your post, it is perfectly valid to illustrate how repressive regimes operate and then compare them to what is going on in the USA to conclude that we still have our rights.
When people like you begin to disappear or are otherwise censored on a mass scale, then I will agree that we have have a serious problem.
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This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate! |
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nasadude
join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD
·Comcast
1 edit | reply to Raptor
Re: This Wouldn't Bother Me So Much ...
said by Raptor :I live and work in an area where a satellite could fall on me. Stop living in fear. you beat me to it. there is a higher chance of being hit by lightning than of being injured or killed in a terrorist attack.
why is there no global war on lightning?
wish I had thought of this earlier: they have already started the global war on satellites.
the people that have this unreasoning fear are the ones that are enabling the gutting of our constitution. Unfortunately, this includes a number of our elected representatives. |
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swhx7
Premium
join:2006-07-23
Elbonia
·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to pnh102
said by pnh102 :... except for the fact that I work in an area that would probably be in the fallout zone of a terrorist attack.
Apart from home-grown fanatics, terrorism has struck the US only once, and it's unclear whether the 2001.09.11 crimes were purely foreign-originated or another Reichstag fire.
Since then any real threat of terrorism has continued only because US foreign policy, including support of Zionism and wars of aggression and plunder, have made enemies; and concern about it has continued mainly because news media have continuously spewed propaganda designed to foster fear, obedience, and support for the belligerent foreign policy.
Objectively, you're far more likely to die from a car accident or falling down stairs than to be directly affected by terrorism.
The whole idea that there is some conflict between civil liberties and security, or that eroding citizens' rights somehow makes us safer, is complete rubbish. If there's evidence of a crime, authorities can get a warrant and spy on someone; if there's no evidence of a crime then there's no reason to think the person is a threat and no reason to think we're unsafe for not spying on him.
How many of the lies have you fallen for? The bizarre idea that Saddam Hussein was a threat to the US? The myth of "Al Quaeda"? The absurd pretence that the oil war was about "spreading democracy"? Better keep an eye on the realities: the Bush gang have bankrupted the nation and taken us far along the path to fascism. |
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CableConvert
Premium
join:2003-12-05
Atlanta, GA
| reply to pnh102
Re: I used to see it that way...
said by pnh102 :said by Noah Vail :I have moved from support of my government to defending myself from my government. I think too many people in the USA have no idea what it like to live under a tyrannical, repressive government. I still stand by my view that no one's rights have been violated on a scale major enough to make the claim that we have no rights. It isn't like the government is rounding up all the people in this country who disagree with the government and making them disappear. The government isn't shutting down websites or newspapers critical of it. The government isn't doing anything infringing more than it has in recent years. I don't see any systemic, prolonged violation of our rights under this administration compared to previous administrations. I do think though that the Democrat party, in its neverending quest to secure our defeat, is doing everything it can to embolden our enemies. By putting a stop to the government's ability to wiretap, it enables people who would want to do us harm to use another means of communication to do so. Yet |
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rahvin112
join:2002-05-24
Sandy, UT
| reply to swhx7
Re: This Wouldn't Bother Me So Much ...
said by swhx7 :said by pnh102 :... except for the fact that I work in an area that would probably be in the fallout zone of a terrorist attack. Apart from home-grown fanatics, terrorism has struck the US only once, and it's unclear whether the 2001.09.11 crimes were purely foreign-originated or another Reichstag fire. Since then any real threat of terrorism has continued only because US foreign policy, including support of Zionism and wars of aggression and plunder, have made enemies; and concern about it has continued mainly because news media have continuously spewed propaganda designed to foster fear, obedience, and support for the belligerent foreign policy. I think you are needed down at the next racist militia meeting, you'll fit right in. |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| reply to swhx7
said by swhx7 :Apart from home-grown fanatics, terrorism has struck the US only once, and it's unclear whether the 2001.09.11 crimes were purely foreign-originated or another Reichstag fire. I see.
You get points for using line breaks, but that's it.
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This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate! |
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Kevin Dupuy
join:2007-04-07
Addis, LA
| reply to pnh102
Re: I used to see it that way...
1st: No one is saying US citizens have 'no rights'. And we are lucky and fortunate to live an a mostly free country. Here's the thing: In America, there should be NO way th government should be able to take away any rights, especially those written into the Bill of Rights!
By the way, I've been seeing 'scare-mongering' ads on TV like "THe Senate approved the bill to hear what terrorists are planning. Why hasn't the House? Call your representative and tell them to pass the "Terrorist Surveillances Act". I wanted to call my Rep. and thank him for not approving the spy program, but of course he's retired and we're in the middle of an election for a new one.
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Because there is no patch for human stupidity. Or my DIRECTV Plus DVR. |
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amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22
Tempe, AZ
·Cox HSI
 ·magicjack.com
| said by Kevin Dupuy :th government should be able to take away any rights, especially those written into the Bill of Rights! The right under discussion is privacy which doesn't exist in the Constitution. It wasn't recognized until 1964 as part of a case involving a woman's right to access birth control, and it was based upon a relatively new concept of imposing the Bill of Rights against state infringement which began around 1924.
The protection against search and seizure only says "unreasonable" searches and seizures. Obviously some are reasonable.
I'm not arguing against privacy or better protections against searches. Just that it's not as simple as some people wish it were.
Mark |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| reply to Kevin Dupuy
said by Kevin Dupuy :By the way, I've been seeing 'scare-mongering' ads on TV like "THe Senate approved the bill to hear what terrorists are planning. What is wrong with the ad? What it says is completely true.
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This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate! |
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Tzale
Proud Libertarian Conservative
Premium
join:2004-01-06
Sweden
 ·Verizon FIOS
·Optimum Online
| reply to Noah Vail
said by Noah Vail :said by pnh102 :... except for the fact that I work in an area that would probably be in the fallout zone of a terrorist attack. That was while we were arguing over a warrant for one call at a time. Today, we are cloning all the internet traffic running through peer pipes, and handing the FBI unrestricted access to all Verizon traffic. This is a pretty good definition of the government spying on all of us. I have moved from support of my government to defending myself from my government. NV A good citizen doesn't "support" the Government. A good citizen CRITICIZES the Government... Thomas Jefferson and our founding fathers said it themselves... The Government should fear YOU, you should NOT fear the Government.
-Tzale
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Neoconservatives (G.W.B) are not real conservatives. A conservative believes in defending the Constitution. First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. - RON PAUL 2008 »www.usconstitution.net/const.html
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SilentMan
join:2002-07-15
New York, NY
| reply to pnh102
said by pnh102 :said by en102 :What other country have you lived in to experience this ? I don't have to live anywhere else to know. I do however, read about the daily lives of people living in places like the old Soviet bloc, North Korea, China, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Zimbabwe, Venezuela, and Cuba to know that in the USA, we have it very good. You don't have to pee on an electric fence to know that it is generally a bad idea. Venezuela? You have been watching too much Faux News.
Oh! Millions of energy saving light bulbs have been installed in Venezuelan homes and every single one of them contains a microphone so that the Government can listen in to what people say in their houses. /sarcasm  |
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mech1164
I'Ll Be Back
join:2001-11-19
Lodi, NJ
| reply to Tzale
said by Tzale :said by Noah Vail :said by pnh102 :... except for the fact that I work in an area that would probably be in the fallout zone of a terrorist attack. That was while we were arguing over a warrant for one call at a time. Today, we are cloning all the internet traffic running through peer pipes, and handing the FBI unrestricted access to all Verizon traffic. This is a pretty good definition of the government spying on all of us. I have moved from support of my government to defending myself from my government. NV A good citizen doesn't "support" the Government. A good citizen CRITICIZES the Government... Thomas Jefferson and our founding fathers said it themselves... The Government should fear YOU, you should NOT fear the Government. -Tzale Quite true, but what is the first responsibility of government? To protect its people from threats. Be that external or internal. By what the Dems in the House are doing we can't do neither. BTW for all those people that cry out Privacy, PSST they don't care. You are not that sanctimoniously worth it to them. |
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