UT_CK
Premium
join:2008-01-28 | reply to Busyboy
Re: Good News: the throttle is not applied today
Hehe .. Hiya Busyboy,
Lucky you .. I was throttled this morning ...
Got a reprieve from throttling for a small part of the day..
I'm still throttled tonite.
CK
{:(B) |
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UT_CK
Premium
join:2008-01-28
 ·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Bell Sympatico
| reply to Last Parade
Re: Generic Letter to Competition Bureau re: Bell throttling ISP
said by Last Parade  :form letters are such a piss-poor idea. they systematically get ignored by whoever you're sending them to. Ah Ok ... Write your own then ! 
I give you permission to cut and paste/modify/customize any part ... lol
Regards,
CK
{:(B) |
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Busyboy
@teksavvy.com
| reply to UT_CK
Good News: the throttle is not applied today
The throttling is on every day at 4:30 PM. My down load speed generally drops down from 500K to 50K at 4:30 and then further down to 20K after an hour or so. It goes back to 500K early morning.
Strangely speaking, today there is no throttling so far. By the time I wrote this (7:20 PM), the speed is normal. Hopefully Bell has lifted the damn throttling. Cheers for everybody who wrote letters, call MP's and email people concerned. |
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Last Parade
One of the Brightest Stars
join:2002-10-07
Port Colborne, ON | reply to UT_CK
Re: Generic Letter to Competition Bureau re: Bell throttling ISP
form letters are such a piss-poor idea. they systematically get ignored by whoever you're sending them to. |
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Radar73
join:2008-01-20
Ajax, ON | reply to UT_CK
I wrote a letter to my MPP, MP, Competition Bureau, CRTC, and Industry Minister. Keep it up people! |
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The_sloth
@owergeneration.com | reply to UT_CK
Letter sent, we need to take back the internet! |
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UT_CK
Premium
join:2008-01-28
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Bell Sympatico
| reply to ncf user
1. The CRTC does not regulate rates, quality of service issues or business practices for Internet Service Providers. The market is competitive and consumers should shop around to find the one that most suits their needs and budget. Consumers experiencing difficulties should contact their service providers quickly to resolve the problem.
... The market WAS competitive until Bell imposed its policies on resellers. Shop around ? Where ? ... All resellers are (or will be) throttled by Bell !
2. If you scan through the these Acts of parliament, the closest you can find to a relevant argument is a provision that states that telecommunications carriers (i.e. the wholesalers, like Bell and Rogers, the people that own the physical lines) must provide to their resellers the equivalent service being offered to direct customers of the carriers themselves, or to customers of any other reseller or internally affiliated entity. Basically this means that if Bell wants to disable or limit a portion of the service that it provides, then it's free to do so as long as it does so globally.
... An who is policing that ? Bell ?
3. Abuse of Dominant position - might be a hook here, but the letters mentioned previously don't address that.
... Even so, The Competition Bureau does not need to be "woken up" to act. It can initiate action without complaint .. if there are grounds to do so.. And there are grounds to do so !
4. A smarter approach might be to follow the path of the Privacy Act, after all internet throttling is typically achieved through DPI (deep packet inspection), and it's arguable that it's illegal to snoop into my communications traffic. Canada Post isn't allowed to prioritize their delivery schedules based on the content of the letters, after all, the privacy act makes it illegal to inspect the contents, and if CPC should happen to discover the contents by accident even, they are obligated to ignore them and hold such a discovery as confidential.
.... Agreed, it does not hurt to attack from multiple fronts.
Thanks for your input .. Very constructive and helpful.
Regards,
CK
{:(B) |
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ncf user
@ncf.ca
| reply to UT_CK
Please let me start by saying that I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade.
My spouse is a former executive with the Competition Bureau, and thus I've gained some insight into the practices of the Current Commissioner [Sheridan Scott], and the former Commissioner [Konrad Von Finckenstein], who is also the current Commissioner of the CRTC. Both of these individuals are extremely competent, pensive and dedicated individuals who take very seriously the scope of their mandate. As such, they are obviously very aware of what their mandate is and so too should we who intend to cite it for the purposes of our grievances. the Competition Bureau's mandate is outlined in the Competition Act, and the CRTC's mandate is outline in the Canadian Radio and telecommunications act, and is furthered by the broadcasting Act, the telecommunications act, and the Bell Canada Act.
Here are few snippets from the CRTC web site
Rates, quality of service and business practices
The CRTC does not regulate rates, quality of service issues or business practices for Internet Service Providers. The market is competitive and consumers should shop around to find the one that most suits their needs and budget. Consumers experiencing difficulties should contact their service providers quickly to resolve the problem.
Censorship
The CRTC regulates and supervises all aspects of the Canadian broadcasting system and requires broadcasters to comply with its regulations. We should point out, however, that the CRTC is not a board of censors. We do not have the authority to tell broadcasters what they can broadcast, nor can we act pre-emptively before a program has been aired.
This tells me that the CRTC has already decided that they aren't interested in taking a position on this issue, and that perhaps their mandate doesn't obligate them to do so.
If you scan through the these Acts of parliament, the closest you can find to a relevant argument is a provision that states that telecommunications carriers (i.e. the wholesalers, like Bell and Rogers, the people that own the physical lines) must provide to their resellers the equivalent service being offered to direct customers of the carriers themselves, or to customers of any other reseller or internally affiliated entity. Basically this means that if Bell wants to disable or limit a portion of the service that it provides, then it's free to do so as long as it does so globally.
Now on the Competition Bureau side of things, there are a number of subsections that might apply.
Price Fixing - doesn't apply, after all the CRTC does the price fixing for everbody 
Bid-Rigging - doesn't apply
False or Misleading representation - This might apply, except that if you read through the Bell wholesaler service agreement, or the Sympatico service agreement, Bell specifically reserves the right to block TCP and UDP ports as deemed necessary for prudent maintenance and security of their overall network. So they haven't falsely represented anything.
Abuse of Dominant position - might be a hook here, but the letters mentioned previously don't address that.
Exclusive Dealing - maybe
Refusal to Deal - maybe
My point is This, the Bureau or the CRTC, certainly aren't going to define policy that doesn't exist, while both organizations have a significant role in shaping reforms to their own legislative mandates, ultimately it will take an act of parliament to effect a change.
A smarter approach might be to follow the path of the Privacy Act, after all internet throttling is typically achieved through DPI (deep packet inspection), and it's arguable that it's illegal to snoop into my communications traffic. Canada Post isn't allowed to prioritize their delivery schedules based on the content of the letters, after all, the privacy act makes it illegal to inspect the contents, and if CPC should happen to discover the contents by accident even, they are obligated to ignore them and hold such a discovery as confidential.
Both the Bureau and the CRTC are certainly interested in being reponsive to Canadians' concerns, however letters that call for either Agency to act beyond the scope of their mandate are easy to file away as not requiring concrete action.
All that being said, Konrad Von Finckenstein is far more likely to try and effect policy by painting outside the lines of his mandate, than is Sheridan Scott, or so their track records would indicate, I think the best first step would be to flood both agencies with letters that simply delineate a concern over the issue. This doesn't allow the letters to be file thirteened, and if there's enough outcry, one of these Commissioners might decide to release a statement of position. Having an agency take a position on the issue, as it pertains to competitive, telecommunications, or privacy mandates, would offer a roadmap or atleast an initial direction for litigative action. |
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RIS
@teksavvy.com | reply to UT_CK
Sent the letter to the CRTC, MP, MPP, Dalton Mcguinty and Stephen Harper. I know that the latter ones won't care but it only took a minute to send it. |
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d5486
join:2008-02-26
·Bell Sympatico
| reply to UT_CK
do it for rogers too
they slow down torrents too
and its worse, they do it down to 5k!
this should not be allowed
if they allow this
next thing is the speeds
it s already happening
the slow speeds we have are 64k cable and 512k dsl!! in many countries you cannot even get less than 1M
AND as we all know
japan, europe, USA
all the `delevoped world` except canada is getting much more, for less...
verizon/fios is $50 a month for 20M
fiber to home. |
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El Quintron
@acanac.net
| reply to UT_CK
I have sent my concerns as has my spouse.
Although the topic for legitimate uses of Bit Torrent has been done to death on this and other forums, I still have to state getting Linux distros and Distributing your own movies through Bit Torrent is the most efficient means of distribution available to someone like me.
The Bandwidth/Piracy argument is garbage.
Seriously why are my tax dollars being used to defend a faulty business model is still beyond me.
At least by Harassing the CRTC I can be assured that my tax dollars are going to something I'm paying for, which is a government agency that will (with a lot of prodding) look after my interests.
I use Acanac as an ISP because Bell/Rogers use Traffic Shaping, I don't want this used on my connection when I'm going out of my way to avoid it.
Also I'm switching my Land line to Tech direct, it is the only thing I have left to take away from Bell, so I'm doing it tomorrow. |
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mazhurg
Premium
join:2004-05-02
Portage La Prairie, MB
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·MTS
| reply to jfmezei
said by jfmezei :not yet been convinced there is a case, but when informally probed has implied there was a string case. You meant strong? |
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vintagewino
join:2003-07-22
Grimsby, ON | reply to UT_CK
Bell throttling ISP
Letters sent to my MP, Competition Bureau, CRTC. Let's hope this starts something to our favour. |
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jfmezei
Premium
join:2007-01-03
Beaconsfield, QC
·ELECTRONICBOX
| reply to UT_CK
Re: Generic Letter to Competition Bureau re: Bell throttling ISP
When you send your letters to the competition bureau, you really need to be factual and not just complain about it, you need to show exactly how this move prevents competition.
(aka: Bell imposing Sympatico policies on all ISPs to prevent them from offering features that differentiate them from Sympatico).
There is also the issue of ISPs having marketed services that they are no longer able to provide because of Bell.
There is also the issue of Bell saying that measures are necessary because users who download music/videos are impacting their neighbours at the same time that Bell advertises on TV that with its technolgy, people can download music/videos without affecting neighbours.
The neighbourhood pigeon has told me that his fortune teller has heard through the grapevine that the Bureau has not yet been convinced there is a case, but when informally probed has implied there was a string case.
The "advertising" issue is dealt by a different group at the competition bureau, so make sure you put those arguments either in a separate letter, or in a clearly different paragraph/section of your letter. |
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inferno_gn
Premium
join:2007-02-26
Verdun, QC
| reply to UT_CK
Hi there,
"There's nothing greater in the world than when somebody on the team does something good, and everybody gathers around to pat him on the back." - Billy Martin
Good quote... 
inferno_gn
--
Otaku Anime Network
»www.otakuanime.com/ |
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busyboy
@teksavvy.com | reply to UT_CK
I have sent some emails to BCE. Got a reply saying it was forward to exective department. Also got a phone call from Bell, telling me to contact Carleton U. |
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R0CKY
TSI Rocky
Premium,VIP
join:2005-05-19
Chatham, ON | reply to diskace
Ahh... ok... cool stuff. |
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diskace
Ebox Senior
Premium,VIP
join:2002-02-21 | reply to R0CKY
Don't get me wrong. I agree that we need to all voice a concern too. Sorry for the confusion.
--
Electronic Box Inc. |
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R0CKY
TSI Rocky
Premium,VIP
join:2005-05-19
Chatham, ON
| reply to diskace
said by diskace :Please don't flood the members of the parliament for the moment. I am already in contact with the minister in charge of the CRTC and the opposition. ??? What are you talking about.... IF THINGS ARE TO CHANGE... WE HAVE TO "ALL" VOICE A CONCERN.
Don't mean to be negative with this one diskace, but back-door lobbying right now won't get anywhere. The TELCOs/CABLECOs are too entrenched.
--
TSI Rocky - TekSavvy Solutions Inc. |
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Trisomy21
join:2006-04-27
Kingston, ON
1 edit | reply to diskace
said by diskace :Please don't flood the members of the parliament for the moment. I am already in contact with the minister in charge of the CRTC and the opposition. I hardly doubt he'll be flooded. They actually responded pretty quickly asking for my home address to reply by snail mail hah. And have mailed the CRTC, CBC and The Competition Bureau. Just trying to do my part. |
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