rblomeyer
join:2007-08-30
Lisle, IL
| Waiting with "baited breath" in Lisle for improved QOS
Friends:
I've been quick to grumble and whine about my AT&T DSL when it was occasionally unreliable. It's only fair I should report preliminary evidence; possibly foreshadowing positive developments.
Yesterday, an AT&T field rep knocked on my door. I answered, we talked, and this is what I learned.
AT&T is working on "cleaning the lines" in my subdivision, to enable providing television programming as a service option to Dupage county IL subscribers.
I probed to find out more about what this means. AT&T's underground wiring follows an "abatement" under the back of my lot and I was curious about what it might mean for the roots of nearby trees.
He admitted the copper pairs carrying the signal now are a Kafka-esque maze of splices and dead ends; resulting from years of unsystematic maintenance on what began as a POTS, analog, copper installation.
He indicated they're pulling new fiber through the underground races to replace the spaghetti/copper (!?!) and assured me that there would soon be an unbroken, un-spliced run between my Telco terminal and the nearest POP, and EVENTUALLY be fiber all the way to my Telco Terminal.
I asked him about digging and he assured me there would be none; only pulling.
I told him about a "cyclonic wind storm" (a year or so ago)back that twisted a half cord of maple (one big piece) from one of my trees & dropped it squarely on top of their distribution box (pole); bending it at a 45 degree angle.
At the time there was no interruption in service & no one was interested in even surveying the scene. I had to remove the limb myself and subsequently attempted to right their distribution box... but it still "lists."
He said he'd take a closer look at it...
I don't have anything substantial to report yet about improved QOS. I can report that it's stopped snowing, the sun is out, and there is an AT&T crew in my back yard, poking around in the distribution box.
Somehow, this all reminds me of Prokiev's "Peter and the Wolf" where the wolf paces round and round the tree, looking up at the cat and bird with "greedy eyes."
If & when there's anything verifiable to report (cat, bird, or evidence of improved QOS), I'll let you all know.
Waiting with baited breath.
BobBl
(This makes me THE HUNGRY WOLF!! LOL!!!!!) |
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wings10
I Am Legend
Premium
join:2004-06-09
South Elgin, IL
 ·Dish Network
 ·AT&T DSL Service
 ·Comcast
| said by rblomeyer  :Friends: I've been quick to grumble and whine about my AT&T DSL when it was occasionally unreliable. Occasionally or all the time? Anything will occasionally go down or have issues.
--
"The American Indians found out what happens when you don't control immigration." |
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rblomeyer
join:2007-08-30
Lisle, IL
| Understood.
My "package" nominally has 512 up and 3 mb down. Actual performance norms have been more like 450kb/2200mb. That's acceptable.
I've complained in this forum when tests showed results consistently below 150kb up and less than 500 kb down.
I haven't generally complained here publicly when there have been fluctuations lasting less than 4-5 days.
When things have gotten and stayed "bad," I've said something about it here and provided data for people to examine to verify I'm not a crank or a cyber-hypochondriac.
My postings are still available in this forum for anyone to read. Decide for yourself.
BobBl |
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wings10
I Am Legend
Premium
join:2004-06-09
South Elgin, IL | reply to rblomeyer
I have the same package.
--
"The American Indians found out what happens when you don't control immigration." |
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rblomeyer
join:2007-08-30
Lisle, IL
| Here's mine from Argonne's ANL server. I trust them more.
----------------------------------
TCP/Web100 Network Diagnostic Tool v5.5.1
click START to begin
Connected to: miranda.ctd.anl.gov -- Using IPv4 address
Checking for Middleboxes . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Done
checking for firewalls . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Done
running 10s outbound test (client-to-server [C2S]) . . . . . 416.0kb/s
running 10s inbound test (server-to-client [S2C]) . . . . . . 127.01kb/s
Your PC is connected to a Cable/DSL modem
[S2C]: Packet queuing detected
------------------
That's typical for mine.
BobBl |
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wings10
I Am Legend
Premium
join:2004-06-09
South Elgin, IL
·Dish Network
·AT&T DSL Service
·Comcast
| said by rblomeyer :Here's mine from Argonne's ANL server. I trust them more. I take all online speed tests with a grain of salt. 
--
"The American Indians found out what happens when you don't control immigration." |
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RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
·AT&T Midwest
1 edit | reply to rblomeyer
It's "bated".
said by Merriam-Webster :Main Entry:
bate
Pronunciation:
\ˈbāt\
Function:
verb
Inflected Form(s):
bat·ed; bat·ing
Etymology:
Middle English, short for abaten to abate
Date:
14th century
transitive verb
1: to reduce the force or intensity of : restrain < with bated breath >
2: to take away : deduct
3 archaic : to lower especially in amount or estimation
4 archaic : bluntintransitive verbobsolete : diminish, decrease
Unless your mean your breath smells of small fish or worms.
--
Toolmaster of La Grange. |
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rblomeyer
join:2007-08-30
Lisle, IL
| Not me. It's AT&T that's been wormy.
As I began with a conceptual metaphor using the Wolf from "Peter and the Wolf," it almost works as a pun. Maybe you're being too literal minded.
In defense of the AT&T moles who were in my back yard this AM, it's now graced by a shiny new distribution box. Performance is about the same:
--------------------
TCP/Web100 Network Diagnostic Tool v5.5.1
click START to begin
Connected to: miranda.ctd.anl.gov -- Using IPv4 address
Checking for Middleboxes . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Done
checking for firewalls . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Done
running 10s outbound test (client-to-server [C2S]) . . . . . 407.0kb/s
running 10s inbound test (server-to-client [S2C]) . . . . . . 1.92Mb/s
Your PC is connected to a Cable/DSL modem
--------------
But the new distribution box shines nicely in the afternoon sun.
BobBl |
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ILpt4U
Premium
join:2006-11-12
Lisle, IL
·AT&T Yahoo
 ·AT&T U-Verse
 ·magicjack.com
| reply to rblomeyer
The fiber pull is AT&T getting ready to bring U-Verse in your neighborhood. It will be an offering of IPTV Television, Broadband Internet, and a choice of a POTS or VOIP telephone line. For the time being it will be fiber to within at most 3000 ft of your house, and the rest over copper. I would guess that at some point in the future, it will become fiber all the way to your house, but that could easily be years away.
If you only want the internet portion of U-Verse, that is possible too. The price is the same as the regular Pro Package DSL (or so I have heard), and you get the FULL 3 meg down, and you get 1 meg up. Other tiers of service for the internet are 1.5 down/1 up (express), 6 down/1 up (elite), and 10 down/1.5 up (max). There is no loss of .5 meg down for overhead with U-Verse internet.
After they pull the fiber thru, the next thing you will notice is next to your neighborhood phone cross box, a new tan colored box will be next to it -- called a VRAD, and that is where the Fiber comes to deliver the U-Verse Service that is then connected to your incoming phone line, and then you have it. |
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Waterbug
join:2008-03-30
| reply to rblomeyer
said by rblomeyer :Friends: AT&T is working on "cleaning the lines" in my subdivision, to enable providing television programming as a service option to Dupage county IL subscribers. That "cleaning the lines" is the line conditioning that should have been done with the introduction of DSL service. Someone at at&t has finally figured out that when a tech comes out to condition one pair, he can do the rest of the pairs in that terminal in only a few more minutes. (all the pairs probably have the same bridge taps, loads etc.) They are eliminating the potential for 10 additional dispatches for pairs in the same box.
This may result in improved service for DSL customers whose pairs have never been properly "conditioned". The down side is that litespeed conditioned pairs are permanently assigned and are very difficult to change. When your pair goes BAD, it must be fixed and not just transferred to another good pair. If your pair is a "lemon" it may stay that way for a long time. |
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rblomeyer
join:2007-08-30
Lisle, IL
| reply to ILpt4U
Joe:
Thanks for the useful info. I'll watch for a tan box near the shiny, lt. green "pole" now gracing the back of my lot.
What the AT&T technician told me about a painless "switch-over" (3-28) makes lot more sense now. Still, I'm not inclined to try holding my breath till then.
If and when that happens, I'll know to inquire about U-Verse internet; as opposed to my current DSL package w. 3 Mb down & .5 Kb up (promised but not actual).
If Waterbug is right in the following post, I might never realize improved QOS over the installed DSL pair.
BobBl |
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Dennis
Premium,Mod
join:2001-01-26
Algonquin, IL
·AT&T Yahoo
Host:
Chicago
Users Find Hot Deals
Users find Hot Dea..
Requests for Hot D..
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| I just got the same results almost on the test:
TCP/Web100 Network Diagnostic Tool v5.5.1
click START to begin
Connected to: miranda.ctd.anl.gov -- Using IPv4 address
Checking for Middleboxes . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Done
checking for firewalls . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Done
running 10s outbound test (client-to-server [C2S]) . . . . . 426.0kb/s
running 10s inbound test (server-to-client [S2C]) . . . . . . 1.81Mb/s
Your PC is connected to a Cable/DSL modem
but I'm sync'd at:
Connected at 3008 Kbps (downstream)
512 Kbps (upstream)
meh...grain of salt indeed.
--
My Blog. Because I desperately need the acknowledgement of others.
Meet my son, Connor. |
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Jon
Premium
join:2001-01-20
Lisle, IL
| reply to rblomeyer
said by rblomeyer :AT&T is working on "cleaning the lines" in my subdivision, to enable providing television programming as a service option to Dupage county IL subscribers. What subdivision would that be? |
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rblomeyer
join:2007-08-30
Lisle, IL
| reply to Waterbug
Waterbug:
You seemingly speak with authority. Are there any circumstances under which AT&T would consider switching my DSL service over to a different pair?
I pay for two POTS lines. Each has two pairs w. inside pairs carrying phone service for both lines. My second phone line is for fax only and isn't used much.
The two numbers have different exchanges & terminate at switches in different locations. I requested AT&T to install my DSL originally on the unused pair for the primary number.
I question whether or not AT&T did much "conditioning" when they originally installed DSL on my primary line. That entire history is documented in posts here; if anyone is interested.
The current DSL performance is better than connecting at 40-45 Kb tops over a modem. But your reference to a "lemon line" is hauntingly familiar.
What (if anything) would persuade AT&T to try switching the DSL connection to the outside pair on "line two" and conditioning that line?
It could precipitate a change for the better, or for the worse. It might go either way.
Here's my most recent test from Argonne's ANL server:
--------------------
TCP/Web100 Network Diagnostic Tool v5.5.1
click START to begin
Connected to: miranda.ctd.anl.gov -- Using IPv4 address
Checking for Middleboxes . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Done
checking for firewalls . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Done
running 10s outbound test (client-to-server [C2S]) . . . . . 420.0kb/s
running 10s inbound test (server-to-client [S2C]) . . . . . . 1.94Mb/s
Your PC is connected to a Cable/DSL modem
----------------
Honestly, that's the best performance I've seen for a while. Consistently dropping over a Mb downstream seems like a lot to me.
Do I live with the DSL as is? Or, realistically, is there anything AT&T can do to improve my current DSL QOS?
Or... do I watch and wait for that mythical "tan colored box" signaling the advent of U-Verse in my neighborhood?
BobBl
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rblomeyer
join:2007-08-30
Lisle, IL | Jon:
The Meadows (I) in Lisle.
BobBl |
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RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
·AT&T Midwest
| reply to rblomeyer
That server is not reliable, even though you might think it would be given it's location. It has never worked right for me in 8 years. What does your modem show for sync rates?
Try testing your speed here: »www.speedtest.net/ . Use the Chicago test (Speakeasy), which you should default to.
--
Toolmaster of La Grange. |
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wings10
I Am Legend
Premium
join:2004-06-09
South Elgin, IL
·Dish Network
·AT&T DSL Service
·Comcast
| reply to rblomeyer
said by rblomeyer :Here's mine from Argonne's ANL server. I trust them more. Well you should not trust just a speed site. And if anything should try more then on site to see where your speed is at.
--
"The American Indians found out what happens when you don't control immigration." |
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rblomeyer
join:2007-08-30
Lisle, IL
| This is for those of you who believe speed testers created, maintained and operated by the providers and telcos are "best" (if not efficacious) performance mesures, check THESE results from Argonne's ANL server:
---------------------------------------------
TCP/Web100 Network Diagnostic Tool v5.5.1
click START to begin
Connected to: miranda.ctd.anl.gov -- Using IPv4 address
Checking for Middleboxes . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Done
checking for firewalls . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Done
running 10s outbound test (client-to-server [C2S]) . . . . . 417.0kb/s
running 10s inbound test (server-to-client [S2C]) . . . . . . 293.24kb/s
Your PC is connected to a Cable/DSL modem
[S2C]: Packet queuing detected
--------------------------------------------
That's THE best downstream speed test I've seen since my AT&T DSL was installed; period!
The last week was apparently without noticable performance inconsistencies. It was "nice."
BobBl
BobBl |
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RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11 | Whoever said that? Not really sure what your point is.
--
Toolmaster of La Grange. |
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rblomeyer
join:2007-08-30
Lisle, IL
| Two points:
1. I don't trust performance data as reported by tools provided by either telcos or service providers. I do trust Argonne because they have nothing to gain or lose by biasing their metrics.
I'm not suggesting anything other than that our opinions about which broadband performance metrics are "trustworthy" differ substantially. You have your rationale for your beliefs, and I have mine.
2. When I signed up for AT&T DSL, things worked "right" for about 30 days. The line speed stabilized and "settled in" at a downstream speed of about 2.8 Gbps. Then my neighborhood experienced a 72 hour power outage and when the DSL came back up it's performance was at best "inconsistent."
I'd known about DSL reports for some time. But since I didn't at the time have a DSL, I didn't create an identity or post in the forums. But READING the forums I learned that AT&T "lurk" her and do "damage control" if any customer publicly says too many negative things about their QOS; in ways that can't be dismissed or demeaned.
Hence, I began posting detailed accounts documenting my poor QOS in this forum for all to read. Over time, my "strategy" has either made a difference or the appearance of an AT&T service crew in my back yard, and the recent "independently measured" improvement in my downstream speed was only a coincidence.
My advice to AT&T DSL subscribers is simply this:
High speed internet access is a VERY competitive marketplace. Comcast, AT&T and ALL the major telcos & providers are justifiably sensitive about well documented and articulate public criticism.
IF YOU THINK YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH YOUR AT&T DSL QUALITY OF SERVICE, YOU PROBABLY DO. In that case, you should start posting "DETAILED" and authoritative accounts describing those problems here and don't let yourself be intimidated, dismissed, or "laughed out of it" by forum readers who may be AT&T employees doing "damage control."
Remember, it's much cheaper for AT&T to discourage complainers than it is do the work needed on their infrastructure to fix most of their inherited network problems.
People DSL subscribers probably don't know the difference between good and bad service, don't know how to document or describe it (one way or the other), or who to report it to if they did.
Most subscribers with poor QOS probably might use the "trouble shooting" tools on the CD AT&T sends with the "self installation" package. Those diagnostic reasings are (in my opinion) probably "biased" (spun) to convince consumers that everything is JUST FINE... when it probably isn't.
That's all about AT&T keeping their customers "pacified," but without investing the big $$'s required to REALLY solve the infrastructure problems they're encountering during the transition between an analog POTS network; with lots of "dirty," spliced, and unterminated copper pairs underground.
I honestly tried calling those "support numbers" before I began posting the detailed public accounts here describing my variable and unreliable QOS. I talked to lots of nice young people in India (outsourced support) who knew considerably less about infrastructure design and troubleshooting network problems than I do myself.
Accounts of some of those useless and even "laughable" interactions were posted here when I first started. My interactions with "outsourced" DSL "technical support" personnel from Bangalore and New Delhi were the precipitating events that caused me to begin posting detailed accounts here.
A quote comes to mind that perfectly fitted my attitude at the time, from the classic cartoon Popeye:
"I'd had all I can stands. And I can't stands no more!"
When I first posting documented complaints here, a few "forum regulars" tried suggesting I didn't know what I was talking about, used humor to blunt my criticisms, and generally used all the rhetorical tricks available in a synchronous forum to intimidate a newby and shut 'em up.
It didn't and won't work with me. I'm still here and STILL POSTIN'! And I'll continue to "be here" until I have the fully reliable and "robust" broadband performance I was implicitly promised when I signed up for DSL with AT&T.
I'm a critic, but I'm also honest and I try to be "fair." It's important to me that I could publicly report (last posting) there was an "apparent" improvement in my QOS since AT&T technicians appeared at my door, and subsequently repaired the "distribution box" "on the back of my property (easement), and probably "cleaned up" the copper pairs inside.
That's done. Thanks AT&T for fixing something that needed to be fixed. I'm even hopeful now that someday in the foreseeable future (before I move or die...) a tan VRAD might appear next to the new, shiny green distribution box.
If and when that ever happens, I'll explore switching over to AT&T's mythical U-Verse. That "6 down/1 up (elite)" service joe_washu described sounds tempting.
Here's a suggestion for AT&T's "marketing people." I currently get all the hi-def TV signals I need off air. The quality of that service is so astoundingly good that I can only think of ONE THING that could possibly swing me to purchase television programming from AT&T, Comcast, or anyone else who is currently in our market.
That would be for AT&T to purchase the syndicated rights to current BBC programming; specifically to Doctor Who (Season 4) and to Torchwood (just finished Season 2).
Yes... I'm a geek who LOVES GOOD SCIFI! (You suspected it anyway, right?)
Both the current (David Tenant) Dr. Who and the Torchwood series is probably the best TV sci-fi television series that's ever been produced in the English language. It is too expensive for PBS to purchase broadcast right till YEARS after episodes are premiered in the UK.
No one in the Chicago market carries either series till years later. But Warner cable in Ohio and some other cable companies in the US DO syndicate this first rate BBC programming after not much more than a weeks delay.
I'm presently going to a "lot of trouble" to obtain copies of Who and Torchwood after they're broadcast in the UK.
If AT&T were to syndicate BBC's current programming and distribute Dr. Who, Torchwood, and other examples of their clearly superior TV programming, I'd happily disconnect my off-air antennas & signal boosters and become an AT&T television programming subscriber.
Don't say ever say rblomeyer hasn't done any favors for AT&T. If you lurkers pass on my suggestion to someone in Marketing, they'll probably end up with a big promotion.
If you do, send me their e-mail address so I can submit an invoice.
I feel better. This was fun! We should do this again sometime!! (unpack & play attachment)
BobBl
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