bgraham
join:2001-03-15
Smithtown, NY
 ·Verizon FIOS
1 edit | let's face it,
Why would VZ spend any more than necessary on technology that is a century old and probably will be gone in 10 years, at least in cities and towns.
Copper can now only provide a minimal piece of their services, POTS and DSL. Not TV or broadband that must be a large part of the billing dollars in a few years with the demise of the telephone to cell and VOIP.
Oh I forgot you need it for fax lines.
edit: also, I am not a telecom person (although I have the poles and the big box in my backyard)  , but surely after FIOS is run through a neighborhood it must cost a similar amount to connect a FTTP compared to having a couple of guys working for a day trying to fix some obscure copper problem. It is not unusual to have 2 or 3 repair crews working all day in my back yard. |
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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
Host:
Road Runner
PC gaming GAMES
PC gaming Tech
4 edits | quote:
Why would VZ spend any more than necessary on technology that is a century old and probably will be gone in 10 years, at least in cities and towns.
Well, the point is the unions, consumers and some PUC are claiming Verizon is spending less than is necessary for services customers are still paying for.
I'd also be willing to bet that in ten years, 35% of Verizon's infrastructure (or more) is still copper...Unless they "Fairpoint" those rural areas, which is likely. It's something nobody's talking about yet because we're bandwidth dazzled, but I'd bet FiOS deployment stops cold at 50-60% of the network, and the rest of their largely rural and third-tier city network is ultimately considered unprofitable and disposable. |
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bobgwen
join:2001-07-07
Bartow, FL
 ·Comcast
| exactly. the customer is paying verizon their bill each month. verizon should be keeping the copper up. There are a lot of folks in Verizon territory (myself included) who won't see fios or any other fiber to the whatever for several years more. It doesn't take that much to replace a section of copper cable. It's getting those 2nd or 3rd lines to let go of that money to keep the plant up. Get rid of those bad sections and temporary (hah) wraps. |
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cornelius785
join:2006-10-26
Worcester, MA
| reply to bgraham
it may be (should?) possible to do fax without copper. i think some company has adapters to go from fiber (VoIP??) to regular telephone copper wire pairs so people can use their old phones. a google search also suggests that there are fax machines with ethernet adapters. |
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PDXPLT
join:2003-12-04
Banks, OR
| reply to Karl Bode
said by Karl Bode  : I'd also be willing to bet that in ten years, 35% of Verizon's infrastructure (or more) is still copper...Unless they "Fairpoint" those rural areas, which is likely. It's something nobody's talking about yet because we're bandwidth dazzled, but I'd bet FiOS deployment stops cold at 50-60% of the network, and the rest of their largely rural and third-tier city network is ultimately considered unprofitable and disposable. That would fit with what VZ has told the regional franchise body in this area. Over the next ten years, FIOS and FIOS TV will be rolled out to the most affluent communities in the region. Then that's it - there are no plans to do anything else. |
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Telecom Vet
@rr.com
| reply to cornelius785
said by cornelius785 :it may be (should?) possible to do fax without copper. i think some company has adapters to go from fiber (VoIP??) to regular telephone copper wire pairs so people can use their old phones. a google search also suggests that there are fax machines with ethernet adapters. Its incredibly naive to suggest that "adapters" will provide the same exact interface and functionality as the incumbent copper lines - and it is certainly no excuse for shafting millions of customers.
I'm all for a nationwide upgrade to FIOS-like facilities. But FIOS hasn't exactly been standardized or proven yet, nor have non-VZ telcos adopted it, and we've yet to see exactly how it will be priced. And for such a critical national infrastructure as the switched network, you don't just abandon the customers overnight, by fiat or neglect. |
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N10Cities
SILENCE I Keel You
Premium
join:2002-05-07
Roland, OK
clubs:
·Cox HSI
 ·World Lynx
3 edits | reply to PDXPLT
said by PDXPLT :said by Karl Bode : I'd also be willing to bet that in ten years, 35% of Verizon's infrastructure (or more) is still copper...Unless they "Fairpoint" those rural areas, which is likely. It's something nobody's talking about yet because we're bandwidth dazzled, but I'd bet FiOS deployment stops cold at 50-60% of the network, and the rest of their largely rural and third-tier city network is ultimately considered unprofitable and disposable. That would fit with what VZ has told the regional franchise body in this area. Over the next ten years, FIOS and FIOS TV will be rolled out to the most affluent communities in the region. Then that's it - there are no plans to do anything else. If Verizon is not going to maintain their copper and are not voluntarily going to deploy FIOS network wide, then perhaps an update of the USF law would be in order.....REQUIRE them to roll it out and pay them from the fund....
But in this current political environment...pfffttt..... |
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EPS
join:2008-02-13
Hingham, MA
| I think that's exactly what Verizon wants- deploy FiOS to areas where they can make big $$$ on their own, make it prevalent enough that people in the rural areas want it, and then get the gov't to pay Verizon to deploy it, so they can make the money there too. |
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EPS
join:2008-02-13
Hingham, MA
| reply to cornelius785
FiOS telephone isn't VoIP- it uses the same principles that allow POTS to go over fiber-optic trunk lines, only closer to the home- I've heard of people doing things such as dial-up internet and it working fine, we have a fax machine and haven't had any problems. |
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Smith6612
Premium
join:2008-02-01
united state
 ·Dish Network
·Verizon Online DSL
·FrontierNet Intern..
1 edit | reply to bgraham
Well don't forget, Verizon is slowly building out their network to Fiber, so they are going to have to keep their copper up adn running and running good until Fiber comes, and when fiber does come in, ask people if they want their telephone to be moved onto the fiber only and if everyone does do that, they can easilly take down the copper.
As for Static, some family relativers that have a 60 year telephone line coming into their house had been giving them some trouble. No matter what the weather was like outside, their phone line at random parts of the day would become soo staticy that you could hardly make out the dial tone or the person on the other end, and the person on the other end could hear the buzzing load and clear. It's been a month since they first called it in, and Verizon still has the ticket in their computers. It's not as if they haven't been fixing it, they've been working to fix it, and they've done everything fron replacing the old Bell Atlantic NID, to running a new line from the house to the poll, going inside of their house for *FREE* to do a basic check in the basement, where they found a wire that as soon as they took the coating off of a section of it cracked and dusted up immediatly, to putting them on a completely new line pair and going down the entire line checking some stuff. The line's been good for about a week, but the last 4 fix attemps have all resulted in the buzzing coming back. They had gotten a service credit from Verizon over the buzzing as an apology, but they are hoping it won't buzz anymore. Also, their buzzing was soo bad, a dial-up modem could only connect at 0.5kbps... literally! |
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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
Host:
Road Runner
PC gaming GAMES
PC gaming Tech
2 edits | reply to N10Cities
quote:
But in this current political environment...pfffttt.....
Ding.
Ultimately, Verizon will probably convince Uncle Sam to approve a half-baked plan, cooked up by Verizon lobbyists to give them billions in taxpayer dollars to use on limited rural deployment of next-gen networks. But nobody in the government will effectively track spending, and nobody will independently track Verizon deployment claims, and the problem of deployment service holes will continue.
Some argue that's essentially what this new "Connected Nation" proposal is. Except in that case, Connected Nation takes State funds, puts on a dog and pony show with incumbent partners, and then fudges the numbers to make it look like something's actually being done. |
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DaveNJ
No Fear
join:1999-09-01
New Jersey
·Comcast
·Patriot Media
| reply to Smith6612
said by Smith6612 : It's been a month since they first called it in, and Verizon still has the ticket in their computers. It's not as if they haven't been fixing it, they've been working to fix it, and they've done everything fron replacing the old Bell Atlantic NID, to running a new line from the house to the poll, going inside of their house for *FREE* to do a basic check in the basement, where they found a wire that as soon as they took the coating off of a section of it cracked and dusted up immediatly, to putting them on a completely new line pair and going down the entire line checking some stuff. The line's been good for about a week, but the last 4 fix attemps have all resulted in the buzzing coming back. They had gotten a service credit from Verizon over the buzzing as an apology, but they are hoping it won't buzz anymore. Also, their buzzing was soo bad, a dial-up modem could only connect at 0.5kbps... literally! The response for this is get cable telephone. Its the only way verizon reacts to its customers. My one remaining telco line might get moved over, after the mean rep i spoke to, about credit for an outage. Sometimes the best fix is to cancel.
--
“Say no to fear. Don’t let anxiety crush your life. Live life free and unfettered.”
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A tech
@verizon.net
| reply to bgraham
The cable in your backyard is probably older than your great grandparents. It's trying to fix something that can no longer be repaired. Verizon engineering are not allowed anymore to go out a put a new work order for replacement. In the meantime the customer suffers. The neglect of the current infrastructure- copper - will have some negative impact on Fios. WHY?? customers are not stupid. Some of the attitude is that, the current landline comes off a 40 to 60 year old cable , in which customer suffer chronic troubles. They figure imagine the trouble i'm going to have with a new technology that verizon is offering. It doen't matter how much more reliable it is, it's the point of VERIZON neglect of service quality. I am a Verizon technician , who has been told from numerous customers, that they wouldn't think about going to FIOS, that's a sad situation for everyone. |
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Corydon
Cultivant son jardin
Premium
join:2008-02-18
Denver, CO
clubs:
·Comcast
| reply to N10Cities
said by N10Cities :If Verizon is not going to maintain their copper and are not voluntarily going to deploy FIOS network wide, then perhaps an update of the USF law would be in order.....REQUIRE them to roll it out and pay them from the fund.... But in this current political environment...pfffttt..... If I were on the city council of one of those third-tier cities that Verizon isn't going to bother with, then I'd consider finding ways to come up with the funding to run the fiber throughout my city myself, run it as a utility and charge Verizon, AT&T, Comcast, TWC or anyone else who wants to offer service for the privilege of distributing their service over my fiber.
I'd sell it to the state and to the feds as an investment in infrastructure like roads, bridges, water supply lines or sewage treatment and get them to chip in as well. |
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EPS
join:2008-02-13
Hingham, MA | And your local friendly telco lobbyists would tell the state and the feds that you were destroying the American economy with your socialist unfair competition and kill the project  |
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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
Host:
Road Runner
PC gaming GAMES
PC gaming Tech
1 edit | quote:
If I were on the city council of one of those third-tier cities that Verizon isn't going to bother with, then I'd consider finding ways to come up with the funding to run the fiber throughout my city myself, run it as a utility and charge Verizon, AT&T, Comcast, TWC or anyone else who wants to offer service for the privilege of distributing their service over my fiber.
quote:
And your local friendly telco lobbyists would tell the state and the feds that you were destroying the American economy with your socialist unfair competition and kill the project
Precisely.
First, Verizon and AT&T have lobbied to pass laws BANNING you from operating your own alternative provider. Second, if they haven't, they'll spend millions smearing your project locally via push polls, disinformation, and other local advertising.
If you survive the lobbying power of incumbents, you can expect the Ayn Rand and Milton Friedman devotees to crucify you for using taxpayer money for something useful, as opposed to bailing out massive banking institutions or blowing up countries for profit.
And this of course is all contingent on your plan actually being financially sound before you spend a million or two fighting your local incumbent telco and cableco in court. (Google "Utopia fiber", who had a similar plan, and I now hear are struggling with financial issues after doing battle extensively with Qwest).
So yes. Godspeed!  |
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N3OGH
Bear patrol must be working like a charm
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
·Verizon FIOS
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to Karl Bode
said by Karl Bode :Ding. Ultimately In the past, Verizon will probably convince(ed) Uncle Sam Harrisburg, Pennsylvania to approve a half-baked plan, cooked up by Verizon lobbyists to give them billions in taxpayer dollars to use on limited rural deployment of next-gen networks. But nobody in the government will effectively track spending, and nobody will independently track Verizon deployment claims, and the problem of deployment service holes will continue. Sorry Karl, I couldn't resist....
Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it.
Those of us in Pennsylvania still remember being swindled out of a big pile of cash by Verizon.
Funny, all of New Castle County Delaware is wired up for FiOS, but my house just across the border in PA isn't yet.
Same shit, different day....
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Petty people are disproportionably corrupted by petty power… |
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PDXPLT
join:2003-12-04
Banks, OR
| reply to Karl Bode
said by Karl Bode : Ultimately, Verizon will probably convince Uncle Sam to approve a half-baked plan, cooked up by Verizon lobbyists to give them billions in taxpayer dollars to use on limited rural deployment of next-gen networks. Well that's exactly what they've been doing already. Tauke, the Gov't Affairs VP, has been busy testifying in DC that gov't "assistance" will be necessary before VZ even considers deploying any broadband to areas where the ROI isn't as high as it is in the areas they've deployed to already ... |
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funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC | Do you have FIOS in Banks? |
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patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
| reply to Karl Bode
"Fairpoint"ing is hard. States will be furious if they try to cut up operations inside the state. Counties and towns will go ballistic and there will be court cases over how Verizon decides which street will the border between Verizon and the Verizon offspring. If they try to draw lines around suburbs and farms in new/outer suburbs, they will be in a world of hurt. |
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