SafireDonkey
join:2006-10-29
89000
1 edit | [Discussion] Defragging Opinions
The ultimate harddisk destroyer. |
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howie
Premium,MVM
join:2003-04-08
Little Falls, NJ
1 edit | Re: [Update] PerfectDisk 2008 - Build 52
I'd have to disagree. A fragmented drive will cause more wear and tear than running defragmentation software on a regular basis. Highly fragmented drives cause the read/write heads to jump all over the platters as fragmented files are read. I have six year old 80GB drive that's been running almost daily and defragmented weekly (or more often) and it still has zero bad sectors.
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N.Y. Giants - Super Bowl XLII Champions |
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Anon00
Premium
join:2001-09-25
USA
| Thanks to all assisting me, I don't think its PD causing the issue. Hopefully I can track down the issue, otherwise I'll have to live with it as there's no indication there's any corruption going on.
--
"Ah, women. They make the highs higher and the lows more frequent." - Friedrich Nietzsche
"'It's the law' is just an excuse for the unintelligent and unimaginative to remain that way" - Me |
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SafireDonkey
join:2006-10-29
89000
| reply to howie
said by howie  :I'd have to disagree. A fragmented drive will cause more wear and tear than running defragmentation software on a regular basis. Highly fragmented drives cause the read/write heads to jump all over the platters as fragmented files are read. I have six year old 80GB drive that's been running almost daily and defragmented weekly (or more often) and it still has zero bad sectors. Hi howie,
I think there is no better way of wearing and tearing than a background defragger than will constantly swap stuff on your HDs.;) |
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howie
Premium,MVM
join:2003-04-08
Little Falls, NJ
| Hi, SD... I never use a background defragger so you may very well be right about that. I prefer to do a manual defrag every week or so and this normally takes just a few minutes. The only two drives I've lost since the mid-90's died within days/weeks of installation and I attribute this to defective drives.
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N.Y. Giants - Super Bowl XLII Champions |
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OZO
Premium
join:2003-01-17
| reply to SafireDonkey
You're making a good point. Running defragger may cause extra wear and tear. Actually, it depends on the strategy which that defragger enforces.
If a strategy is to conglomerate all files on one place (usually at the beginning of the partition) and, by doing so, make one big file-free space - it certainly will swap stuff on HD almost every time you run it (making unnecessary wear and tear for it). It's because one small free space that appears since the previous run will cause defragger to move all files beyond this point to make those files consolidated in one big chunk of files again...
I see that many of defraggers are implementing this strategy, including for example JkDefrag. It's pretty good defragger and I like it, but it's implementing the strategy above. And, as a result, I run it only once per several months. I do not need to move all files just for the sake of a move...
If defragger doesn't implement that strategy and makes only plain defragmentation job for files that need it - it's better, and I think it actually saves HD from extra wear and tear. But you have to watch and recognize that...
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Keep it simple, it'll become complex by itself... |
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La Luna
Surviving Ashraful
Premium
join:2001-07-12
Warwick, NY
clubs:
 ·Optimum Online
 ·Vonage
| reply to SafireDonkey
Re: [Discussion] Defragging Opinions
I've always defragged (currently manually w/PerfectDisk on XP Pro and Auslogics Disk Defrag on XP Home, auto defrag disabled), not excessively, maybe once a month or so, and have never had a problem.
It seems to me that running with a heavily fragmented drive would cause it to work harder which would be more likely to cause performance problems and wear and tear on the drive. |
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bruzzes
Premium
join:2001-04-26
Euclid, OH
·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to SafireDonkey
I defrag at an average of 10-20 times per week.
I have done so since 1993 with two computers owned over that time span.
Each computer has been used for over 7 years before being replaced.
I have been following these types of discussions for 15 years.
I have never had a hard drive problem.
--
"Where am I" I asked. "Your on the Island of Conclusions" he replied. "How did I get here?" said I. "Why you jumped here, of course" |
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Bob Anderson
join:2001-05-05
Ottawa, ON | reply to SafireDonkey
I manually defrag my 80 gig SATA once a week using the native XP defragger and have been doing so for two and a half years. I run SpinRite 6 at level 5 every three months and have never encountered a problem.
-Bob |
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La Luna
Surviving Ashraful
Premium
join:2001-07-12
Warwick, NY
clubs:
·Optimum Online
·Vonage
| reply to bruzzes
said by bruzzes :I defrag at an average of 10-20 times per week.... Out of curiosity, why so often?  |
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dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast
| reply to SafireDonkey
Looks like I really should defrag, eh? 
A defragged drive runs less to do the same job.
Overall, defragging lowers wear and tear on the drive.
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera |
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Jeffrey
too dark too early
Premium
join:2002-12-24
Dix Hills,NY
clubs:
·Optimum Online
 ·Verizon FIOS
·Vonage
·magicjack.com
| reply to howie
Re: [Update] PerfectDisk 2008 - Build 52
said by howie :I'd have to disagree. A fragmented drive will cause more wear and tear than running defragmentation software on a regular basis. Highly fragmented drives cause the read/write heads to jump all over the platters as fragmented files are read. I have six year old 80GB drive that's been running almost daily and defragmented weekly (or more often) and it still has zero bad sectors. I agree with you. I had become lazy with defragging one of my drives that gets a lot of use. When I noticed it wasn't working quite as fast as it had in the past, I decided to defrag it, as I knew it had been a while. It was something like 50% fragmented. So, I ran Auslogics and got it down to 44%. Did it again, got in down to 42%. Did it one more time, was down to 41%. Realizing that I wasn't getting anywhere, I formatted the sucker, and started fresh. 
I think I'll be running the defrag 2x/month on that drive from now on.
--
And so castles made of sand, slip into the sea, eventually.
I'm the Dude. So that's what you call me. You know, that or, uh, His Dudeness, or uh, Duder, or El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing. |
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quatrix
Premium
join:2005-02-11
Davie, FL
| reply to bruzzes
Re: [Discussion] Defragging Opinions
said by bruzzes :I defrag at an average of 10-20 times per week. I have done so since 1993 with two computers owned over that time span. Each computer has been used for over 7 years before being replaced. I have been following these types of discussions for 15 years. I have never had a hard drive problem. My stats are similar to yours, except that I defrag once every few months. I've also never had a hard drive problem, and there's no noticeable difference in performance after a defrag. And of course I didn't waste a bunch of time defragging. |
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Rxdoxx
Premium,Mod
join:2000-11-03
Middle River, MD
clubs:
·Verizon FIOS
·Comcast
Host:
Software
Washington & Balti..
| reply to SafireDonkey
I've learned to look at what is fragmented and make a decision based on that.
Years ago I used to just see the number/percentage of fragmentation and react to that. Then I made some adjustments.
I began downloading things to a main drive folder, then cut/paste them over to the storage drive. That step essentially defragged the file in the move. So my storage drives almost never need a defrag.
When I look at the fragmentation list (I use PD), most of the time it is Microsoft files that account for most if not all of items. (The Restore files seem always to be a big part).
So I have really slowed down on the number of times I defrag the drive. Maybe every 2 or 3 months, and that is usually because saved games has gotten messy.
Other files that tend to be fragmented are dealt with by using CCleaner, which removes the older AV update packages, and the temporary Java packages.
I may find something like 2000 fragmented files, that after I move things to storage and run CCleaner, the new fragmented files found has dropped to 6 or 700, and since I don't really use or access those files, I don't need to defrag just to make them neat. And my work-units for Folding at home are "self-cleaning" deleted when sent back to Stanford, so I ignore them also.
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Was a Cruise Fanatic, one cruise on Princess cured me. Bleah |
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nwrickert
sand groper
Premium,MVM
join:2004-09-04
Geneva, IL
·AT&T U-Verse
 ·AT&T Midwest
| reply to SafireDonkey
FAT and FAT32 file systems need periodic defragging, mostly due to inadequacies in the file system design. A decent file system should not require defragging. As far as I know, NTFS is a decent file system. I never bother to defrag.
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ZZZZZZZ
Premium
join:2001-05-27
PARADISE
|  reply to SafireDonkey
quote:
I defrag at an average of 10-20 times per week.
Thats insane,I defrag once a week,if I think about it.
I use JkDefrag now after having used most of the others over the years,Diskeeper,Vopt,Speed-disk,and find that it does a great job.
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~~Get our troops home...now!!~~ |
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acuraman
Outta shape new dad
Premium
join:2001-03-02
Campbell, CA | reply to SafireDonkey
I also use JkDefrag but I only run it once a month maybe every 2 months depending on my mood.
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"Motivation is simple. You eliminate those who are not motivated." |
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bruzzes
Premium
join:2001-04-26
Euclid, OH
·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to La Luna
said by La Luna :said by bruzzes :I defrag at an average of 10-20 times per week.... Out of curiosity, why so often? No real reason...
Maybe the one offered by another poster is as good as another...
The point being that excessive defraging does not neccesarily toast a hard drive.
(I love general statements)
For myself, there seems to be little if any measurable improvement whether one defrags every day or once a month with XP.
--
"Where am I" I asked. "Your on the Island of Conclusions" he replied. "How did I get here?" said I. "Why you jumped here, of course" |
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FutureMon
OW My Eyes
Premium,ExMod 2002-05
join:2000-10-05
Colorado Springs, CO
clubs:
| reply to SafireDonkey
Back in the day of Norton Speed Disk, one of the main reasons to Defrag was because for recoverability purposes, it's better to have your files in contiguous space.
If you had a HDD crash, you could fire up the Norton Disk Editor, go into physical disk mode, check the FAT for the starting cylinder/sector of your important file(s), then copy them off to floppy.
If these files were fragmented all over the place, you'd have to copy them off in multiple seperate passes of sectors-at-a-time, so it made it important to have a defragged drive as often as possible.
I worked for Peter Norton back then and I had to walk some users through this process of grabbing files off their HDD in physical mode, so I made it a point to tell them to defrag as often as possible in the future.
My bro and I had our systems set up so that when we went to shut them down, they'd do a quick defrag before turning off.
Nowadays, the built in XP defrag, doesn't seem to do as good of a job - still leaves stuff fragmented to my chagrin  but I've never evaluated any other optimizers once I moved to 2000/XP.
- FM
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Undisputed BBR Karaoke Champion! Care to challenge me? |
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Anonymous_
Anonymous
Premium
join:2004-06-21
127.0.0.1
clubs:
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4 edits | reply to howie
Re: [Update] PerfectDisk 2008 - Build 52
it might only gain me a few mbyte/s doing it so why bother at all
my does not work anyways
i also borke an drive 8 year old Western digital click, click, click....
it will work for 15 to 30 min's but i am too lazy to get any data off of it right now no Important Data just cd-keys etc...
after disk defragging
so your not safe :P ether way
i use disk keeper i got it for free with an computer that was free to me |
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