FastiBook
join:2003-01-08
Newtown, PA
 ·Verizon FIOS
| reply to Dogfather
Re: Last mile will kill them
You realize that FIOS has a totally different network structure to copper based technologies, right? The "last mile" has all most the same speed & latency as the first customer on the local "loop". Also, home density increase would decrease deployment costs as they could do the same work on laying lines & reach more people.
- Andy |
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Dogfather
Premium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA
 ·Cox HSI
·Verizon FIOS
 ·Cox VOIP
·ViaTalk
·RoadRunner Cable
 ·MegaPath
·Verizon west (ex G..
·Time Warner VOIP
3 edits | said by FastiBook  :You realize that FIOS has a totally different network structure to copper based technologies, right? The "last mile" has all most the same speed & latency as the first customer on the local "loop". Also, home density increase would decrease deployment costs as they could do the same work on laying lines & reach more people. - Andy Huh? I'm not talking about last mile performance. Read my post, I'm talking about last mile COST. Cost is INVERSLY PROPORTIONAL to density, so the more remote locations they try and deploy to, the more money per passed home it will cost. That increase in per home deployment cost will kill them if they attempt it. For those people I hope they do, I just don't see how it's financially possible with current technology. To do it they'll need a technology solution that keeps per home deployment in the $1000 or less range. |
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en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·DSL EXTREME
| Right ... decreased density (i.e. rural) markets become expensive. NYC = cost effective, even if its still expensive to deal with city costs. Building out rural Vermont/New Hampshire / Main would be better to use some form of wireless technology (seeh »www.look.ca).
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Canada = Hollywood North |
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BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
·Comcast
| reply to Dogfather
Where have you been ? FiOS installs costs are down to $600 and that is just phone and internet install , triple play installs are done to $900.
The fiber train is rolling along for Verizon. The american dollar going down the shitter is going to hurt them and boost costs once they eat through the current stock of gear. But that is expected around august to september. And expected to push costs up roughly $40 per install.
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" |
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N3OGH
Bear patrol must be working like a charm
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
·Verizon FIOS
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to Dogfather
I doubt the spectrum will exist to push high def VOD, 50 MBPS symmetrical internet and phone down a NLOS wireless solution in the next 5, let alone 10 years. Someone could make some incredible breakthrough in compression algorithms or come up with some snazzy new transmission mode, but there is NOTHING on God's green earth that will provide the bandwidth and upgrade ability of FTTH.
Verizon may very well be laying out upwards of $900 for a triple play install, but they will get that money back. Verizon knows it, and that's why they're talking about expanding their deployment.
With a decrease in land line revenue, Fios is a "deploy or die" gamble for Verizon. They have to move into TV to assure their revenue stream.
Besides, there's more benefit to deploying FTTH than just the revenue. Once uptake reaches a certain percentage of CO customers, you know Verizon will be looking to decommission or sell off their copper plant.
The maintenance and troubleshooting of a fiber network is much easier and cheaper than on a copper network.
A certain cadre of members here seem to constantly bash Verizon's FTTH efforts. Now, I'm not going to sit here and have a love in for Verizon. They screwed us ( the people of Pennsylvania) out of a sack of money the size of Veterans Stadium by way of tax breaks.
But, I must applaud them for having the vision to be the only incumbent provider to see that FTTH is the future, and spend the money doing it.
As the Fios creeps ever closer to my front door (only about 2 miles away now, WOO HOO) I know for sure the moment I find that hanger on my door, I'm signing up.
Even if it's just to get Comcast out of my life, I'm on board.
Verizon has done a fantastic job with both the technical and marketing aspects of Fios. They built an effective brand that people seem to have a high regard for, and I think they're going to make a lot of money.
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Petty people are disproportionably corrupted by petty power… |
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Dogfather
Premium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA
·Cox HSI
·Verizon FIOS
·Cox VOIP
·ViaTalk
·RoadRunner Cable
·MegaPath
·Verizon west (ex G..
·Time Warner VOIP
| reply to BosstonesOwn
The average so far has been $1300 ($24B/18M). No doubt those costs are coming down, but it's because the ONTs are getting cheaper and they're using existing coax.
But those saving disappear when you are starting to deploy into rural areas and you have to string or bury hundreds or thousands of fiber-feet between every home unlike typical tract neighborhoods of MDUs. |
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Dogfather
Premium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA
·Cox HSI
·Verizon FIOS
·Cox VOIP
·ViaTalk
·RoadRunner Cable
·MegaPath
·Verizon west (ex G..
·Time Warner VOIP
2 edits | reply to N3OGH
If that is the case (no reasonable alternative to last mile fiber) they'll have no choice but to sell off rural systems. Or they do U-Verse style offering or pure IPTV in those areas where last-mile doesn't have the same FTTH capacity.
There's no ROI on a $20,000 per home install or whatever sick amount of money it'll cost to do deployments in very rural areas. |
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patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
| reply to BosstonesOwn
I've noticed that Verizon is cheapening the install process. They have started using this system »www.corningcablesystems.com/web/···/flexnap
for 1 block long mini-branches (side streets) off of trunk lines rather than the innerduct system they used before. The pre-assembeled fiber also has pigtails already on it waiting for someone to clip the zip ties and plug the pig tail into a FDT, I'm not sure if the FDT will be installed when a customer orders, or later on in the build out process (this area isn't live yet). |
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BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs: | cool isn't it ? all this tech is driving down costs.
Personally I love it. |
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BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
·Comcast
| reply to Dogfather
Keyword is average 
BTW I am agreeing with ya here. Costs are coming down , cornings flexible fiber and the newer tools are reducing costs at staggering rates.
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" |
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Dogfather
Premium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA | Those MDUs mean a money tree for VZ. |
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patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
| reply to N3OGH
said by N3OGH :I doubt the spectrum will exist to push high def VOD, 50 MBPS symmetrical internet and phone down a NLOS wireless solution in the next 5, let alone 10 years. It can be done, crank up the SNR to the point where a bird will fall down dead if it flys in the path of the directional antenna on your house. When you find the dead bird in your yard, you can call the kids over b/c you have some fried chicken now. You will experiance packet loss while the bird cooks. |
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N3OGH
Bear patrol must be working like a charm
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs | MMMMMM, delicious packet loss.... |
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lvlorpheus
join:2008-02-17
Eureka Springs, AR
| reply to Dogfather
So are you saying two of the most profitable companies in this country in the past century never made their investment back in rural America. Or are you saying it is not worth investing in all Americans unless you can get a return on your investment in a few quarters or years.
A Brief History: Origins
»www.corp.att.com/history/history1.html
The AT&T Corp., formerly known as the American Telephone and Telegraph Corporation, is as old as the telephone itself. The company that became AT&T began in 1875, in an arrangement among inventor Alexander Graham Bell and the two men, Gardiner Hubbard and Thomas Sanders, who agreed to finance his work. Bell was trying to invent a talking telegraph -- a telephone. He succeeded, earning patents in 1876 and 1877.
This is a good read too.
»verizonpathetic.com/historylesson.html
And after all of this the poor phone companies lost money for their investment in rural America. Is that what I am to believe. |
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