Hayward
K A R - 1 2 0 C
Premium
join:2000-07-13
Key West, FL
| reply to databird
Re: DSL vs Cable
said by databird  :said by Hayward :PINGS only REALLY matter to gammers, especialy the lesser skilled ones.... I'm a skilled gamer, yet high pings adversely affect my performance. Please explain your theory or have it be considered nothing but hot air. Just where did I say that? Only that it effect less skilled ones more.
And that for most things slightly high pings are not all that important certainly not the like 20ms (2 hundreths sec) some gamers go bonkers over. Even VOIP doesn't get really negatively effected until much higher than that.
--
»haywardm.com (Hayward's Key West)
|
|
databird
join:2008-05-17
London, ON
2 edits | reply to Hayward
said by Hayward :PINGS only REALLY matter to gammers, especialy the lesser skilled ones.... I'm a skilled gamer, yet high pings adversely affect my performance. Please explain your theory or have it be considered nothing but hot air. |
|
Hayward
K A R - 1 2 0 C
Premium
join:2000-07-13
Key West, FL
3 edits | reply to databird
said by databird :You guys are forgetting pings. I've heard DSL generally gives better pings than does cable, especially if you're on an ADSL2+ connection with FastPath (as opposed to interleaving). PINGS only REALLY matter to gammers, especialy the lesser skilled ones.... and guess what no... the whole world doesn't game.... still FAR from it.
The other place it is of importance but to a MUCH lower degree is VOIP, has to be really bad to signifficantly impact that.
And there is no point to have DSL VOIP (Unless dry DSL becomes much more prevalent and lower than normal prices... they really haven't even where available).... VOIP is pretty much wholely a cable market.
Majic Jack (they survive) could be workable on DSL, but there are so many low cost, and pretty much Telco can't make you use anything any more, local or LD, still the monthly rate makes it not economic.
--
»haywardm.com (Hayward's Key West)
|
|
databird
join:2008-05-17
London, ON
2 edits | reply to jadebangle
You guys are forgetting pings. I've heard DSL generally gives better pings than does cable, especially if you're on an ADSL2+ connection with FastPath (as opposed to interleaving). |
|
centsofhumor
join:2007-01-20
Two Rivers, WI | reply to jadebangle
my dsl is fine, cheaper then charter.  |
|
GMurph2008
@spcsdns.net | reply to jadebangle
I re-route my Sprint Mobile Broadband, and while the download speeds aren't as fast, I think it's a better option for those who wish to add the mobility.
-G
Network Support in Maryland |
|
BinaryXtreme
join:2004-04-20
Sparks, NV | reply to dvd536
No, I have Charter cable and thank you for backing my point. |
|
dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
| reply to BinaryXtreme
said by BinaryXtreme :I don't know how to explain it but there is no lag in the loading like DSL has. Are you in Qwestland in nevada? with qwests interleave, you are at 32ms BEFORE you even get out of qwests network.
When i had qwest DSL, primetime hours were sub-dialup speeds so i used to use the backup dial account they gave you to bring my speeds to dialup speeds!
for what its worth my qwest DSL was a CAP line, not DMT on a cisco 675 DSL modem.
--
When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee |
|
OZO
Premium
join:2003-01-17
| reply to jadebangle
As it rightly was said earlier, both DSL and cable are based on old technology and as such are limited. DSL has speed limit, while cable has capacity limits (it's basically a shared media). Putting aside those limits for a moment (they're important and it's matter of the time when customers start demand more and both technologies will be eventually abandoned), there are several factors that are decisive for users like me. And that's why I still use DSL:
• there should be no blocked services and/or ports. I need to be able to run any service I want;
• I should be able to get a small pack of static IP addresses (as support for the point above);
• ability to maintain reverse DNS records.
DSL doesn't have any feature for me - I need more speed, than I have now (6M/768K). I know that DSL will not deliver. But, cable, from the other side, doesn't provide service I need (see points above) and I'll never switch to it because of that. Thus, I've got stuck unsatisfied... 
--
Keep it simple, it'll become complex by itself... |
|
Cheddah
join:2001-12-31
San Rafael, CA
| reply to Wolfie00
Yes I do agree that when it's something beyond a user's control, it is good to call it in but generally the times that I have called TS is when it's a complete outage and of course their response is that they're aware of it and are working on it. I am not sure who your ISP is, but when I call comcast it's 5-6 different menus that you need to get through while listening to them harp about their exciting new features/products that I have no interest of purchasing along with pay per view specials that are coming up. Such a waste of time. |
|
Wolfie00
My dog is an elitist
Premium
join:2005-03-12
| reply to Cheddah
said by Cheddah :I rarely if ever use tech support so I could care less about that. I agree with your comments, except that one. Tech support is about a lot more than calling up your ISP because your Internet doesn't work and you don't know what to do. It's also about intelligent and responsive action to a problem that is on their side, and that's where so many of them fall down. Dramatic loss of bandwidth, high latencies, protocol-specific communication failures -- those are all things that can and do happen. I will challenge anyone here on technical qualifications, and I need no help with local networking and equipment, but I still consider ISP technical support to be vitally important for the simple reason that I don't control anything outside the premises.
--
"Until he extends his circle of compassion to include all living things, man will not himself find peace" -- Dr. Albert Schweitzer
"A dog is like a child who never grows old ... always there to love and be loved" -- Aaron Katcher
|
|
Cheddah
join:2001-12-31
San Rafael, CA
| reply to jadebangle
Apples and oranges. I'll take whatever works the best in my area and is the most stable. I rarely if ever use tech support so I could care less about that. I had comcast last year and loved it and would have recommended it to anymone. Then I moved and now comcast is a POS connection with fluctuations in bandwidth and time outs all the time. I have their 16/2 service but would give that up for a more reliable DSL connection with less latency in a heartbeat but AT&T only has 1.5 connections in my area and that's too slow for me. Speed is not always the most important thing and you cable people posting speed-test screenshots and saying 'Cable roxorz my boxerz over DSL' have obviously never had to try to help a client using a VPN connection to work on a cable connection that keeps timing out. |
|
Wolfie00
My dog is an elitist
Premium
join:2005-03-12
| reply to tschmidt
said by tschmidt :Customer satisfaction has more to do with ISP business practices then underlying technology. Give that man a cigar!  That's the issue in a nutshell.
Cable and DSL are most assuredly very different, but the performance of each is determined much more by the policies of the ISP and the infrastructure provider (if that happens to be someone else) than by the inherent technology.
For example, DSL can be plagued by distance to the CO or DSLAM but a reputable DSL ISP won't make promises that can't be met, or feeble excuses after the fact. Cable has no distance issues but a less-than-reputable operator might overload the PHUB in preference to spending any money on segmentation and equipment upgrades. Either one can shaft you with throttling and traffic shaping and bandwidth caps. And the quality of customer service can make a huge difference as well.
So it all depends, completely and unpredictably, on exactly where your house is located. If I were making a decision in a new unfamiliar neighborhood, I'd find some knowledgeable folks in the immediate area who actually care what speeds they're getting, and ask them what they prefer! There's no way to give generic advice. It's too bad that so many cable operators are such idiots because they do have the technological edge and the theoretical ability to provide the highest bandwidth, but if their engineers are incompetent and they hire drunken monkeys as customer service staff, it doesn't really help!
--
"Until he extends his circle of compassion to include all living things, man will not himself find peace" -- Dr. Albert Schweitzer
"A dog is like a child who never grows old ... always there to love and be loved" -- Aaron Katcher
|
|
Siko
Premium
join:2006-11-27
Mechanicsburg, PA
clubs:
 ·Dish Network
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to jadebangle
said by jadebangle :I use to be a fanboy of dsl but today my opinion is completely changed after using cable for the first time since cable was introduced. As soon as I signup for cable from comcast I was surfing instantly. Why can't they do this on DSL? I'm on promotion rates 19.95 for 1 year surfing at 6/1 or 750kb/sec, 125kb/sec This blows my elite speed away which is 600kb/sec, 75kb/sec I'm paying less and getting more speed for it. I am beginning to realize that dsl is a poor man's version of cable with no potential due to ancient technology using copper wire that are so small that you need a microscope to be able to see the copper wire. They need to do away with DSL and many many people who have cable or fios is gonna put them out of business. I have use cellphone and pay only 40 a month Its convenient so I'm actually saving money by cancelling my landline, and dsl recently about 3 weeks ago. Cable is as widely available as dsl, the coaxial line have a much greater distance so 95 percent of cable subscriber are able to upgrade to any speed available. Cable really gives fios a run for it's money. With docsis 3.0 we're talking 152mbit/108mbit Pretty impressive IMHO. By using more channel, it will go up to 304mbit/108mbit I have been feeding the dsl monopoly since 2001, I have never subscribed to cable service even thought was able to get it. I bought into the hypes of dsl being not shared, dedicated line, never runs out of bandwidth use as much as you like. landline needs to be scraped and replace with something better such as cat5, capable of 1gbps 10 times faster then 100mbit standard ethernet. DSL being obsolete will be around for as long as consumer do not have a better alternative. What's keeping the landline monopoly alive? They make a lot of money off it. Their are people who needs to use their landline to make international call which makes them a lot of money. DSL shouldn't exist, it exist because of greed and a desperation for something faster then dialup. Because the speed of dsl is far less then cable users Its seems like dsl have more bandwidth. The majority of dsl user are on 384kbps, 768kbps, 1536kbps You can subscribe to many more users and without notice of network slowdown or congestion. That's what someone need to take into account when saying DSL has more bandwidth, more stable speed, never slows down. That's like saying 384kbps is smoother then 6mbit just because the slowdown isn't noticeable By the way, I just moved from cable to dsl last November. The downloads are as slow as heck. How did you get $19.99 for one year? The only thing I could find is 6 months. I'm a previous HSI member and I current have Comcast Expanded Basic Cable. |
|
s2000_racer
join:2008-06-22
Riverside, CA
| reply to jadebangle
 Cable all the way. |
|
Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI
 ·Site5.com
·AT&T Midwest
 ·Comcast
| reply to BinaryXtreme
quote:
For example, if your local Cable Internet provider has enough bandwidth in your area that can handle a lot of users, the speed of your connection will hardly be affected by this sharing. Also, if you use DSL and your DSL provider's central office if far away from your home, your connection will be slower than normal even though you aren't sharing that connection with anyone else. In such a case, Cable would be better, since Cable maintains its rate of data transfer better over long distances while higher ADSL speeds can be limited by distance.
Then you have oversubscription of DSL as well. In my area about 6 years ago, the CO was clearly oversubscribed. I had a few SBC techs that I knew personally that told me the CO was so full that during peak hours, if you got 1/3 of what you paid for you were lucky. |
|
lev
Napoleon is always right
Premium,Ex-mod 2002-08
join:2001-05-30
Chicago, IL
clubs:
·AT&T Midwest
| reply to jadebangle
In my case, and that for many of my clients, DSL has been the choice because up until recently, it was the only option that could provide static IP addresses with forward and reverse DNS over a DSL connection.
While I appreciate your enthusiasm, you are also on a promotional Comcast rate. Calculating price/performance at regular rates, DSL tends to win out.
Use what works best for you, but as much as you were an admitted fanboy for DSL, don't become one for cable. Most people who understand technology don't care much for people who just go with what they know and tell everyone else it's the best.
Rather, most things are best given certain circumstances.
While my Prius is generally a great car for me, I do have to borrow a van on the occasion I have to move something.
While my Macintosh is generally my computer of choice for creative work, anything is fine for browsing, and nothing beats the price/performance of a Linux box as a server for me.
And for me, DSL delivers more of the things I consider important than cable. :::shrug::: |
|
sbcretired
join:2006-01-07
Scottville, MI
·AT&T Midwest
| reply to jadebangle
If given a choice, and both are fairly reliable it comes down to "whats it worth in $$"
If money were no object then this discussion would be only about how fast. Many folks don't have tons of discretionary money, so we price shop too.
Then there is the trial periods for "packages" and when they expire many will say, I don't want to bother with changing the computer accounts/email again. |
|
BinaryXtreme
join:2004-04-20
Sparks, NV
·Charter Pipeline
1 edit | reply to shdesigns
True. Thanks for the reply. I will say that when either service goes down, cable has been easier for me to reconnect. Now, my honest question being away from DSL for so long is, what is the fastest speed available now via DSL?
Interesting.....
Bandwidth - From 756 Kbps to 6 Mbps, but you pay higher prices to get the higher rates of data transfer. Also, DSL is typically limited to 128 Kbps upstream. Bandwidth - Although you can theoretically get up to 30 Mbps downstream, the average rate is around 5 Mbps to 6 Mbps downstream and 384 Kbps upstream.
Not Shared - Bandwidth is dedicated, not shared, between the user's location and the nearest central office of your ISP. Shared - The bandwidth to your Cable ISP is shared by you and all the other Internet users in your area using same service.
More Secure - DSL is generally considered more secure since it uses a dedicated rather than shared connection to your ISP. Less Secure - Cable is a shared medium that is subject to eavesdropping, denial of service attacks, service theft, etc.
Distance Sensitive - The further you are from your DSL service provider's facilities, the less speed you will get. Not Distance Sensitive - You receive the same rate of speed no matter what distance you are from your provider.
Installation Fees - Usually no cost, but can have a shipping and modem rental fees. Installation Fees - Usually no cost, but can have a shipping and modem rental fees.
Monthly Rates - Ranges from $15 to $45, but the less you pay the lower your speeds. Monthly Rates - Average from $40 to $55 and you can't pay less for slower speeds.
Do Cable Users Really Share Bandwidth While DSL Users Do Not?
Many salespersons for DSL providers will tell you that DSL does not share bandwidth while Cable does, thus slowing down Cable Internet connections when many people near you are using the Internet. While this is true, it is a general statement that can cause you to make an uninformed decision if you think it means DSL will always be faster than Cable.
For example, if your local Cable Internet provider has enough bandwidth in your area that can handle a lot of users, the speed of your connection will hardly be affected by this sharing. Also, if you use DSL and your DSL provider's central office if far away from your home, your connection will be slower than normal even though you aren't sharing that connection with anyone else. In such a case, Cable would be better, since Cable maintains its rate of data transfer better over long distances while higher ADSL speeds can be limited by distance.
The Decision Usually Comes Down To Exactly Where You Live
For many consumers looking into DSL vs Cable, the debate of which Internet service is better will never even come up. You're often lucky to have one of the two services in your area. For those consumers who actually have both services available to them, the answer to which is a better choice lies in the exact location of your home.
As a rule of thumb, DSL speeds will depend upon the actual distance your building is from the nearest central office of your ISP. For Cable Internet, connection speeds can be affected by the amount of Internet use in your particular neighborhood. And since no objective article on the Internet can tell you how far your individual house is to your DSL-ISP's nearest central office or how many other Cable Internet users are actively using the Internet in your area, you'll just have to do some asking around on your own.
Since the connections speeds in your area will most certainly be different than in other areas, you're best course of action is to talk to other Internet users in your area who utilize the type of connections that you are looking into. Only by gauging the quality of a provider in a certain area directly with the customers who use their service will help you make a sound decision. |
|
shdesigns
Powered By Infinite Improbabilty Drive
Premium
join:2000-12-01
Stone Mountain, GA
·Atlantic Nexus
| reply to BinaryXtreme
said by BinaryXtreme :Apples vs. Oranges? That's it? Uh........... I've had both and cable is a lot faster depending on your plan but as far as reliability, cable wins hands down. My mother is forced to use DSL in her area when she moved and does not nearly like it as much as cable. She suffers from the same issues I did. Frequent outages and slower service. The one thing clearly noticeable between the two is that cable has that speed snap to it. I don't know how to explain it but there is no lag in the loading like DSL has. I speak this from home experience as work as well. If I had a choice, cable. Again, has nothing to do with cable vs DSL.
I had crappy DSL with Earthlink, lots of droputs. Was good when it was Mindspring, but after the EL buyout they oversold lines and had poor support.
Changed to a better ISP and all problems went away. Same line, same DSLAM, just routed through different ISP.
Power here is flaky. The slightest flicker and you have to wait for the cable system to "reboot". DSL stays up for at least 4 hours when power goes out.
--
Scott Henion
Embedded Systems Consultant, shenion on #ATU @irc.freenode.net
SHDesigns home |
|
