Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
1 edit | [Vista] Vista System Restore??
I just tried to use System Restore in Vista. System Restore works great in XP and I have 90 restore points there. In Vista, first thing I noticed was that I only have about a week of restore points...why is that? I should have a lot more.
I restored to a checkpoint earlier tonite (about 8 hours ago). The restored desktop was not mine and other stuff was missing such as programs, quickstart list, etc. So, I immediately undid the restore point which worked ok.
I have two accounts both admin. I was in the psuedo admin account when I did the restore. Shouldn't the restore have been to that account? I think what happened though was that the restore was to my other admin account...the hidden true Vista admin account (which I unhid several weeks ago so I could use it). I didn't think about that at the time but now I realize the desktop I saw is the one for the default Vista admin account. That would explain also why I didn't see all my programs as there are just a few in that account.
Also, I got no popup when I did the restore saying it had been restored. Vista just rebooted evidently to the default admin account. So, what should I have done then? Should I have rebooted again to my psuedo admin account and would it have been restored to that point I was trying to restore to?
When I decided to back out of that restore point that looked all wrong and undid the restore, when Vista rebooted, it booted to the Welcome screen where I could choose which account. I think it should have booted to the Welcome screen when I tried to do the restore point instead of opening directly into the default admin account which made me think the restore didn't work right.
So, how is Vista supposed to do System Restore?
edit: I forgot to mention that when I undid the restore point, I found that Fx3 had LOST its theme! It was gone completely (not just disabled) and Fx was using the default theme. That is really weird. I had installed the latest version of the theme a few minutes before I tried a restore point and rebooted Fx and everything was fine so I can't understand how undoing the restore point would make Fx lose its theme.
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Grail Knight
Who Dares Wins
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1 edit | quote:
So, how is Vista supposed to do System Restore?
Might I suggest you open up the "Help File" or use the Search Engine in any browser and type in
"System Restore in Vista"
Just a few things I found in a few seconds.
»www.howtogeek.com/howto/windows-···restore/
»www.bleepingcomputer.com/tutoria···143.html
So many more results just by looking.
Edit* Removed one comment.
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bcastner
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3 edits | reply to Mele20
1. System Restore is system wide. Not to an individual account.
2. Nothing in the Users profile is backed up or restored by using System Restore, with the exception of the user profile portion of the registry -- NTUSER.DAT
So most of your Desktop items, etc. are not covered by System Restore at all, other than cases where they are reflected by a registry entry in the hives -- as that is all that is backed up and all that is restored in terms of any user profile.
3. As to the number of restore points, these are based on the amount of disk space allocated; there is an aging factor but it is by default quite high. Vista is different from XP in the sense that it uses the disk space allocation for Volume Shadow Copies, the Previous Version information, as well as System Restore Points. If you want more System Restore Points, increase the VSS directory space allocation.
All About System Restore in Vista
»bertk.mvps.org/html/vista.html
(Highlight the second tab at the top to see the subsections.)
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tirebiter
join:2002-02-16
Champaign, IL | reply to Mele20
You did click on the "Show restore points older than 5 days" option didn't you? Maybe that's why you're only seeing a few restore points. |
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Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI | reply to Grail Knight
I've been wanting to ask you for a long time what you feel these forums are for. |
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Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
| reply to tirebiter
said by tirebiter  :You did click on the "Show restore points older than 5 days" option didn't you? Maybe that's why you're only seeing a few restore points. Yes, I did that. I guess that maybe 5-6 restore points is all that there can be on a virtual machine with no large virtual disk. Unlike on VMWare, I can add another virtual disk for Vista on Virtual PC if the reason System Restore is only showing 5-6 restore points is because I need a larger disk. The virtual disk that Vista is installed on is 16GB and I have 5.46GB free. I miss the slider that XP has showing the amount of space System Restore is using and where I could adjust that by moving the slider. I don't understand how to adjust it in Vista. I recall reading complaints of how bad Microsoft made System Restore in Vista but that was before I got Vista and I don't recall if there is some "obscure"way to adjust the amount of space used and to see how much System Restore is currently using. I need System Restore because Virtual PC lacks snapshot ability.
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"The same ferocity that our founders devoted to protect the freedom and independence of the press is now appropriate for our defense of the freedom of the internet. The stakes are the same: the survival of our Republic". Al Gore, The Assault on Reason |
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TK421
Premium
join:2004-12-19
Canada
| I cannot remember where I found it and I must apologize to whomever or wherever I snipped this from last year when I was researching the same questions... perhaps you will also find it helpful.
Microsoft thought it would be a good idea to hide the setting well and allocate 15% of the hard drives capacity to System Restore. On a 300 Gigabyte drive System Restore would allocate 45 Gigabytes of space !
In their drive for a uncomplicated system they restrict user possibilities to create a system the way they like. It is becoming a closed system with the owner of the computer being a user instead of someone who can actively alter his system the way he wants. To change the System Restore size in Microsoft Windows Vista you have to rely on the command line utility vssadmin.
Open the command line and use the following command to change the size of System Restore in Windows Vista:
vssadmin resize shadowstorage /on=c: /for=c: /maxsize=4GB
This would change the allocated size of System Restore on drive C: for drive C: to 4 gigabytes. Please note that the on: parameter is the drive letter where the System Restore files are stored while the for: parameter defines the drive that the files should be backed up from. The maxsize parameter is pretty obvious. It can’t go below 300 Megabytes. If you remove the maxsize parameter the settings will be changed to the default ones again.
If you select a size that is lower than the current amount of space the oldest entries in System Restory will be deleted first. |
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Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
| I recall reading that! And thinking "ugh" as only being able to change the size via command line...I don't enjoy using command line as I'm not good in command line as starting with W98 which was my first computer, it wasn't needed like earlier and I was scared of command line when I was a newbie and I never really learned much about how to use it well.
If it sets 15% aside for restore points then the problem must be the virtual disk is too small to hold more. That puzzles me as I have a 4GB virtual disk fixed size for a XP virtual machine and it keeps about a month of restore points even with the disk almost full. With Vista, I have a 16 GB virtual disk and it is two-thirds full yet restore has only 5-6 points. They must be gigantic compared to XP restore points. I guess I'll go read the help file for Virtual PC to see how to add another virtual disk.
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"The same ferocity that our founders devoted to protect the freedom and independence of the press is now appropriate for our defense of the freedom of the internet. The stakes are the same: the survival of our Republic". Al Gore, The Assault on Reason |
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Grail Knight
Who Dares Wins
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join:2003-05-31
·Verizon Online DSL
1 edit | reply to Mele20
It is for answering questions which is what I did. If I did not post a whole page worth of instructions it is because I felt you are capable of clicking on the link to take you to the full answer.
People answer questions in different ways Marilyn and you evidently need to overcome your issues with how answers are given or learn why answers are shortened to links instead of me filling up a page with information that is also located at the end of the links supplied.
You are welcome by the way.
Edit* Added more info. |
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SipSizzurp
Fo' Shizzle
Premium
join:2005-12-28
Hilo, HI
 ·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to Mele20
said by Mele20 :I don't enjoy using command line ...and I never really learned much about how to use it well. Never fear, you can enter that command into the "RUN" box in the start menu to do the same thing. As far as I know all "DOS" commands will execute properly in the "RUN" box. What is it about the dos box that scares you ? I live in the damned thing. I often grow weary of chasing the mouse around in the GUI. You can get down to business more quickly without the all the hand holding, and you can see what the machine has to say back to you, which it usually does not do in the Gooey !
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I spent most of my money on Women and Beer, and the rest I just wasted ! |
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Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
| reply to Grail Knight
The way I read your post was that you thought I should have searched the net first instead of asking here first and was being lazy by not doing so. I know I could have found a lot of information by googling but I wouldn't be sure it was really good advice and what might be poor advice. So, I asked here first because I trust the members here to give good advice usually. If I misinterpreted your post then I apologize.
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"The same ferocity that our founders devoted to protect the freedom and independence of the press is now appropriate for our defense of the freedom of the internet. The stakes are the same: the survival of our Republic". Al Gore, The Assault on Reason |
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Grail Knight
Who Dares Wins
Premium
join:2003-05-31 | Apology accepted. |
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Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
| reply to SipSizzurp
It is not so much that I am "scared" of command line ...I got over that years ago (I was terrified of even looking in the registry at first years ago too...and that was good probably...because that way I didn't screw the registry up by trying to do something when I didn't know what I was doing...but I'm not afraid of the registry now either). It's more that I don't know commands to use once in the dos box. I can type in a command in the box that I know ie "ipconfig /all" stuff like that but to do anything in depth, I get quickly lost. Plus, I have to fight myself to not type slash marks backwards and there are a lot of them in the command box. I'm left handed and they slant the wrong way for me. 
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"The same ferocity that our founders devoted to protect the freedom and independence of the press is now appropriate for our defense of the freedom of the internet. The stakes are the same: the survival of our Republic". Al Gore, The Assault on Reason |
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bcastner
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Chevy Chase, MD
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| See my earlier links to Berk Kinney's site about System Restore. He provides not only the command line arguments to use, but pre-written scripts you can use if you do not like using the former.
In any case, let me head off a potential issue. Lets say you adjust the VSS store size. For whatever reason, you do a System Restore to a date prior to having adjusted the VSS store size.
It should not be surprising, but for some it is, you have reverted the settings for the VSS store size, (along with a lot of other things).
So in setting a new size, clean your old Restore Points so that you never forget.
Bill Castner
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Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
| Ah...that is a good point about cleaning the restore points if I set a new size. I think I would have realized I needed to do that but maybe not.
I haven't read your links yet (I have a major problem with Avira on the Vista machine plus other things taking my time) but I will read them tomorrow or Saturday when I have more time. Thanks.
Plus, I may need to post in the MS Virtual PC NG and ask about making a new virtual hard disk for the Vista machine. If I do that, I wonder if Restore will see the extra space and enlarge the size of the restore points? I have to educate myself on adding virtual hard disks in Virtual PC as that is not something I could do in VMWare. After I learn more about doing that, I might not want to do it. So, I have a lot of reading to do.
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"The same ferocity that our founders devoted to protect the freedom and independence of the press is now appropriate for our defense of the freedom of the internet. The stakes are the same: the survival of our Republic". Al Gore, The Assault on Reason |
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Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
| reply to bcastner
said by bcastner :See my earlier links to Berk Kinney's site about System Restore. He provides not only the command line arguments to use, but pre-written scripts you can use if you do not like using the former. Bill Castner I finally had a chance to read Berk Kinney's information. Thank you again for that link. Very useful information. 
I see the problem now that I know how to use command line to see the allocated storage space size and how much of that is currently used. I currently have 4 restore points and that is about all I can have with the amount of storage currently allocated:
C:\Users\Scarlett>Vssadmin.exe List ShadowStorage
vssadmin 1.1 - Volume Shadow Copy Service administrative command-line tool
(C) Copyright 2001-2005 Microsoft Corp.
Shadow Copy Storage association
For volume: (C:)\\?\Volume{42371c01-2311-11dd-bdfe-806e6f6e6963}\
Shadow Copy Storage volume: (C:)\\?\Volume{42371c01-2311-11dd-bdfe-806e6f6e69
63}\
Used Shadow Copy Storage space: 1.937 GB
Allocated Shadow Copy Storage space: 2.189 GB
Maximum Shadow Copy Storage space: 2.197 GB
Vista restore points take a lot more space than XP ones. When I have time, I'll have to explore adding another virtual hard drive so I have more space for System Restore.
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"The same ferocity that our founders devoted to protect the freedom and independence of the press is now appropriate for our defense of the freedom of the internet. The stakes are the same: the survival of our Republic". Al Gore, The Assault on Reason |
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SipSizzurp
Fo' Shizzle
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join:2005-12-28
Hilo, HI
·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to Mele20
Vista can also pull previous versions of individual files back from the restore points without rolling back the whole machine. Should be a pretty useful function. Have you messed with that ? I hope they keep that feature in W7. Hopefully they will expand it to include various modules within Windows, like the whole TCP stack, or all of the files in the family of the firewall, or those of WZC, ETC, instead of just individual files.
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I spent most of my money on Women and Beer, and the rest I just wasted ! |
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Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
| I had noticed some time back that Vista can restore previous versions of files but I never seemed to have any...once I clicked on that screen and saw a list of previous versions for something, I don't recall what. But mostly it would say there are no previous versions. With only a few days of restore points being kept...no wonder! But on a machine with plenty of space, thus a good number of restore points kept, that could prove quite useful.
Actually, if I had thought about it, the best thing I could have done with the Avira product update problem I had a couple of days ago on Vista would have been to have restored the previous version of Avira. It never occured to me to try that and I knew Vista could do that. I uninstalled it instead and then was afraid to reinstall it and have the problem again as it would update itself to the version that was causing the problem. I was thinking like an XP user not a Vista user. 
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"The same ferocity that our founders devoted to protect the freedom and independence of the press is now appropriate for our defense of the freedom of the internet. The stakes are the same: the survival of our Republic". Al Gore, The Assault on Reason |
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bcastner
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1 edit | reply to SipSizzurp
quote:
Vista can also pull previous versions of individual files back from the restore points without rolling back the whole machine.
No, it cannot.
The feature does not depend on System Restore Points at all.
That feature is completely different from System Restore, although the space required is in the same VSS directory. Which is why I asked Mele20 to appreciate that this directory is now shared by that feature, Shadow Copy, and System Restore, so sizing becomes a completely different factor than would have been considered as "enough" allocation under XP.
But in no case is a Restore Point harvested to retrieve a single file.
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bcastner
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4 edits | reply to Mele20
quote:
Vista restore points take a lot more space than XP ones. When I have time, I'll have to explore adding another virtual hard drive so I have more space for System Restore.
No they do not.
The fact is that the VSS directory shares now, which it essentially did not in sizing concerns under previous OS versions, the same BOOT volume directory for System Restore, and all the new features of VSS -- the Volume Shadow Copy Service. For a range of selected file extensions, Vista makes a copy of the file if it is deleted or modified. The VSS service can do a heckuva lot more, including allowing VSS respondents and Clients to permit the live Backup of even open files, and a Restore.
So the sizing is quite different, and yes, much larger, than under XP. But the rules for the FIFO and date ageing of System Restore Points is essentially the same under Vista and XP, although Vista's ageing value is considerably more lenient.
As I suggested to you at the beginning, the issue is that your VSS allocation is too small under Vista to allow you the History of Restore Points that you would enjoy with the same space allocation under XP.
This has nothing to do with Restore Points per se, but the fact that the VSS directory is now used for other things as well. Once it reaches a state of being nearly Full, Vista beings a FIFO process on Restore Points to make room.
Bump the VSS Folder allocation size.
Last note: if you are using a Virtual machine version of Vista, or Dual booting, please be aware of the fact that if you also have XP installed there is a serious conflict. This has to do with the fact the the VSS directory is Globally Common -- meaning that whatever each OS views as its BOOT partition, is where it expects the VSS to be, and completely under the control of a single OS instance.
So you have to deny to your other OS instances any access to the VSS folder if you have not taken the steps to make this unambiguous for every OS instance, Virtual or Dual Boot.
Firing up your Vista instance, can easily corrupt the VSS Folder for your XP instances. And vice-versa.
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