R0CKY
TSI Rocky
Premium,VIP
join:2005-05-19
Chatham, ON
| reply to MysticGogeta
Re: Details...
said by MysticGogeta  :Well what else is there left to do sit around and let them screw them out of any profits and crush the company? He will be faced with either raising prices or laying off workers or perhaps both. the unfortunate thing is it's irrelevant if TSI survives through this right now... What is very relevant is how our worlds, techie or not, are about to get very impacted financially.
People need communication, hydro, gas, etc., services just as much as they need to air and water right now, so all those who control these mechanisms are in a powerful situation. This is why I, and others, went to Parliament Hill recently as we're fighting about something much bigger than all of us in the end..... The major difference with Bell/Rogers in this case is not only are they influencing our "internet air" but they also have the capability of impacting what we think and do, being tied so closely to the media and content.
Net Neutrality principals and concerns are far reaching as Corporate Greed has a very really opportunity to turn us all into virtual lab rats..... (booooo!) 
Rocky
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TSI Rocky - TekSavvy Solutions Inc. |
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hottboiinnc
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH
 ·Time Warner Cable
·buckeye cable
| ISPs there need to do what they do here; Build out their own networks.
Just because its legal for you to use their networks you shouldnt rely on them for your business. Start building out yours and show them up.
Why cry about it? when they go and do the usage based system what are you going to do? cry about that too?
You're a business looking to make profit. They're a business looking to make profit. And Bell owns one thing you both want. The wiring between the CO and the customers homes and businesses. Stop using the wire.
It has been showen here the ILECs will crush you no matter how they spin it. Next they'll drop their price rates and go after you that way.
and hydro and gas are not communication needs. Actually people lived before they were even around.
Also Net Neutrality was never about keeping the networks so they'd be wholesaled. They were about making content on them equal. You are crying about something that does not even fit the def. about what it was meant to be.
Start being a company and build out your own network or just get out of the way. |
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R0CKY
TSI Rocky
Premium,VIP
join:2005-05-19
Chatham, ON
| said by hottboiinnc :ISPs there need to do what they do here; Build out their own networks. Just because its legal for you to use their networks you shouldnt rely on them for your business. Start building out yours and show them up. Why cry about it? when they go and do the usage based system what are you going to do? cry about that too? You're a business looking to make profit. They're a business looking to make profit. And Bell owns one thing you both want. The wiring between the CO and the customers homes and businesses. Stop using the wire. It has been showen here the ILECs will crush you no matter how they spin it. Next they'll drop their price rates and go after you that way. and hydro and gas are not communication needs. Actually people lived before they were even around. Also Net Neutrality was never about keeping the networks so they'd be wholesaled. They were about making content on them equal. You are crying about something that does not even fit the def. about what it was meant to be. Start being a company and build out your own network or just get out of the way. Huh? The Canadian market isn't at all like the US guys.... In Bell Territory (and I say Bell Territory for a good reason), we have no choice but to use them in the ground, so even using our own equipment as you say, we'd still have to go through them to finish the job. This is why it's called a monopoly.
I never said hydro and gas were communication needs.
In any case, we have a standardized structure in Canada that allows a standard network format (one good part from the Government), but what we don't have is a standard agreement on how we all play together to make this work.
Lastly, it's not Bell's network technically as they've been given rights to a space with the condition they shared it. If they no longer wish to honour their monopoly responsibilities, then lets have it taken away and auction/sell the rights to someone who wants to take the responsibility for it.
Rocky
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TSI Rocky - TekSavvy Solutions Inc. |
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hottboiinnc
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH | You don't need anything plugged on the ground if you do wireless like i said.
but then again why should you since you can go to the CRTC and cry that you need to lease their network because you can't build out wireless. |
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R0CKY
TSI Rocky
Premium,VIP
join:2005-05-19
Chatham, ON
| said by hottboiinnc :You don't need anything plugged on the ground if you do wireless like i said. but then again why should you since you can go to the CRTC and cry that you need to lease their network because you can't build out wireless. Who's to say we're not doing something else? I'm talking about this particular service being serviced by a particular supplier.
Because I'm not allowing someone to be a bully makes me a whiner? I don't think so... To boot, if you looked me up you'd quickly realise I'm one of the few who are very much active in fighting for your rights! So, unless you can tell me you're also standing up to fight for your/our rights, instead of arguing for the sake of arguing, I'd consider keeping the attacks on the down-low.
I'm done here.
Rocky
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TSI Rocky - TekSavvy Solutions Inc. |
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adisor19
join:2004-10-11
 ·Velcom
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Radioactif
·Videotron
·Look Communications
| said by R0CKY :said by hottboiinnc :You don't need anything plugged on the ground if you do wireless like i said. but then again why should you since you can go to the CRTC and cry that you need to lease their network because you can't build out wireless. Who's to say we're not doing something else? I'm talking about this particular service being serviced by a particular supplier. Because I'm not allowing someone to be a bully makes me a whiner? I don't think so... To boot, if you looked me up you'd quickly realise I'm one of the few who are very much active in fighting for your rights! So, unless you can tell me you're also standing up to fight for your/our rights, instead of arguing for the sake of arguing, I'd consider keeping the attacks on the down-low. I'm done here. Rocky Don't bother feeding the troll Rocky. This guy obviously has no idea of what he's talking about and as you realised, he's only trying to insult you.
I for one can't wait to see what the CRTC's response to this BS move by Bell will be.
Keep up the good fight and let's hope this country won't become ruled by corporations like in the USA.
Adi |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
1 edit | reply to hottboiinnc
On Second thought, I realized it was an utter waste of my time to respond to this. |
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st7860
join:2004-05-13
San Francisco, CA
| reply to hottboiinnc
said by hottboiinnc :ISPs there need to do what they do here; Build out their own networks. Just because its legal for you to use their networks you shouldnt rely on them for your business. Start building out yours and show them up. Why cry about it? when they go and do the usage based system what are you going to do? cry about that too? You're a business looking to make profit. They're a business looking to make profit. And Bell owns one thing you both want. The wiring between the CO and the customers homes and businesses. Stop using the wire. It has been showen here the ILECs will crush you no matter how they spin it. Next they'll drop their price rates and go after you that way. and hydro and gas are not communication needs. Actually people lived before they were even around. Also Net Neutrality was never about keeping the networks so they'd be wholesaled. They were about making content on them equal. You are crying about something that does not even fit the def. about what it was meant to be. Start being a company and build out your own network or just get out of the way. i hereby and solemnly declare +1
furthermore, out in BC, i use an ADSL company called telus, where I get a 6m down 1m up line and i don't get charged if i go over 200 gigabytes, and I dont have to pay $10 for 'bundles' of extra gigabytes, AND, don't have to enter a password to access the internet, but with most of the competitors, you do have to enter a password to access the internet, even if you're using ADSL. |
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Capharnaum
join:2006-06-19
Montreal, QC
| reply to hottboiinnc
Bell was given a monopoly in Canada, and then they wanted to get out of that regulation and start charging what they wanted. The problem is that they wouldn't have competition and the legislated era had them build their network with insured profits while passing off all costs to the customers, who had no choice but to go with them (since they're a monopoly).
So the only way they could get out of the regulation was to allow access at a fair price to other companies so that there was competition for the different services. The part where they have to provide a certain level of service to competitors is regulated to ensure competition.
Now Bell is trying to thwart competition using these avenues since they can't compete with them as they are an unneffective, innefficient company that customers are fleeing from. Basically, they're trying to force customers to be with them with underhanded moves because they can't keep their customers through satisfaction. |
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hottboiinnc
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH
·Time Warner Cable
·buckeye cable
| reply to R0CKY
My rights? HA! We don't have this problem in the USA. We actually have the dereg which doesnt require the ILECs to share. So its either sink or swim.
It seems that you don't make a very good businessman though. Rule #2 - if a supplier screws you;-you don't keep going back to them. You find a way to keep your business going without them-hence finding another way to deliver your product -ie: Wireless Internet become a WISP instead of a DSL provider.
You're business would be screwed here in the US if you depended on the Bells. Also i don't see how you consider them a monopoly. They're not keeping you from having your business. ISPs lobbied your government to allow you in. You should be glad they did. Also you should be working on having your own network and start saying you are instead of "fighting". But in the long run Bell will win one way or another.
And also I'm not attacking you - i'm simply stating the facts. If you can't compete as a business man against a large company I suggest you get out while the goings getting good and sell your company to someone else that can handle it. And then go talk to The Home Depot up there and learn how to stand up to your vendors/suppliers- its not about getting someone else involved to get what you want done its about putting them in their place without laws that are not needed. |
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hottboiinnc
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH | reply to Capharnaum
Bell is not a monopoly. They have Rogers to compete against and other companies.
Again- if the ISPs can't compete and build something else out get out of the way and let Bell do what they do- service the customer. |
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adisor19
join:2004-10-11
·Velcom
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Radioactif
·Videotron
·Look Communications
| said by hottboiinnc :Bell is not a monopoly. They have Rogers to compete against and other companies. Again- if the ISPs can't compete and build something else out get out of the way and let Bell do what they do- service the customer. Ok enough with the BS. I don't care of i get banned for this but someone has to say it : YOU'RE AN IDIOT !!!
Bell IS a monopoly ! There own each and every freakin copper line to and from their CO. Oh, yeah, it's THEIR CO as well. How the hell is that NOT a monopoly ??!
Rogers is a monopoly as well ! They own in every single cable drop to your house if you live in thier area. There is no choice if you want another cable provider. There's only ROGERS. How is that not a monopoly ?!
Also, DO YOU KNOW WHO PAID THESE MONOPOLIES FOR THEIR NETOWRK ? It's the government and the freakin consumers !! That's the reason why they HAVE to share their networks, cause they were built with our hard earned $$$ and because it's IMPOSSIBLE for a newcomer to build such a network due to financial reasons.
Jesus Christ, relax already with the "go become a WISP" or "build your own network". Ya ok, get me the money that the goverment gave Bell and i'll build my network too !
Adi
/END RANT |
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Siftbit
@teksavvy.com
| reply to hottboiinnc
That is quite possibly the dumbest thing I've read all week.
Supposing that it's feasible these small ISP to set up their own WISP infrastructure (it's not), you wouldn't even be providing the same product since WISP is aimed at different market with different needs, uses, and expectations. If Bell owned roads and made all the taxi companies to pay exorbitant amount of money, you wouldn't tell these taxi companies to start an airline. Both modes of transportation, sure, but aimed at very different markets.
Please think a bit more before writing. |
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hottboiinnc
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH
1 edit | yes it is possible for TekSavvy to build their own WISP out. They just don't want to like it or not they just want to leach off Bell because Gov't says they can.
And they don't seem to be as small as you make them out to be. |
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hottboiinnc
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH
·Time Warner Cable
·buckeye cable
| reply to adisor19
They're not a monopoly because they have competition. Rogers and Bell both compete against each other. Both offer TV, Internet, and Phone.
Want anything better?
Also have you heard of a such thing as a Loan? Go check out the WISP board on here. Many people are building out without the figure that was stated of what? $5,000,000!
besides if you're a real business you would have a back up plan figured in your business plan. But sounds like who ever gave Rocky his loan (if he got one) didnt bother to factor that in.
If you don't like the what I have to say to damn bad. I support big business. If the little guy can't compete get the hell out of the way cause the Big Corp. is gonna steam roll them out of the way. |
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pfak
Premium
join:2002-12-29
Canada
·Shaw
 ·Novus Entertainmen..
| reply to hottboiinnc
You do realize that Bell Canada's network was paid for by the gov't, right?
Why is it acceptable for Bell to have a free ride, but not allow others on the governments network even though they're paying for the service?
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Xenophase - British Columbia's premier online gaming community. |
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myosh
join:2001-05-03
Cupertino, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC
| reply to hottboiinnc
Big business is what is wrong with America. They don't give a crap about the consumer only about how to make as much money as possible no matter what the cost (destroying the environment, illegally eliminating competition, buying politicians, etc). Now looking at what Bell Canada is up to, it looks like this mentality has spread to our northern neighbors. I guarantee you if AT&T were to pull something like this, there'd be an uproar here too. Unfortunately, Congress has already been bought by AT&T.
Oh and a word of advice, I wouldn't go around saying you support big business here or you will be labeled a corporate shill. |
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BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
·Comcast
| reply to hottboiinnc
said by hottboiinnc :You don't need anything plugged on the ground if you do wireless like i said. but then again why should you since you can go to the CRTC and cry that you need to lease their network because you can't build out wireless. Just in case you can't read , Bell is one of the only sources for dumping data onto the internet in Canada. And in the US we have multiple providers for that.
If one had the intelligence to go and read through the canadian telecom rules , they don't own anything , they are getting it provided to them by the government. And the contact can come up for renewal. They can lose their rights to it. They didn't pay for the build out , Rocky as a canadian buddy , keep up the good fight man.
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" |
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Latency
@netspectrum.ca
| reply to R0CKY
Give them Hell Rocky...
This is some info to add for the misinformed...
When Rogers wanted to get into the phone business back in the 1990's the CRTC said (simplified version for the sake of brevity) "let's see what Bell says"... Bell said "sure, but we want into the TV business".. They basically agreed at the behest of the CRTC..
Sounds fine, eh? Too bad Rogers had a number of years head start (handicap) to get their fledgling phone service off the ground before Bell was even allowed to enter the TV space.
This is Fredrick von Shitenstein and the other ivory tower no-minds at the CRTC creating dual-monopolies and protecting them from each other at the same time. The goal of the CRTC/govn't at the time was not to financially impact or cause massive sell-offs in the stock market of either Bell or Rogers' shares.
Rocky: You must face one fact; The CRTC is a country club filled with ex-monopoly (Bell/Rogers) employees.
If you are the biggest Bell/Rogers corporate shill in history you get rewarded with a position at the CRTC. Because the CRTC (using circular logic) must fill its' ranks with experts and those all must work for Bell/Rogers in the eyes of the government.
Complicating this matter is Bell's (BCE) attempt to keep their profit projections strong enough to land the investment from the Teachers Pension Fund. Bell needs this investment or they could be in very serious trouble financially, yes I said they are in trouble. So the CRTC which is run by our fine Tory government are not about to let this happen, not in our lifetime.
And yes these are the same fine folks who allowed the sale of our forestry industry (too many to mention, but now just Weyerhaeuser), our steel industry (Stelco and Dofasco), our mining industry (Inco/Falconbridge), and of late apparently our highly govn't funded space industry.
Anything to make sure the monopolies stay strong and most important stay monopolies. The government doesn't care who makes our toilet paper, our car parts, our metals, or our space ships just as long as no-one else (other than our Tory government) tells us what to think. Telling Canadians what to think is the sole monopoly of the Canadian federal government.
They are (CRTC) far more concerned about foreign investment, I mean keeping foreign investment from swallowing us whole than they are about effecting the livelihood of a couple smaller companies. We do need to worry about the likes of SBC, Verizon, AT&T, etc.. in addition to our own domestic monopolies. All of the American telco's are freakin huge and their draconian business style does not bode well for our quasi-socialist ways here in Canada.
IMO Unless something was about to change for BCE (foreign investment) the Teachers Pension Plan wouldn't be seriously interested in a company that is so dependent on government hand-outs. These investors types do not like government involvement, it slows them down and gets in the way of them making money. Ergo, get ready for the announcement of a major portion of Bell being sold off to some big foreign entity. As likely from Europe or Asia as from the USA...
Oh that's right, the Teachers Pension Plan IS the vehicle for foreign investment in Bell while carefully side-stepping our current laws.
Aside from your micro-economical views ie. the plight and future of your business and its' employees.
Cogeco did it and so can you! They put in their own fiber and other required infrastructure, and wired customers right to the home. Even if they ran crap old PDP-11's in the beginning. Do the same as them buy up all of the old(er) telco gear you can find, start wiring and give them hell.
Cogeco Cable should be looked upon as the model for succeeding in the face of stiff opposition in Canada.
Shouldn't you guys be pissed off that Toronto Hydros' IP network is being sold to Cogeco? This is even more of the tax-payer's dollars hard at work. Muni-telecom was supposed to be the answer to thwart the Bell/Rogers monopoly. Now it seems "muni-telecom" was a clever way for other players (all cable co's) to get a finished working system without paying for all of the mistakes made during the projects' life cycle.
MONTREAL - Toronto Hydro Telecom Inc. is an under-utilized gem that will provide great growth opportunities for its new owner, Cogeco Cable Inc. (TSX:CCA) president Louis Audet said Thursday.
The Montreal-based cable company is buying the Toronto Hydro Corp. subsidiary for $200 million in a deal that will give Cogeco Cable an important foothold in the lucrative Toronto market.
Rocky I would suggest you partner with your local muni-fiber guys as they can and do/have run new infrastructure all over the place. Hydro has right of ways also, and they can be utilized for telecommunications infrastructure in addition to power as they have been doing for years.
Perhaps, you can partner with Cogeco the third head of the Hydra...
Rocky in all seriousness I applaud your determination and efforts on behalf of all of us. Regardless of what a bunch of mis-informed piss ants say..
I say hat's off to Rocky for having a spine. He must be a Canadian, eh?
L@tency |
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Bellundo
@teksavvy.com | reply to st7860
But you just recently lost your binary newsgroups so everything that happened in Ontario will happen to you only 3 years later. |
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