sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
H0H 0H0
 ·Rogers Hi-Speed
Host:
Rogers
Bell Canada
| reply to Deadpool
Re: CAIP debunks Bell Canada throttling claim
root9, your questions have been asked and answers provided. Just because they aren't the answers you want to hear and your persistence on continually trying to provoke other answers is taking this thread round and round in pointless circles.
You've been given the best answer on the privacy matter that you can be given. The matter of the Part VII application is essentially "before the court" and it would be totally for deadpool to make any comments that were not authorized by Bell's legal department. And if I were in his shoes, I would want to even consider going there. So your persistence on that matter also takes this thread around in pointless circles.
Therefore this thread is locked ... not based on any desires expressed by anyone in this thread, but from the simple fact of "asked and answered". |
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root9
join:2005-04-08
Kitchener, ON
| reply to Deadpool
Let's get this clear. So you are refusing to provide customer satisfaction? And you refuse to check with your legal department and or your superiors?
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Please engage eyeballs and retain functional brain before operating fingers. |
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Deadpool
Go Sens Go
Premium,VIP
join:2001-03-29
Canada
 ·Bell Sympatico
1 edit | reply to root9
I'm actually still waiting on your PM that actually proves who you are, not just a telephone number.
Check with your lawyer and he/she will tell you that a phone number isn't sufficient to prove your identity and make a request.
As for anything relating to CAIP, I'm not going to comment on anything related to the Part VII application currently being reviewed by the CRTC. You'll of course not be satisfied with this answer. Too bad. I'll still sleep fine.
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Disclaimer: If I express an opinion, it is my own opinion, not that of Bell or its related companies. |
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root9
join:2005-04-08
Kitchener, ON
1 edit | reply to DKS
AGAIN, what business is it of yours DKS when questions were put to deadpool and not you?
And this is the problem with this forum. deadpool mouths off and here we go again, a bunch of regular users that think they know everything start protecting deadpool. If they don't get their way they lock the thread on a regular basis. [edit] This is unacceptable.
Well guess what DKS? YOU'RE WRONG and I won't explain why. Deadpool according to Bell's own rules must answer FULLY. And I suggest he check with his legal department as to why.
I'm expecting his answers on his CAIP comments as well, actually many of us are.
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Please engage eyeballs and retain functional brain before operating fingers. |
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marcbase
join:2008-07-31
j3y-8v5 | reply to DKS
i guess if he post it in direct forum, it would be considered official
Unless you give them only your phone number(if you do, tell them to call you to verify your indetity) |
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DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
clubs:
·Bell Sympatico
| reply to marcbase
said by marcbase  :... no define designated party, because in this case, the designated party is Bell If i tell the guy from Bell to forward my hand written demand to the appropriate party then yes they have to do it "Hand written" is not something posted to an internet forum.
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Need-based health care not greed-based health care. |
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marcbase
join:2008-07-31
j3y-8v5 | reply to Bob605
... no
define designated party, because in this case, the designated party is Bell
If i tell the guy from Bell to forward my hand written demand to the appropriate party then yes they have to do it |
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DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
clubs:
·Bell Sympatico
| reply to root9
said by root9 :Seems like I'm going to have to explain to you and everyone how YOU should be doing your job. 1- you were given my info DP says all you gave him was a telephone number. This is not sufficient. You have not followed the proper form.
2- pass it on to appropriate party at Bell This is something DP is not allowed to do, no matter what kind of evidence you quote. He also pointed out the proper avenue you had to take, through Bell's privacy officer.
3- the party will determine whether whether I'm for real or not. This way you don't get to know exactly who I am and privacy is kept at proper levels.
4- then this party will forward it to more appropriate party to deal with. And because the tests of 1 & 2 have not been met, the matter can not proceed.
And I'd appreciate the mod. to leave this post as is. TIA
Frankly, because this whole thread has drifted so far from the original topic, the whole thing should be nuked off the face of the earth. But I'd settle for a thread lock. 
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Need-based health care not greed-based health care. |
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root9
join:2005-04-08
Kitchener, ON
| reply to Deadpool
Oh you got it all wrong deadpool. I didn't make a request to anyone else but YOU on purpose. And I'm still making it seriously!
Why? Because in most of your posts you blab about how others should look up the laws, rules or whatever and prove it to you. You think this is going to hide you from misinformation that you spread? Not in my books. A large number of us have had enough!
If you are going to blab about CAIP or anything on here then YOU better show up with some laws and policies etc. instead of weaseling out of it by putting the onus on users.
Your job is to provide customer satisfaction in these forums. Therefore my challenge still stands!
Seems like I'm going to have to explain to you and everyone how YOU should be doing your job.
1- you were given my info
2- pass it on to appropriate party at Bell
3- the party will determine whether whether I'm for real or not. This way you don't get to know exactly who I am and privacy is kept at proper levels.
4- then this party will forward it to more appropriate party to deal with.
As for your CAIP comments: I want to see YOUR comprehensive proof substantiating your argument, legal or otherwise. 
And I'd appreciate the mod. to leave this post as is. TIA
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Please engage eyeballs and retain functional brain before operating fingers. |
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mordin
42 inches of 1080p
Premium
join:2005-05-28
Moncton, NB
| reply to marcbase
I was going to tell you to find where it says all employees must pass on a request for information but I figured you wouldn't bother so I found the section.
No where in there does it say anything of the sort. All a Bell employee has to do is tell the person requesting the information who to contact & how to go about it. As stated in 4.8.2 below...
4.8.2
The information made available shall include
(a) the name or title, and the address, of the person who is accountable for the organization’s policies and practices and to whom complaints or inquiries can be forwarded;
(b) the means of gaining access to personal information held by the organization;
(c) a description of the type of personal information held by the organization, including a general account of its use;
(d) a copy of any brochures or other information that explain the organization’s policies, standards, or codes; and
(e) what personal information is made available to related organizations (e.g., subsidiaries).
4.8.3
An organization may make information on its policies and practices available in a variety of ways. The method chosen depends on the nature of its business and other considerations. For example, an organization may choose to make brochures available in its place of business, mail information to its customers, provide online access, or establish a toll-free telephone number.
4.9 Principle 9 — Individual Access
Upon request, an individual shall be informed of the existence, use, and disclosure of his or her personal information and shall be given access to that information. An individual shall be able to challenge the accuracy and completeness of the information and have it amended as appropriate.
Note: In certain situations, an organization may not be able to provide access to all the personal information it holds about an individual. Exceptions to the access requirement should be limited and specific. The reasons for denying access should be provided to the individual upon request. Exceptions may include information that is prohibitively costly to provide, information that contains references to other individuals, information that cannot be disclosed for legal, security, or commercial proprietary reasons, and information that is subject to solicitor-client or litigation privilege.
4.9.1
Upon request, an organization shall inform an individual whether or not the organization holds personal information about the individual. Organizations are encouraged to indicate the source of this information. The organization shall allow the individual access to this information. However, the organization may choose to make sensitive medical information available through a medical practitioner. In addition, the organization shall provide an account of the use that has been made or is being made of this information and an account of the third parties to which it has been disclosed.
4.9.2
An individual may be required to provide sufficient information to permit an organization to provide an account of the existence, use, and disclosure of personal information. The information provided shall only be used for this purpose.
4.9.3
In providing an account of third parties to which it has disclosed personal information about an individual, an organization should attempt to be as specific as possible. When it is not possible to provide a list of the organizations to which it has actually disclosed information about an individual, the organization shall provide a list of organizations to which it may have disclosed information about the individual.
4.9.4
An organization shall respond to an individual’s request within a reasonable time and at minimal or no cost to the individual. The requested information shall be provided or made available in a form that is generally understandable. For example, if the organization uses abbreviations or codes to record information, an explanation shall be provided.
4.9.5
When an individual successfully demonstrates the inaccuracy or incompleteness of personal information, the organization shall amend the information as required. Depending upon the nature of the information challenged, amendment involves the correction, deletion, or addition of information. Where appropriate, the amended information shall be transmitted to third parties having access to the information in question.
4.9.6
When a challenge is not resolved to the satisfaction of the individual, the substance of the unresolved challenge shall be recorded by the organization. When appropriate, the existence of the unresolved challenge shall be transmitted to third parties having access to the information in question.
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Intel P4 2.8 800 fsb, Asus P4P800 w/1GB PC3200 DDR RAM, 512 MB GeForce 7600GT, SB Audigy Gamer, DVD-Rom/CD-R Burner & LG Duel layer DVD Burner, 320 & 120 GB Internal & 2x 250 & 3x 500 GB External hard drives & Samsung 226BW 22" LCD Monitor |
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drjp81
join:2006-01-09
canada
·TELUS
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| reply to marcbase
There are different laws that may apply here. 2 that I know of (for Mark's benefit, in French):
1-Loi sur l'accès à l'information ( L.R., 1985, ch. A-1 )
2-Loi sur la protection des renseignements personnels et les documents électroniques ( 2000, ch. 5 )
I think the second one my be pertinent as to Marc's argument/opinion: Here's the link : »lois.justice.gc.ca/fr/ShowTdm/cs/P-8.6///fr
Though the text (at a glance) doesn't seem to state exactly a defined and single procedure on how to obtain verification of the information to be verified, but it does say that ALL personally identifiable information must be disclosed and for transparency reasons, easily obtainable from the private corporation/entity.
If you look at part Annex 1, you may find important information on exactly what dispositions Bell should have endeavored and where it may have failed to do so. In any case a complaint to the commissioner is anonymous as outlined in the first part of the document.
If one is inclined to argue that throttling is violating privacy, I think this is the avenue to have that debate settled, once and for all.
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Cheers! |
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Bob605
@cia.com
| reply to marcbase
As any person who has even been involved in major corporate litigation will tell you, you must effect service of a legal notice upon the designated party. For example, if you serve the complaint to the incorrect person or office or deisgnated officer (usually privacy office), it isn't considered a valid notice.
This stuff happens all the time, especially in government because often in a case where the gov't hires a private law firm to handle a case, a party frequently serves the in house counsel with a notice or order. This doesn't start the clock ticking because it was improper when it is specified that a certain party is the designated recipient of all notices. |
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marcbase
join:2008-07-31
j3y-8v5 | reply to oh LOOK
Im not talking about any protection here... read carefully, im talking about the right to information and YES canada applies this right to everything and everyone and every business in Canada. no exception whatsoever |
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sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
H0H 0H0 | reply to marcbase
Again someone makes the mistake of assuming the charter applies to all and sundry. The charter applies to government and agencies of government in enacting and enforcing laws. Any protection you gain from the charter comes from other legislation. |
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marcbase
join:2008-07-31
j3y-8v5
| reply to oh LOOK
As i said in a previous post, if he doesnt give you the information like the b1 or adress etc, you dont have to forward it because you cant prove his identity. Freedom of information is on the human rights charter isnt it? And by federal law, canada has to follow the charter of human rights. |
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Deadpool
Go Sens Go
Premium,VIP
join:2001-03-29
Canada
·Bell Sympatico
| reply to marcbase
Do you happen to have a link that supports your claim of it being "federal law"?
That aside, I've already made it clear that I couldn't have forwarded the info anyhow.
Why?
Because the only informattion root9/tudmax PM'd me was a phone number. No first name, no last name, no B1, no address, no payment info, etc...
Nothing that could prove who the phone number belongs to that can't be found in a phone book.
And guess what? The Privacy Ombudsman would have asked me for that info - which I don't have.
And you'd think that if root9/tudmax was actually serious about this that he/she would have PM'd me the additional info I needed by now when I stated as much many days ago, but no, that hasn't been done.
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Disclaimer: If I express an opinion, it is my own opinion, not that of Bell or its related companies. |
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marcbase
join:2008-07-31
j3y-8v5
| reply to oh LOOK
By law, an employee, if asked to forward a demand for information to a company has to do it. Thats it, dont tell me Bell says that they dont have on their website, its false, THEY HAVE TO. unless bell is higher then federal law. Dont try to say that i am not right, my siter is a lawyer and both my parents work for government agencies. Face it, he has to forward it because he was ASKED to do it. |
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root9
join:2005-04-08
Kitchener, ON
| reply to mordin
Thanx mordin, although i've been there done that.
It has actually taken me/us about 5 months to gather enough info due to Bell site being all over the place, employees don't know squat or mislead ppl. Seems like they have systematically hidden the info all over to make sure it's hard to find much of it. Much of it contradicts it's self, is vague, distorted or even false. And my lawyers love it. Makes for much bigger bill to Bell 
And i pitty the ppl who refused to listen.
Now to wade through all of it.
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Please engage eyeballs and retain functional brain before operating fingers. |
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mordin
42 inches of 1080p
Premium
join:2005-05-28
Moncton, NB
| reply to root9
said by root9 :Thank you whoever pointed me to this Bell's employee code of conduct. Well then you should also check out »www.bce.ca/en/responsibility/cus···ndex.php
and click the Customer 'Privacy Policy' link under 'Resource Room' on the right. It will tell you the same thing deadpool told you & the same thing you should get from any Bell front line employee.
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Intel P4 2.8 800 fsb, Asus P4P800 w/1GB PC3200 DDR RAM, 512 MB GeForce 7600GT, SB Audigy Gamer, DVD-Rom/CD-R Burner & LG Duel layer DVD Burner, 320 & 120 GB Internal & 2x 250 & 3x 500 GB External hard drives & Samsung 226BW 22" LCD Monitor |
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mordin
42 inches of 1080p
Premium
join:2005-05-28
Moncton, NB
| reply to chronoss2008
said by chronoss2008 :Does my landlord rent me a room and tell me that for 12 hrs a day i am only allowed into 5% of the place. NO cause landlord and tenant laws protect me versus that. If it's in the contract... The Bell contract states 'up to' depending on conditions, it also states they can alter the contract and manage their network how they see fit - don't like the terms then don't sign the contract.
Oh by the way a lot of airlines over sell the seats based on the average cancellations/no shows although I don't know how wide spread it is today.
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Intel P4 2.8 800 fsb, Asus P4P800 w/1GB PC3200 DDR RAM, 512 MB GeForce 7600GT, SB Audigy Gamer, DVD-Rom/CD-R Burner & LG Duel layer DVD Burner, 320 & 120 GB Internal & 2x 250 & 3x 500 GB External hard drives & Samsung 226BW 22" LCD Monitor |
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