Millenniumle
join:2007-11-11
Fredonia, NY
| reply to Matt
Re: You can thank p2p
Ever heard of theft of services?
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theft_of_services
Theft of services is the legal term for a crime which is committed when a person obtains valuable services — as opposed to goods — by deception, force, threat or other unlawful means, i.e., without lawfully compensating the provider of said services. So it isn't as cut and dry as your diagram suggests. The english language is a complex thing. Here, like piracy, the emphasis of the word theft is on "using without paying" rather than "taking without paying." |
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hopeflicker
Capitalism breeds greed
Premium
join:2003-04-03
Long Beach, CA
| said by Millenniumle  :Ever heard of theft of services? » en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theft_of_servicesTheft of services is the legal term for a crime which is committed when a person obtains valuable services — as opposed to goods — by deception, force, threat or other unlawful means, i.e., without lawfully compensating the provider of said services. So it isn't as cut and dry as your diagram suggests. The english language is a complex thing. Here, like piracy, the emphasis of the word theft is on "using without paying" rather than "taking without paying." Last time i looked MOVIES, MUSIC, and APPLICATIONS were not a service. They are a product.
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Religion does three things quite effectively: Divides people, Controls people, Deludes people. |
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Millenniumle
join:2007-11-11
Fredonia, NY
| Last time I read my post I pointed out that the emphasis was on "using without paying" rather than "taking without paying."
The concept of "using without paying" as theft has been in law long before P2P and well outside of RIAA & MPAA influence. |
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JasonOD
@comcast.net
| reply to Millenniumle
I'd expand that definition to include charging $75 (for those who haven't been caught going over a gig) & $65 (for those that have) for 1GB service.
This is either a case of taking advantage of the marketplace due to lack of competition, or they're in trouble (much like Frontier's actions). |
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S_engineer
join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL
 ·Comcast
| reply to Millenniumle
the p2p argument is just an excuse to get away from the "unlimited" usage, and go to a much more profitable metered usage basis. You will see the carriers in this stange type of collusion when they don't have to be.
This is the anti-competition argument. When all companies pull the same sh*t, the consumer loses.
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The "Lifetime" channel is responsible for 83% of all divorces...Robert Ginty |
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karlmarx
join:2006-09-18
iraq
 ·Fairpoint Communic..
| reply to Millenniumle
You said it correctly. However, If I stayed in a house and didn't pay rent, that would not be theft.
From the DICTIONARY : Main Entry: theft 1 a: the act of stealing; specifically : the felonious taking and removing of personal property with intent to deprive the rightful owner of it b: an unlawful taking (as by embezzlement or burglary) of property.
Piracy does not meet either of those terms, because NOTHING IS TAKEN. Ergo, it is not THEFT, it is infringement.
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The happiest countries are the most secular. The struggle AGAINST corporations is the struggle FOR humanity! |
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ninjatutle
Premium
join:2006-01-02
San Ramon, CA | Stealing = Taking something that aint yours. |
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karlmarx
join:2006-09-18
iraq
·Fairpoint Communic..
| But you didn't TAKE anything. You made a copy. If star trek replicators worked today, would you consider anything that was made with them to be stealing too? Absolutely not, because the original still exists.
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The happiest countries are the most secular. The struggle AGAINST corporations is the struggle FOR humanity! |
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ninjatutle
Premium
join:2006-01-02
San Ramon, CA | Maybe a 6 y/o would believe you. Did you make up these "theories" on your own? |
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tiger9
join:2005-08-01
Ont,Canada | Technically, piracy is not theft. Either way, infringement or theft, whichever way you look it at, it's still not a good thing. |
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Millenniumle
join:2007-11-11
Fredonia, NY
| reply to karlmarx
And the definitions go on:
Yours says: "the act of stealing."
And if we look up what it is to steal we find:
»dictionary.reference.com/browse/steal
1. take without the owner's consent; Which is why, in law, we find theft of services even though property is not taken. Instead, use of the house is "taken" (which also means 'not paid for')
Which is why taking a copy of copyrighted material (without the consent of the copyright owner) is also theft. |
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ninjatutle
Premium
join:2006-01-02
San Ramon, CA
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
| Its no use, he just pretends not to understand... |
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karlmarx
join:2006-09-18
iraq
·Fairpoint Communic..
| reply to Millenniumle
So, by your own definition, copyright infringment should be a felony? I mean, the law defines 'theft' as a felony, while the law defines 'infringement' as a civil matter. Of course, you used the word 'steal', which is different than theft. You accuse people of STEALING, when they are not, they are infringing. You accuse people of theft, yet the courts do not consider it theft, otherwise, there would be criminal charges filed, not civil charges.
The word makes the crime. If you say rape is a 'hate crime', then you are doing a disservice to both rape victims and hate crime victims, because they are two totally different things.
When you say infringement is 'stealing', you are attempting to make a CIVIL matter into a CRIMINAL matter, which it's not.
Why don't you just call it what it is, INFRINGEMENT. Ahh, because you can't rile up the unwashed masses with the term 'infringement', while you CAN rile them up by accusing people of STEALING, which they are not!
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The happiest countries are the most secular. The struggle AGAINST corporations is the struggle FOR humanity! |
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Millenniumle
join:2007-11-11
Fredonia, NY
| Copyright infringement is in criminal law. It is a crime. A felony in infringement is the same as in theft - dependant upon severity. You know? Carrying off with a piece of gum isn't going to draw the same charges as kyping a nice new Maserati off the dealer lot. The police who go after y'old bad guys, not the courts, don't have the resources to go after all the little joe-blows copying Madonna's latest.
Like it or not, copyright infringement falls in with the well established use of the word theft. People who don't pay for their copies are thieves in the same way as, in criminal law, people who don't pay for services are considered thieves. In fact, they even call it 'theft of services.' Weird!!
But...., I digress. I think you already know all this. Then again, maybe it really does escape you? |
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Bellundo
@teksavvy.com
| reply to karlmarx
Not in Alberta where Telus is. A good many of them skip out without paying a cent then do the same thing next month and keep on moving from month to month. Others just stay the 90 days until a court order evicts them. Real estate prices have plummeted there thanks to sellers who can't rent their units out because the whole province are nothing but deadbeats. |
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