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diskace
Ebox Senior
Premium,VIP
join:2002-02-21 | Re: CIA in trouble with Bell! Cybersurf claims Bell and other suppliers have overcharged the company, and it is in the middle of negotiating what is owed.
Not really hard to believe....
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donoreo
Premium
join:2002-05-30
North York, ON | I guess it is finally time to get rid of my IGS service and move to Teksavvy. | |
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Scoop
join:2006-08-05
Ottawa, ON
 ·TekSavvy Solutions..
| Re: CIA in trouble with Bell! said by donoreo  :I guess it is finally time to get rid of my IGS service and move to Teksavvy. You should have done it a long time ago. | |
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HiVolt
29
Premium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
clubs:
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Bell Sympatico
| Re: CIA in trouble with Bell! said by Scoop :said by donoreo :I guess it is finally time to get rid of my IGS service and move to Teksavvy. You should have done it a long time ago. Yeah. IGS was good when it was it's own entity. When ISP's get swallowed up things often go sour.
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| | elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
join:2006-08-30
Toronto, ON
| said by Scoop :said by donoreo :I guess it is finally time to get rid of my IGS service and move to Teksavvy. You should have done it a long time ago. You have HUGE issues with 3web, your posts (when related to 3web) are always negative.. why is that? | |
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Scoop
join:2006-08-05
Ottawa, ON
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| Re: CIA in trouble with Bell! said by elwoodblues :said by Scoop :said by donoreo :I guess it is finally time to get rid of my IGS service and move to Teksavvy. You should have done it a long time ago. You have HUGE issues with 3web, your posts (when related to 3web) are always negative.. why is that? You're right I do have huge issues with them having dealt with their piss poor customer service and non-existent and inept "technical support". I've also waited for hours for someone to answer the phone which is not acceptable. I'll continue to steer people away from 3Web/CIA at every chance I get. More recently people have mentioned improved service but I've still see no comments regarding improved customer service or tech support. | |
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Elwood Blues
join:2006-08-30
Toronto, ON
| Re: CIA in trouble with Bell! said by Scoop :You're right I do have huge issues with them having dealt with their piss poor customer service and non-existent and inept "technical support". I've also waited for hours for someone to answer the phone which is not acceptable. I'll continue to steer people away from 3Web/CIA at every chance I get. More recently people have mentioned improved service but I've still see no comments regarding improved customer service or tech support. To be honest I haven't called Tech support in a VERY VERY long time, has it gotten better? No idea, I just have had no issues. | |
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HiVolt
29
Premium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
clubs: | Weren't there rumors of a similar problem Cybersurf had with Rogers?
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Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
·Colbanet
| Funny... iStop did the exact same thing. They paid Bell based on what they thought Bell should charge them, rather than what Bell actually did charge them. And then Bell killed iStop for non-payment.
iStop's official transfer ISP was Cybersurf, IIRC. And now Cybersurf is in exactly the same situation; they aren't paying their bills and are about to get canned.
Take my advice: switch ISPs before Bell cuts them off. Switching now is easy. Switching after Bell cuts them off can cause days or weeks without service.
From what I recall, when iStop tanked (I had switched off iStop a few months before that happened), other ISPs were given an extremely short period of time to transfer iStop customers before those customers were completely disconnected.
So, save yourself the trouble... abandon ship while you have the chance! | |
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Kardinal
Canadair CT-114 Tutor
Premium
join:2001-02-04
N of 49th
clubs:
| Re: CIA in trouble with Bell! said by Guspaz :Funny... iStop did the exact same thing. They paid Bell based on what they thought Bell should charge them, rather than what Bell actually did charge them. And then Bell killed iStop for non-payment. iStop's official transfer ISP was Cybersurf, IIRC. And now Cybersurf is in exactly the same situation; they aren't paying their bills and are about to get canned. I was just about to point out the same thing in another thread on the subject: it sounds an awful lot like what Ralph whined about for years and did everything he could to avoid patying his bills (CRTC complaints, court injunctions, etc). The fact that it was CIA/3web/Cybersurf who bought a lot of his customers and are now in the same situation is a bit of delicious irony, don't you think? 
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All of the opinions I express are mine alone, and they have even been known to change from time to time.
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jfmezei
Premium
join:2007-01-03
Beaconsfield, QC
·ELECTRONICBOX
| I am not sure what to make of this.
Cybersurf's financials have, for some time, indicated that they were not profitable yet. But I am not sure that this would indicate that they were unable to pay Bell's bills.
Making this public via the CBC will make it harder for Bell to pull the plug and put some pressure on Bell to settle those accounts.
One would need to get some insight on the scale of the amount in areers, as well as the reason for it. However, the proper procedure is to pay those buills and then contest them. Contesting them and not paying them in full is NOT proper procedure.
In the case of ISTOP, eventually, Bell Canada asked ISTOP to make a deposit of $300k and Ralph went to the CRTC. The CRTC agreed with Bell's demand since ISTOP was still not paying in full and was thus a credit risk and Bell was within its rights to demand a deposit.
So this is a story to follow. Not sure how it will unfold. But I don't think it is something to be immediate. Contrary to ISTOP, when Bell pulls the plug on Cybersurf, a lot of its operations will continue (cable, and DSL in Telus land). Not sure how they will handle DSL customers in Bell territory. (whether they will hand them over to another DSL ISP, of whether they would try to move them to cable etc.
ISTOP had also been legally structured into a numbered company that had few assets, so when Bell pulled the plug, there wasn't much in terms of assets to seize. But in the case of Cybersurf, if Bell gets nasty, it could force Cybersurf into receivership to seize whatever assets Cybersurf might have with its other operations.
But I don't think it will come to that. If Bell increases the pressure, Cybersurf might end up paying up. This will cause its cash reserves to go down faster than anticipated, but I don't think it would shut it down right away. | |
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Bellundo
@teksavvy.com
| Re: CIA in trouble with Bell! Bell will put a lien against all of cybersurf's assets and any future profits they may make. Of course we know they'll never make any as every Canadian company quote "cooks the books" but never gets caught. Canadian is the most dishonest and corrupt country in the world. | |
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| | HeadSpinning
join:2005-05-29
Windsor, ON
| Re: CIA in trouble with Bell! said by Bellundo :
Bell will put a lien against all of cybersurf's assets and any future profits they may make. Of course we know they'll never make any as every Canadian company quote "cooks the books" but never gets caught. Canadian is the most dishonest and corrupt country in the world.
That isn't how Bell handles these situations. They will serve notice to disconnect, and unless they pay up, or get a court order to block disconnection, they will pull the plug. | |
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anon149
@vaxination.ca
| Re: CIA in trouble with Bell! >That isn't how Bell handles these situations. They will serve
>notice to disconnect, and unless they pay up, or get a court
>order to block disconnection, they will pull the plug.
If company X owes Bell 2 million bucks in unpaid bills, Bell will not only disconnect, but will also want to take whatever steps are possible to recover as much of the 2 million it is owed as possible.
If X has no assets and no profits, Bell may decide that it is not worth paying its lawyers to try to recover pennies on the dollar. But if X has money/assets, Bell may see possibility to recover more than the cost of recovery and thus reduce the amount it needs to write off. | |
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| | | | HeadSpinning
join:2005-05-29
Windsor, ON | Re: CIA in trouble with Bell! Well X likely has no assets or future profits, so Bell will just yank the plug and cut their losses.
The customer base is of no value to Bell. | |
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| | elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
join:2006-08-30
Toronto, ON
| said by Bellundo :
Bell will put a lien against all of cybersurf's assets and any future profits they may make. Of course we know they'll never make any as every Canadian company quote "cooks the books" but never gets caught. Canadian is the most dishonest and corrupt country in the world.
I'm sorry, but where did the Subprime mess emerge from? Or how about the Asset Backed Commercial Paper mess? | |
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jfmezei
Premium
join:2007-01-03
Beaconsfield, QC
·ELECTRONICBOX
| re: ISTOP
We don't know the full story. However, while reading the hostory of GAS for my CRTC submission, I did stumble on some explanations.
Bell Nexxia originally did not offer a "GAS" service per say. Eventually, it structured an offering as GAS with AHSSPI, and this is what was later presented to the CRTC to be made official tariffs in 2005.
ISTOP had apparantly signed contracts with NEXXIA prior to GAS being offered and NEXXIA continued to bill ISTOP at the pre-GAS rates which were higher (since Ralph was under contract). When NEXXIA was disolved, Ralph argued that NEXXIA's contracts should be made null/void and that he should be billed at the new lower GAS rates now offered by Bell Canada. CRTC decided that Nexxia was simply brought back into Bell and that existing contracts would continue under Bell.
When Bell demanded ISTOP make a $300k deposit in late 2004, the CRTC ruled in march 2005 that such payment should be made not because of the dispute dating from the Nexxia days, but because ISTOP was still not making payments in full for the now-CRTC-approved GAS/AHSSPI service. The arreers were at the tune of 1.8 million bucks. | |
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| shepd
join:2004-01-17
Kitchener, ON
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| Re: CIA in trouble with Bell! said by jfmezei :re: ISTOP ISTOP had apparantly signed contracts with NEXXIA prior to GAS being offered and NEXXIA continued to bill ISTOP at the pre-GAS rates which were higher (since Ralph was under contract). When NEXXIA was disolved, Ralph argued that NEXXIA's contracts should be made null/void and that he should be billed at the new lower GAS rates now offered by Bell Canada. CRTC decided that Nexxia was simply brought back into Bell and that existing contracts would continue under Bell. When Bell demanded ISTOP make a $300k deposit in late 2004, the CRTC ruled in march 2005 that such payment should be made not because of the dispute dating from the Nexxia days, but because ISTOP was still not making payments in full for the now-CRTC-approved GAS/AHSSPI service. The arreers were at the tune of 1.8 million bucks. This sounds spot on and explains why I was able to get business unlimited HSA for ~$99/month from iStop when everyone else was $300/month. I called around and as soon as I mentioned iStop they basically said there was no way they could match those prices.
I'm surprised iStop didn't just say forget it to GAS and become an HSA reseller to other companies, Ralph could have made a killing and raped the hell out of Bell. Or at least cut into Bell's profit margin enough they'd be happy to renegotiate the contract (personally, I'd keep it and open a separate company with the new contract for my GAS accounts).
It's really too bad, I loved iStop while it was running, and stuck with them all the way until the end. | |
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JayMan
Whoot
Premium
join:2002-06-05
Earth | Oh here we go again, ISTOP the story Part 2. | |
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HiVolt
29
Premium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
clubs: | Re: CIA in trouble with Bell! Maybe ol Ralphie is calling the shots somewhere behind the scenes at Cybersurf... 
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anon149
@vaxination.ca
| Re: CIA in trouble with Bell! One thing to remember is that Cybersurf, in recent years, has purchased many different smaller ISPs (not just IGS). As they amalgamated the networks, I suspect it must have been a billing nightmare with regards to moving one domain (like "surf the net") from its own Bell account into the cybersurf main account.
Consider cases of a smaller ISP having a 3 year contract for service, and Bell continuing to bill for that service even though it would have been merged into the main cybersurf service agreement.
Consider also the possibility that some of the purchased ISPs had debts with Bell already, and Cybersurf then becomes resposible for them but won't pay them until it ensure those debts are real and not just billing errors.
There are a whole range of possibilities here. About the only way to get some insight would be if Cybersurf went to the CRTC to request a stay of execution, at which point, pubnlic documents would likely contain additional details on the nature and size of the debts. | |
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RR Conductor
RailRoadDude
Premium
join:2002-04-02
Redwood Valley, CA | Man, and here I thought you were talking about our CIA  | |
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damir
SFRJ
Premium
join:2003-05-24 | Re: CIA in trouble with Bell! How they started (BELL i mean) soon they will get "your" CIA | |
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donoreo
Premium
join:2002-05-30
North York, ON
| I never switched because I never had any problems. Do not fix it if it is not broken. I have a static IP and everything works. I may pick up a second IP at Teksavvy, be nice to have.
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The irony of common sense, it is not that common
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anon149
@vaxination.ca
| Re: CIA in trouble with Bell! >I never switched because I never had any problems. Do not fix
>it if it is not broken. I have a static IP and everything
>works. I may pick up a second IP at Teksavvy, be nice to
>have.
You just need to be aware that *IF* Bell does decide to pull the plug, there will not be any advance public warning, and you will suddently be stuck without ADSL service and scrambling to find an alternate service before Bell pulls your line card. In the case of ISTOP, they started to pull line cards within minutes of pulling the plug on ISTOP itself. So you may be a few days without service if they agressively start pulling line cards.
This may or may not happen for Cybersurf. I think ISTOP was probably a worse case scenario, and it left a number of customers without ADSL service for days until the line cards were put back in at the request of a new ISP.
There was about 6 month delay between first real threath of pulling the plug and Bell actually pulling the plug on ISTOP. (Ralph probably knew more than 6 months before).
Cybersurf is larger, and probably has more ADSL customers in Bell territory than ISTOP had, so Bell would weigh the PR cost of disconnecting a larger number of customers before pulling the plug. | |
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MizTEcK
join:2003-08-01
North York, ON | wait wait, so will this affect my CIA cable internet?
no right? | |
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koreyb
join:2005-01-08
Etobicoke, ON | It shouldn't effect anything accept DSL in Bell areas... Unless Cybersurf uses any Bell network lines between rogers, themselves and their backbone network. | |
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