[Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations

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drew Reformation Premium join:2002-07-10 Port Orchard, WA clubs:	[Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations My piss-n-moan for the day: You don't need to be in full T5 or T6 to run heroic Crypts.
	permalink · 2008-09-15 17:15:57 ·

DownLow Nope...I Got Nothing Premium join:2001-04-25 Long Island	Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations You do if you tank, heal or DPS are lousy players! -- Cleverly Disguised As A Responsible Adult!
	permalink · 2008-09-15 17:19:50 ·

chaud Serious Business join:2004-07-09 Anderson, SC	I don't even bother with someone not at least in T4/Badge gear anymore.
	permalink · 2008-09-15 17:28:48 ·

drew Reformation Premium join:2002-07-10 Port Orchard, WA clubs:	Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations 1) Where else are they supposed to gear up for raiding if not in Heroics... 2) I'm in badge loot and kara pieces with a piece from the Eye...
	permalink · 2008-09-15 17:35:35 ·

chaud Serious Business join:2004-07-09 Anderson, SC	Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations 1) Who cares, they are not my problem.
	permalink · 2008-09-15 17:50:18 ·

drew Reformation Premium join:2002-07-10 Port Orchard, WA clubs:	Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations That's a total dick move. In a guild situation? Yeah, I can totally see that. In a pug for the daily heroic? Total dick move.
	permalink · 2008-09-15 17:52:56 ·

chaud Serious Business join:2004-07-09 Anderson, SC	Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations You mean the other way around? I would care a little bit if they were in my guild. But why bother for a pug?
	permalink · 2008-09-15 17:53:41 ·

drew Reformation Premium join:2002-07-10 Port Orchard, WA clubs: ·wavebroadband	Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations I mean it in a 'I wouldn't let some shitty geared guy in our guild. We're on T6 content, why do we need someone in T4?' sense. In a pick up group for exceptionally trivial content, why would one need to be overgeared? I'd HOPE for those players, but certainly not require someone to have outgeared the content three or four times over.
	permalink · 2008-09-15 17:56:16 ·

Thaler
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Encino, CA

Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations

said by drew

:

In a pick up group for exceptionally trivial content, why would one need to be overgeared? I'd HOPE for those players, but certainly not require someone to have outgeared the content three or four times over.

Supply-and-demand, as well as the better-than-thou attitude.

There's just so many players out there, and at the end-game, gear is widely distributed. It sounds like on your server, T5/badge gear is about the "norm" for gear out there.

Plus, a lot of geared players want a guaranteed run, and don't want to waste time. If they pick up an "undergeared" person, then the rest of the group will piss/moan/wine over the lack of gear, and the group falls apart. Basically, if they're T6+, then they expect the rest of their PUG element to be - otherwise it's a "waste of time".

said by drew

:

1) Where else are they supposed to gear up for raiding if not in Heroics...

said by chaud

:

1) Who cares, they are not my problem.

There's your answer. Other players just simply do not care.

permalink · 2008-09-15 18:15:53 · Print ·

Jakiel00 join:2007-12-12 Mckinney, TX	really depends on the grp gear. If its me and my guildies and a guy with so-so gear, then I don't mind running through since we can carry the other player. We do this in Kara all the time and still full clear it in 3 hours.
	permalink · 2008-09-15 17:41:09 ·

Thaler Premium join:2004-02-02 Encino, CA	Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations said by Jakiel00 : really depends on the grp gear. No it doesn't. All heroics can be done in blues. It was done then in blues, and can be done today. The issue is getting other people to join you for it.
	permalink · 2008-09-15 18:20:16 ·

Jakiel00 join:2007-12-12 Mckinney, TX	Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations said by Thaler : said by Jakiel00 : really depends on the grp gear. No it doesn't. All heroics can be done in blues. It was done then in blues, and can be done today. The issue is getting other people to join you for it. Yes it does. Try running Heroic SV in all Blues. Its fun. And when I mean fun I mean taking a power drill to my eye socket fun.
	permalink · 2008-09-16 10:48:28 · Print ·

pp03

join:2002-06-13
Minneapolis, MN

1 edit

Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations

said by Jakiel00

said by Thaler

said by Jakiel00

:

really depends on the grp gear.

No it doesn't. All heroics can be done in blues. It was done then in blues, and can be done today. The issue is getting other people to join you for it.

Yes it does. Try running Heroic SV in all Blues. Its fun. And when I mean fun I mean taking a power drill to my eye socket fun.

What was your class make up running it in blues?

That will be another thing gone in WoTLK.

Probably would have been easy as Warrior tank, priest healer, two mages, and any other dps (pref rogue).

Then, even in blues it will be very easy -- all cc possible, spell reflects, aoe damage, all cures needed, aoe heals, pre heals, hot's, etc.

Makeup is very important right now when you don't out gear something, that is why I love wotlk more and more.

edit, roge is not a class.
--
The History Channel rocks! ... you know it!

permalink · 2008-09-16 10:56:05 · Print ·

Thaler
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said by Jakiel00

:

Yes it does. Try running Heroic SV in all Blues. Its fun. And when I mean fun I mean taking a power drill to my eye socket fun.

I dunno what issues you had then. I ran Heroic SV just fine in a group makeup of blues/craftables and had no real issues.

Plus, I never said that running heroics in blues would be as easy as running them in T6, but they are defiantely doable. Anyone who says you *need* T5/6 to clear a heroic 5-man seriously doesn't know how to play the game.

permalink · 2008-09-16 11:02:42 · Print ·

Jakiel00

join:2007-12-12
Mckinney, TX

Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations

said by Thaler

said by Jakiel00

:

Yes it does. Try running Heroic SV in all Blues. Its fun. And when I mean fun I mean taking a power drill to my eye socket fun.

Did I say that you said that? Alls I am saying that when my guildies and I run, we don't mind taking an undergeared played for a heroic. Its all in good fun and we don't mind helping out. We aren't elitest like that. If I I was starting all over, a grp in blues would be alot more "challenging" and I am thankful we are past that part.

When we ran H SV, we didn't have craftables from what I remember. It was all Blue crap from some of the higher level quests.

permalink · 2008-09-16 11:13:34 · Print ·

Thaler
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Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations

said by Jakiel00

:

When we ran H SV, we didn't have craftables from what I remember. It was all Blue crap from some of the higher level quests.

Damn, that is a challenging mode then, lol. Usually what I mean by "blues" are the level 70 kind. If you ran Hero SV off TBC quest rewards...yeeg, that could be kinda messy.

But yeah, I'm not speaking personally to how you and your friends run groups, I'm more talking about the PUG market in general. Hell, on my server, my T5/Badge Vendor hunter was shunned away at times because I had full high quality PvE epics...AND ONE BLUE. Holy crap, we're all gonna die because the hunter has a blue trinket!!!

...yeah, I'm speaking more about the people running groups like that.

permalink · 2008-09-16 11:17:20 · Print ·

Jakiel00 join:2007-12-12 Mckinney, TX	Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations Ah ok Gotcha. You were shunned away because of one blue!?!?!?! That is insane! I would seriously take a good hunter with PVE epics for the CC ability in a heartbeat! Still looking forward to seeing the gear in the early WOTLK content and how it will correlate with the Epics we have now.
	permalink · 2008-09-16 11:20:52 ·

Thaler Premium join:2004-02-02 Encino, CA	Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations said by Jakiel00 : Ah ok Gotcha. You were shunned away because of one blue!?!?!?! That is insane! I would seriously take a good hunter with PVE epics for the CC ability in a heartbeat! Yup. The kicker was that it was Heroic Mech.
	permalink · 2008-09-16 11:25:03 ·

Jakiel00 join:2007-12-12 Mckinney, TX	Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations Dang! That is the icing on the cake right there I would put those guys on my ignore list
	permalink · 2008-09-16 11:46:49 ·

chaud
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said by Jakiel00

:

Ah ok Gotcha. You were shunned away because of one blue!?!?!?! That is insane! I would seriously take a good hunter with PVE epics for the CC ability in a heartbeat!

Still looking forward to seeing the gear in the early WOTLK content and how it will correlate with the Epics we have now.

I wouldn't run anything with a person that still has a blue. :P
I don't know what you are "looking forward to". A lot of the items that you will see up to 80 are already there for looking at.

As far as gearing up a new person, guilds will take you and gear you if you are not a moron and show up on time with everything every night. There is a shortage of non-morons / people that still want to raid. Gearing up is fairly easy.

permalink · 2008-09-16 12:11:02 · Print ·

badtrip
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Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations

said by chaud

:

I wouldn't run anything with a person that still has a blue. :P

And those of us in blues don't want to run anything with a player that has an attitude such as yours.

WoW's playerbase has really slipped quality-wise in the past year. It has become little more than a middle school lunch yard were folks are ostracized because they are wearing the epeen equivalent to Prowings.

permalink · 2008-09-16 12:26:13 · Print ·

chaud
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Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations

That is why those players in blues are still in blues and continue to dislike me, while the rest of the realm invites me to runs / raids because I am competent.

If you are a "hyper-casual", I don't want to even run something with you. It is far more likely that you are an incompetent player when you are poorly geared, and even on the rare chance that you have an idea of what you are doing, your dps is slightly above the druid tanks.

permalink · 2008-09-16 12:31:08 ·

Thaler
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Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations

said by chaud

:

If you are a "hyper-casual", I don't want to even run something with you. It is far more likely that you are an incompetent player when you are poorly geared, and even on the rare chance that you have an idea of what you are doing, your dps is slightly above the druid tanks.

Spoken like someone who hasn't a clue what they're talking about. These are the geared folks I love to see pulling a boner in Heroic PUGs (they rely upon their gear to pull them through, often enough with hilarious results), or they were the geared folks that my hunter would blow outta the water in DPS while in my gearing-up blues/purples.

Honestly, I've been playing this game long enough to know that gear =! good player. I'd rather have an undergeared player I *know* to be competant, rather than a random T5/6 yutz from the LFG queue.

...and no, having blues does not make you automatically "hyper-casual". Often enough, there are a few blue pieces that have no equal until much later in the gearing process. For example, the one blue my hunter had for the longest was the Hourglass of the Unraveler. It wasn't until I got the DST on a rare free-roll that I finally got to replace it.

People who compose their PUGs soley based upon the color pixels they see on the armory page deserve the quality of player/group they get.

permalink · 2008-09-16 12:38:53 · Print ·

chaud
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Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations

said by Thaler

:

Honestly, I've been playing this game long enough to know that gear =! good player. I'd rather have an undergeared player I *know* to be competant, rather than a random T5/6 yutz from the LFG queue.

People who compose their PUGs soley based upon the color pixels they see on the armory page deserve the quality of player/group they get.

My groups almost never wipe, and usually complete instances very fast. When I am invited to a raid, I stay out of the fire, or do whatever else needs to be done properly. I don't have amazing gear, but people still take me to things anyway.
Blues are blues. Not much more to say there. The random T6 person in LFG, or even better, on my friends list will be going with me over the random Brazilian in blues. I think it is fairly clear that I am not a nice person, and when I log on to do something, I do it as fast as possible, which does not include taking someone lesser geared. I built up enough friends / guilds that I know to never have to really pug anything with anyone under T5 ish level of gear. So yeah, groups from armory with purples worked out very well for me.

said by badtrip

:

It takes a ton skill to be able to press a sequence of buttons over and over.
However, despite my obvious mastery of binding keys ans pressing them in order, according to some WoW players, I am only passible as a warlock because my hit rating is under 209 and my spell damage is 900 unbuffed. Further, my tanking skills and healing skills are horrendous as you can see by my respective toon's gear.

It takes not being a moron and staying out of fire / doing your job to become geared, at least compared to the afkraiding of pre-BC. Wouldn't take your paladin or priest to anything I do in game.

said by badtrip

said by chaud

:

That is why those players in blues are still in blues and continue to dislike me, while the rest of the realm invites me to runs / raids because I am competent.

You fail at WoW elitism, BTW.Your gear is hardly impressive, your toon is about a half a notch above a toon who has yet to go into Kara. Your mage has nothing but welfare epics a few badge rewards (low-end badge rewards as a matter of fact) a ZA drop and crafted epics.

Plus, your hit rating is only 67, as a fire mage, you should have a 164 spell hit rating at level 70. Further, couple that with only 974 +spell damage and I highly doubt you are hitting the single target 1000 DPS threshold you should be at as a "hardcore raider" getting ready to hit 25-mans.

Maybe you missed the part where I don't raid at all. I go to random guilds ZA, SSC, or TK with a different gearset when asked, without expecting loot. I enjoy doing something fun once in a while, not having to show up for raids, and having a good time on vent. You must have missed the part where I said my gear is trash, and I play this game for PvP.
I know how to play my class. Also, I hear 974 = 1146.

For whoever asked about the gear,
»wotlkwiki.info/index.php/Naxxram···_10_Sets
»wotlk.wowhead.com/?items&filter=···=1;crv=0
»www.mmo-champion.com/index.php?topic=15674.0
ect.

permalink · 2008-09-16 15:30:57 · Print ·

Garbs Mudhole? Slimy? My home this is. Premium,MVM join:2002-08-27 Garden State	Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations Ok, I'll bite .. what is a "random Brazilian in blues" supposed to mean?
	permalink · 2008-09-16 16:36:22 ·

chaud Serious Business join:2004-07-09 Anderson, SC	Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations It is next to impossible to find English speaking players on my realm anymore. The awful Brazilians have invaded, and are terribad at this game for the most part. All my friends xfered or ebayed, which is why I haven't really played since Feb.
	permalink · 2008-09-16 16:43:07 ·

DownLow Nope...I Got Nothing Premium join:2001-04-25 Long Island	said by Garbs : Ok, I'll bite .. what is a "random Brazilian in blues" supposed to mean? I think exactly that..the random "english isn't my language" player that always seems to pop up.
	permalink · 2008-09-16 16:43:30 ·

chaud Serious Business join:2004-07-09 Anderson, SC ·Charter VOIP ·Packet8 1 edit	Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations Try almost every player being "English isn't my language". »forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa···eNo=2#39 A friend put it best, and nicely there.
	permalink · 2008-09-16 16:44:48 ·

kc0bbq join:2001-03-22 Cottage Grove, MN	said by Garbs : Ok, I'll bite .. what is a "random Brazilian in blues" supposed to mean? Just racism.
	permalink · 2008-09-16 16:44:32 ·

Garbs Mudhole? Slimy? My home this is. Premium,MVM join:2002-08-27 Garden State	Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations said by kc0bbq : said by Garbs : Ok, I'll bite .. what is a "random Brazilian in blues" supposed to mean? Just racism. Yea, that was my take, too, when I read that. -- Low Self Esteem Support Group will meet Thursday at 7 PM. Please use the back door.
	permalink · 2008-09-16 16:45:36 · Print ·

kc0bbq

join:2001-03-22
Cottage Grove, MN

3 edits

Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations

said by GarbsYea, that was my take, too, when I read that.

Some of the most fun PuGs I've had have included Chinese gold farmers, and they were the old target of xenophobia. The problem was that since the runs were fun despite the language barrier, I ended up on friends lists being whispered in the gibberish that pinyin input equates to on the US client. Not that I would have understood anyway. :P

If it was just "English is not my language" people there are ways to phrase that that aren't blanket statements about entire groups.

permalink · 2008-09-16 16:53:07 · Print ·

Thaler
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said by chaud

:

Blues are blues. Not much more to say there.

Again, spoken like someone without a clue. I've seen umpteen groups go purely by pixel color when picking up PUG elements, and especially when it comes to S1/2 gear vs. PvE blues. Strictly talking from a rogue (and hunter), there are blues out there that are better than the PvP purples that everyone goes ga-ga for. If you need an example, look no further than the trinket I described (Hourglass of the Unraveler), or the Fel Leather 3-piece blue set. While the iLevel is lower, the usefulness in PvE is much greater than several purples in that slot category since the stats are all allocated in *the* way you need them for PvE.

Guh. It just boggles my mind how people think a player w/ a level 70 blue in an item slot automatically is sub-par to someone who AFKed their way to honor gears.

permalink · 2008-09-16 16:59:05 · Print ·

badtrip
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said by chaud

:

Maybe you missed the part where I don't raid at all. I go to random guilds ZA, SSC, or TK with a different gearset when asked, without expecting loot. I enjoy doing something fun once in a while, not having to show up for raids, and having a good time on vent. You must have missed the part where I said my gear is trash, and I play this game for PvP.

Then you are the epitome of a WoW elitest failure.

You say you only play to PvP and your gear is trash yet you bash other folk's gear and refuse to take others with a single blue piece of gear (or my pally) anywhere you go?

You are a troll and a clueless one at that.

Please stay away from Warhammer.

permalink · 2008-09-16 17:03:13 · Print ·

Thaler
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Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations

said by badtrip

:

You say you only play to PvP and your gear is trash yet you bash other folk's gear and refuse to take others with a single blue piece of gear (or my pally) anywhere you go?

Eh, don't sweat it too much. People being carried through content isn't exactly a new concept in MMORPGs. Unfortunately, this motion is getting more and more prevalent as content matures.

Usually they're the one that forms groups (so nobody can kick the scrub, lol), or being carried as a friend by the group/raid leader. Heh, it's pretty funny when the guy in crap gear in a group/raid starts QQing about the new guy having *gasp* a blue.

Those groups, I didn't mind getting booted out of. They always looked like they were set up for epic failure anyways.

permalink · 2008-09-16 17:16:47 · Print ·

chaud
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In some cases, PvP gear is better than blues, but yes, I can pick out if it is better or worse! An amazing skill right?

said by badtrip

said by chaud

Warhammer is trash. My gear is bad because I stopped playing for the most part in S3.

People crying about me being racist need to actually play on the realm to appreciate how awful it really is. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. Gurubashi is now a destroyed realm.

Everyone keeps crying oh so hard about how these groups are destined for failure, yet failure rarely or never occurs. Don't knock it until you have done it.

permalink · 2008-09-16 17:20:48 · Print ·

badtrip
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said by chaud

It takes a ton skill to be able to press a sequence of buttons over and over.

»www.wowarmory.com/character-shee···tajunkie

I press ~,~,~,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,... occasionally f or shift-f

»www.wowarmory.com/character-shee···n=Smruin

I press shift-f (sometimes) then 3,4,4,4,4,4,5,3,4,4,4,4,5,...

»www.wowarmory.com/character-shee···hudupnub

Only play BGs with this toon. I press 3 or 4 and occasionally y and shift-y

»www.wowarmory.com/character-shee···hudupnub

However, despite my obvious mastery of binding keys ans pressing them in order, according to some WoW players, I am only passible as a warlock because my hit rating is under 209 and my spell damage is 900 unbuffed. Further, my tanking skills and healing skills are horrendous as you can see by my respective toon's gear.

permalink · 2008-09-16 12:51:36 · Print ·

ErikVKing Erik the Viking Premium join:2008-06-19 Davenport, IA	Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations Too bad you play Ally, I'd /wave at ya with my alt on Area 52.
	permalink · 2008-09-16 13:28:32 ·

badtrip East Bay Premium join:2004-03-20 Albany, CA ·Unwired Ltd ·Comcast	Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations hehe, I have one ally, the priest. All my other toons are Horde and if someone was to ask Ally or Horde, I'd say Horde without a second's thought. I never really play anymore but on the off chance you see Smruin, Nekruk or Datajunkie on A52 please do say hello.
	permalink · 2008-09-16 13:49:41 ·

badtrip
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said by chaud

:

That is why those players in blues are still in blues and continue to dislike me, while the rest of the realm invites me to runs / raids because I am competent.

permalink · 2008-09-16 13:43:56 · Print ·

Jakiel00

join:2007-12-12
Mckinney, TX

said by chaud

said by Jakiel00

I wouldn't run anything with a person that still has a blue. :P
I don't know what you are "looking forward to". A lot of the items that you will see up to 80 are already there for looking at.

The gear right after 70. That is what I meant. If you have a link to this gear post it in the forums.

permalink · 2008-09-16 14:09:31 · Print ·

drew
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Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations

I'm sure there's plenty to browse on Wowhead and thottbot, however it has to be taken into perspective.

Think of the gear gap between vanilla and BC. HUGE, right? However look at the HP gap between mobs in EPL or Winterspring and the ones in HFP. HUGE!

They've said that it won't be as bad in lich king as it was in BC, however there's still going to be that gap, and it's gotta be taken into perspective with the mobs, encounters and new/tweaked talents, abilities and spells.

permalink · 2008-09-16 14:24:02 ·

Thaler Premium join:2004-02-02 Encino, CA	Heh, I've been saying this for a long while. The need for overgearing is retarded, but meh, it's just to be expected at this point in time.
	permalink · 2008-09-15 18:11:32 ·

Dodge
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People are dicks in general. I know it seems like I have a story for every post, but it seems that everyone's experience is generally the same. So here is another installment of my story:

I don't raid and actually suspended my account for the time being. My wife's account is active so I play around on her priest once in a while. She is in Sunwell and is geared accordingly, #2 guild on the server.

So, I am running around shat, talking to friends I get a whisper to run one of the coilfang heroics. Ok, I am bored so I head over there. On the way I was playing with wardrobe and basically I arrive in her non-existing pvp gear (she hates pvp so gear sucks). All of a sudden I get kicked out of the group. I ask them wtf, without realizing that the toon is in PvP gear (which looking around still outgeared most of that group). I get back a birrage of n00b, who did you blow to get into that guild, l2p, etc, etc, etc. At which point I switch back to her normal gear and start laughing (that obnoxious undead laugh:) ) Until I put all of them on ignore I kept getting invites and applogies:)

permalink · 2008-09-15 18:58:20 · Print ·

DownLow Nope...I Got Nothing Premium join:2001-04-25 Long Island	Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations I guess it comes down to this...play a video game, you get what comes along with it (immaturity, lack of social skills and people that hide behind a computer screen and thus have no repercussions for their actions). -- Cleverly Disguised As A Responsible Adult!
	permalink · 2008-09-15 19:09:26 ·

ChrisG

join:2008-09-16
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Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations

Face it, most of the people that play this game are spineless, normal, wimpy, computer age people. They dont have the balls to tell someone to fuckoff IRL. This is their escape, where they can not be help accountable for their actions. They are going to capitalize on every opportunity to boost their epeens. This is a fact of life, I'm sure we're all (even me) guilty of this. I used to be a serious asshole back in the old world days. I've really come to take a light hearted approach to this game and remember that there is a person behind that toon. I wish my attitude was contagious and more people would at least try to be decent to each other. I'm no angel, I still heckel people but there is a fine line between giving someone a slightly hard time when they goof something up and being completely cruel.

We were all n00bs once.

permalink · 2008-09-16 09:31:00 · Print ·

chaud Serious Business join:2004-07-09 Anderson, SC	They are bad for not armorying you first!
	permalink · 2008-09-15 19:31:38 ·

Omega
Displaced Ohioan
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Cheyenne, WY
clubs:

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I'll play devil's advocate here. Requiring a min gear requirement shows you at the very minimum know how to stay out of fire.

One of the most un-fun things in this game is wiping over and over again in a 5 man instance. They simply don't want to do that. Sure there are people that get screwed over, but I would have no problem shutting out undergeared people if it meant I wouldn't have to sit through an instance for 3 hours.
--
Whats smells like blue?

permalink · 2008-09-15 20:31:26 ·

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Kearnstd Elf Wizard Premium join:2002-01-22 Mullica Hill, NJ	downside to the armory is it allows people to prescan everyone asking to join, you could be extremely skilled but if you dont look good enough on the armory you wont ever get into a group of min/max type people. -- [65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports
	permalink · 2008-09-15 21:58:44 ·

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Shatter

join:2006-07-24
Waterford, MI

Yeah some instances dont need Tier 5+ gear. However some do need a minimum of gear unless you want to spend 3 hours of your night wasted. Ill give an example: ZA. The reason I wont go to ZA anymore I was reminded of last week when I broke my own rule and went cause they needed healing. We went with 3 people / 10 that were in some purples/some blues. However they had very low HP and when we got to Hexlord(I think I havent had coffee yet) they got raped on his shadow bolts...over and over. This is a good example where there is a minimum of gear needed to do an instance. They were fine first 4 bosses, but then their gear plateu'd and was insufficient. I dont do instances anymore with PUG newbs for a good reason, too many wearing crap and too many are stupid

permalink · 2008-09-16 08:15:04 · Print ·

drew
Reformation
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join:2002-07-10
Port Orchard, WA
clubs:

·wavebroadband

I just tranaferred back to my old PVP server, so I don't know if the armory has updated.

Look up Galain on Gorgonnash. 70 Druid.

I am most likely in my boomkin pve set as I was doing dailies all yesterday since I couldn't get a group.

As for the 'take the T6 mage over the T4 mage, yeah I totally understand that' however both groups that caused me to post this thread spent at least 20 minutes LF1M after rejecting me. I highly doubt that waiting those 20 minutes or more was worth trying to find someone marginally better geared.

I guess I will have to make the groups from now on.

I really miss the 'Well I am not sure if it'll work out, but do you want to try a few pulls to see how it goes?' days.
--
Some people are like slinkys. Completely and totally useless, but they bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.
LOLz

permalink · 2008-09-16 09:33:17 · Print ·

ErikVKing Erik the Viking Premium join:2008-06-19 Davenport, IA ·Mediacom	Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations said by drew : I really miss the 'Well I am not sure if it'll work out, but do you want to try a few pulls to see how it goes?' days. Yeah, some of those PuGs ended up being the most fun. I'm levelling a Warrior again and the last few SM runs I did we had not one healer - but, we had 4 Hunters and me, all of us DPSing ;o) That was a blast!
	permalink · 2008-09-16 09:36:57 · Print ·

pp03

join:2002-06-13
Minneapolis, MN

Coming from someone who has been gearing up another character from scratch for fun before wotlk, I'll tell you what to do.

When I first hit 70 I had to use food, potions, and wizard oil to break 1k healing. My gear was trash.

I knew I couldn't heal heroics (Paladin) if there was multi-target damage (especially over agroing the tank direct damage), so that was out of the question.

How was I supposed to gear up? Simple, crafted pieces, and finding a gem of a guild. I found a guild with decent gear that was farming kara and wanted to gear up another healer. So, my gimp 1k healing was backed up by two healers with over 2k. Things like that happen when guilds need more of certain classes.

So here I am two weeks later and I'm over 1.8k healing. My main heal went from hitting (with light) for 1.2k to now 1.6k, which is huge.

Here is where you are either a nice guy or an asshole. I can stay with said guild and keep doing my four hour kara clears once a week and doing gruul and mag once a week or I can skip out on this guild and now I have the gear to be a trash player in a T5 or 6 guild.

Look, raiding is not what it used to be. I see you have said that you don't have the time to raid anymore. Let me tell you how much I raided to go from 1k to 1.8k plus healing.

Get ready for it, 5 hours a week. One hour in gruul/mag, and four hours in kara.

Guess what happens when I upgrade guilds, YOU don't run kara anymore or low tier 25 mans. Maybe you were an old school raider where you still needed to do full clears of MC to get people their pants and TF's on top of blackrock...lol I can't even remember the tier2 zone anymore. As well as getting half pieces in AQ40, it isn't like that anymore.

If I was in a T5 guild it would be ZA and whatever, if I was in T6 it would be BT and maybe one other, and so on. You really don't need to raid for more than 5 hours a week anymore.

Blizzard themselves said they made heroics not worth the rewards this time around. Some of those require equal gear to the rewards just to finish (or at least used to). In WoTLK heroics will be like you have mentioned, slightly harder 5 mans with basically a half tier epic/blue set. Then what you want to do will be viable. But still, you should gear in pvp/raids. It doesn't take massive dedication anymore and MUCH less in wotlk.
--
The History Channel rocks! ... you know it!

permalink · 2008-09-16 09:39:44 · Print ·

ChrisG

join:2008-09-16
Montgomery, AL

Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations

Any idiot can gear up in today's WoW. I wish they would revert back to the way heroics started out. Skilled healers with ~1500+ healing going oom on every single trash pull. Thats what I'm talking about. I want that hard shit. I did the tier 0.5 set completely on 2 characters back in the day, anyone remember how difficult that was? even for tier2 geared people, that stuff was no joke, talk about a serious grind for gear.
Blizzard keeps lowering the standard, and their playerbase grows, its so fucking sad. They need to make heroics HARD. Why even have normals now? I healed heroic Magister's Terrace as a tree with 1k plus healing, no wipes. ONE THOUSAND. WTF? Sure, I was busting my ass, but a lot of people would say thats half the plus healing required, yes trees are different. Thats supposed to be the hardest of hard heroics.
They need to make DIFFICULT 5 man and 10 man content, anyone remember the oldschool scholo and strat places? Where you could 5, 10 or (I think) 15 man. Anyone ever try 5 manning those back in the day? OMG.

permalink · 2008-09-16 09:50:37 · Print ·

Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA

Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations

said by ChrisG

:

Any idiot can gear up in today's WoW.

You honestly have no idea what it is to be a late-game starter/reroll. When the rest of the server is soaked in T5/6, you're *lucky* if you get to run heroics, even in craftable epics. Hell, even Kara guilds are dwindling because most of them have either blown up, or have progressed into T5 and beyond (and aren't looking for "undergeared" players).

The avaliability of the badge vendor doesn't mean a thing when you aren't even given the chance to get badges with your fellow server-mates. PvE content may be nerfed into the ground, but starting up late in the game is a very tough challenge.

said by ChrisG

:

They need to make DIFFICULT 5 man and 10 man content, anyone remember the oldschool scholo and strat places? Where you could 5, 10 or (I think) 15 man. Anyone ever try 5 manning those back in the day? OMG.

Eh, I never got to run those instances pre-Molten Core release, but honestly, those runs were never hard. The difficulty more stemmed from WoW being a new game and there being such a high percentage of players who simply did not know how to play. The more the game settled in and the more class tweaks that came down the line, the easier those runs became.

permalink · 2008-09-16 10:34:49 · Print ·

Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA

said by pp03

:

When I first hit 70 I had to use food, potions, and wizard oil to break 1k healing. My gear was trash.

Again, nobody's saying that he isn't equipped enough for the content. The problem is, with PUG heroics, they armory his gear, see that he's in T4/hero rewards, figure he isn't worth the time/trouble, and take the next T5/6 person in queue. He could be willing to chug umpteen billion pots to bring his healing/DPS/etc. up, but none of that matters. If his purples aren't "up to par" for what the PUG heroics are looking for, they aren't going to take him.

That's why it's bullshit. You don't need T5/6 to clear hero content, and gear doesn't necessarily speak for the player's skill/character at all.

permalink · 2008-09-16 10:25:58 · Print ·

ChrisG

join:2008-09-16
Montgomery, AL

Lets think back to level 60. Remember looking at someone's gear. Nicely equipped with dungeon BoP blues and some purples = hey this person has been around a bit and probably knows their ass from a hole in the ground. Then there was the guy who was wearing like 90% BOE AH and crafted epics and then the one or two random greens. You could smell the nub on them.

Nowdays, BoP epics mean nothing. This latter generation of WoW players are so spoiled. Especially the ones that have been playing only since BC was released. The ones that weren't there for the server first kara boss kills. When Gruul and Mag were completely fucking HARD. The average player skill has dropped and continues to drop. This pve content simply does not force people to think on their feet and play well.

HOW MANY TIMES HAVE THEY NERFED THE BC PVE CONTENT?

I hate Blizzard. They set their standards so low and make shit so god damn simple that even the dumbest of dumb can do it. This is a simple tactic to recruit and retain as many people as possible. This is a strategy used when the military gets desperate for people, they lower the standard. Blizzard isn't desperate, just greedy.

permalink · 2008-09-16 10:05:49 · Print ·

pp03

join:2002-06-13
Minneapolis, MN

Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations

said by ChrisG

:

Lets think back to level 60. Remember looking at someone's gear. Nicely equipped with dungeon BoP blues and some purples = hey this person has been around a bit and probably knows their ass from a hole in the ground. Then there was the guy who was wearing like 90% BOE AH and crafted epics and then the one or two random greens. You could smell the nub on them.

Nowdays, BoP epics mean nothing. This latter generation of WoW players are so spoiled. Especially the ones that have been playing only since BC was released. The ones that weren't there for the server first kara boss kills. When Gruul and Mag were completely fucking HARD. The average player skill has dropped and continues to drop. This pve content simply does not force people to think on their feet and play well.

HOW MANY TIMES HAVE THEY NERFED THE BC PVE CONTENT?

I hate Blizzard. They set their standards so low and make shit so god damn simple that even the dumbest of dumb can do it. This is a simple tactic to recruit and retain as many people as possible. This is a strategy used when the military gets desperate for people, they lower the standard. Blizzard isn't desperate, just greedy.

lol, wow.

Look, the game evolves, shit happens. Nothing has or ever will be hard in this game. I've hit on this in another post, but it just isn't. For you to say anything pre-BC was hard is a joke, to say mag and gru used to be hard is a joke. Things have gone from easy to easier and that is it.

How complicated was nef? Clear your side with quick dps, have a cloak on, avoid class calls, face him away from the group. How hard was rag? DPS banadge yourself when possible, don't stand close together, spam the tank.

How was anything ever hard, you are making it like you are some kind of hard core old school player in this game. Difficulty in this game only arises in getting 24 other people to do their easy task.

What you are talking about, bop blues never meant anything. I remember gear runs in scholo, 10 people, fast clear. NOTHING WAS OR WILL EVER BE HARD IN WOW. EVER. QUIT PRETENDING YOU ARE LEET BECAUSE THIS IS AN EASY GAME. So what if blizzard makes it casual friendly, the only difficulty change from 10 mans to 25 mans will be how many healers are assigned to the tank and how many people have to move out of the fire. THAT IS IT.
--
The History Channel rocks! ... you know it!

permalink · 2008-09-16 10:33:18 · Print ·

Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA

Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations

said by pp03

:

NOTHING WAS OR WILL EVER BE HARD IN WOW. EVER. QUIT PRETENDING YOU ARE LEET BECAUSE THIS IS AN EASY GAME.

Staying out of the fire is srs business.

said by pp03

:

So what if blizzard makes it casual friendly, the only difficulty change from 10 mans to 25 mans will be how many healers are assigned to the tank and how many people have to move out of the fire.

Well, they could make the fire different colors.

permalink · 2008-09-16 10:38:35 · Print ·

Mashiki Balking The Enemy's Plans join:2002-02-04 Woodstock, ON ·Bright House ·Rogers Hi-Speed	Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations said by Thaler : Staying out of the fire is srs business. GET IN THE FIRE! IN! You're going to wipe us!
	permalink · 2008-09-16 14:34:06 ·

Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA

said by ChrisG

:

Nowdays, BoP epics mean nothing. This latter generation of WoW players are so spoiled. Especially the ones that have been playing only since BC was released. The ones that weren't there for the server first kara boss kills. When Gruul and Mag were completely fucking HARD.

Back in my days, we used to clear to Gruul using a grey shovel!

Uphill. Both ways.

In the snow.

Yeeg, it's a flipping game. You know as well as I do, the only reason a lot of the previous content was "hard" was because classes/talents/skills/encounters were borked at the time. Sure, having little avaliability of gear affects the fights (can't really well overgear for server firsts, can you?), but when the bosses are buggy, or your TBC talents don't work, it's especially hard.

permalink · 2008-09-16 10:43:37 · Print ·

ChrisG

join:2008-09-16
Montgomery, AL

Hey look another person with keyboard courage to tell someone on a forum how they really feel.

---> PP03

I dont appreciate personal attacks and I'm not here to be a forum troll.

As far as those old dungeons go, I'm talking about the 5 man scholos etc back in the day. (Yes, the raid versions of these dungeons were easier.) I'm referring to the simple challenge of doing it as a 5 man.
Back when each and every epic item cost a fortune or was simple unavailable to the vast majority. When you would oooo and ahhhh at one piece of somebody's tier1.
Sure I was a noob back then and of course it seemed hard.

Okay, so I'm saying Gruul and Mag used to be hard. So no guilds on most servers were able to down Gruul until they nerfed him the first time. And you're saying thats a joke, okay!

And AquaBlaze:

Oh, and I rerolled again about 3 months ago as a druid tank on a high pop pvp server. It didn't take long (maybe 4 weeks @ 70?) to gear up enough to tank BT without stepping foot in SSC TK or MHJ. So dont tell me how hard it is to gear a toon up nowdays on a server ridden with tier6.

permalink · 2008-09-16 11:01:44 · Print ·

Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA

Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations

said by ChrisG

:

Oh, and I rerolled again about 3 months ago as a druid tank on a high pop pvp server. It didn't take long (maybe 4 weeks @ 70?) to gear up enough to tank BT without stepping foot in SSC TK or MHJ. So dont tell me how hard it is to gear a toon up nowdays on a server ridden with tier6.

So, you knew *nobody* on that server, and had nobody to reference yourself to ride coattails on the way up for gear once hitting 70? I highly doubt it.

Yes, rerolling 70 and gearing up is easy as all hell if you know people, and have already plotted your course for gear since day one. It also helps too if you're playing a class/role that can operate pretty heavily on the S1/2 honor drops of the time.

Either that, or your server has some of the nicest people in the planet on it. On my server, you can't run PUG heros or Karas w/o a full set of T5 and above epics. Please tell me how you merge into that with *just* the avaliability of dungeon blues and a few craftable epics.

permalink · 2008-09-16 11:07:20 · Print ·

Jakiel00

join:2007-12-12
Mckinney, TX

Its been too long since I have run a Heroic is all blues, along with the rest of the grp being in Blues. Prolly when we ran SV, it would have been with a Druid tank, Holy pally, and some assorted DPS. Pain in the ass though and takes a while.

My point before was depends on the grp makeup. If I am running a Heroic with guildies that I know are in T5/T6 guild for farming badges, I don't have a problem running with a 5th guy that is undergeared. If I am in a grp and lets say starting out the game for the first time (If it was my first 70), then it really would be a painstaking process since the whole grp was in blues.

permalink · 2008-09-16 11:01:49 · Print ·

Shatter

join:2006-07-24
Waterford, MI

Alot of this comes down to people have done these places so many times they want it to be fast and painless as possible. I pretty much refuse to go to ZA anymore, I did Kara every week for 4 weeks a few months ago only because of badges. My guild has cancelled ZA runs last 2 weeks cause no one wants to go other then usually 5 people on alts and I'd rather stab myself in the eye with a spoon then be a part of that group.

permalink · 2008-09-16 11:18:48 ·

drew
Reformation
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Port Orchard, WA
clubs:

·wavebroadband

I used to be able to ride around on coat-tails as I was in the biggest and best guild on the server pre-BC. Then BC happened, things splintered and never quite regained the prestige. Since then, it's been a miss-match of guilds.

Too bad I suck at PVP.
--
Some people are like slinkys. Completely and totally useless, but they bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.
LOLz

permalink · 2008-09-16 11:57:01 ·

klambert
Seti Rocks
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join:2000-07-20
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clubs:

Remember also that some people putting PUGs together have no clue about classes other than their own. I actually volunteered to go on a Gruul's PUG with my mage a while back and the guy said I wasn't geared well enough, since I did not have over 1100 + spell damage (at that time).

Of course, at that time, I had killed Gruul with that toon a couple of times (God knows how many times I had axed him with my tank and shadow priest), had killed Mags multiple times and had killed Rage once [it was an alt I was working up and for some crazy reason I was trying to finish my T4 set with Gruuls).

He clearly had no clue about what was needed . . .

permalink · 2008-09-16 12:13:14 · Print ·

Kevlar
Kevlar

join:2008-02-19
Spartanburg, SC

Ahh....this thread makes me so glad im not gonna be a part of the wotlk (I hope) as I (hope) to quit in Jan when my next rebill comes around.

This snobbish asshat attitude that people like chaud and many others exhibit is just annoying. Its a game. Gear = time spent trying to gear up. Period. If you are just now starting you get ostracized because you havent lived the game from day 1 or (gasp) are gearing up an alt.

Actually starting to look forward to ending my wow time now. Its odd. been playing since around 1.0 release and has usually been fun. Lately its the people that make me wanna move on.

permalink · 2008-09-16 12:47:02 · Print ·

ChrisG join:2008-09-16 Montgomery, AL	Why are people so angry and frustrated and so ready to jump down someone's throat about a GAME? Sunlight does wonders, there are also these things called "Gymnasiums" Oh, and do vaginas gross you guys out?
	permalink · 2008-09-16 16:43:14 ·

drew
Reformation
Premium
join:2002-07-10
Port Orchard, WA
clubs:

·wavebroadband

Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations

said by ChrisG

:

Why are people so angry and frustrated and so ready to jump down someone's throat about a GAME?

Sunlight does wonders, there are also these things called "Gymnasiums" Oh, and do vaginas gross you guys out?

A+ on the trying to call out a mis-stereotype (as the typical MMOG demographic has been wildly changed with the advent of casual-friendly Wow) you're a part of.

In other news, I'm downloading the PTR installer now. Should be ready by the time I get home from work.

permalink · 2008-09-16 16:45:32 · Print ·

Dodge Premium join:2002-11-27 clubs:	I would just like to congratulate everyone participating in the last 3 pages of this thread for turning BBR into official WoW forums. Now I know Aquablaze is probably bored at work as per his other posts in other threads and is just itching for an argument to brighten his day , but what about the rest of you?
	permalink · 2008-09-16 17:33:38 ·

See 15 replies to this post

WoWjunky Premium join:2008-08-11	Rofl, you mean the brazilians have the internet? Good for them! I thought they were all to busy being sweaty and greasy for computer games. But I guess I spend most of my time being fat and ugly and lonely but still manage to play a bit of WoW from time to time. Too bad they ruined your server. Why not just report spam everytime you see some language other than english?
	permalink · 2008-09-16 18:21:23 ·

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