dslreports logo
site
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc

spacer




how-to block ads


Search Topic:
uniqs
3908
share rss forum feed


Jeremy341
Bye
Premium
join:2000-01-06
localhost

Comcast isn't getting rid of the transparent proxy

If you read your Subscriber Agreement (which can be found at »www.comcast.net/TermsofService/s ··· gree.asp) you will see that in Section 5, Comcast basically says that they are going to monitor where you go on the Internet so that they can send you SPAM. The real kicker is where it says that this type of monitoring "is necessary to provide the Service." IT IS??? Wow. It was never necessary for MediaOne. Comcast must use some special equipment in their network that REQUIRES them to monitor us and then SPAM us based on what sites we went to. I'm sure glad WOW doesn't use this type of equipment, since they're my next ISP.

sago5

join:2001-12-19

Just thought of something.

If one does not install the software, and simply leaves everything the way it is one does not even know they are under a new subscriber agreement. If you simply happen to turn off your computer one day and the next you are up on the new network and don't even know about it. IP address? Why I have been living at this address for years! And no I am not in the UP!

Has anyone heard of a contract where all you have to do is send somebody an agreement in the mail and all of a sudden they are bound by it.

How does anyone prove that the customer accepted the terms of service or that they ever received a transition kit or any emails or anything. E-mail address? oh, yeah, that e-mail. I can never figure out how that works. I just don't know that much about computers.

A shutdown and reboot does not consitute a signature.

An e-mail notification does not consitute a signature. Junk mail does not constitute a signature.

Unless someone went out and installed the software, it would be difficult to prove that any of the transition customers actually agreed to terms of service. What software? What agreement? What are you talking about? Comcast? It's been Comcast for 6 months now hasn't it? New network? Huh? Where do I find that on my start menu?

There has got to be some kind of law about collecting such data from people who have not signed an agreement allowing it.
[text was edited by author 2002-01-01 02:57:03]


Jeremy341
Bye
Premium
join:2000-01-06
localhost
reply to Jeremy341
Being on their network automatically means you accept the agreement. If you ever read the EULAs on software you install, it usually says something like "If you do not agree with this, return this software to the place of purchase for a full refund". So if you don't like Comcast's terms, dump them. Money speaks louder than words.


mattman4

join:1999-10-25
reply to Jeremy341
Thanks for pointing this out. Even though it finally became available to me (comcast cable modem), after years of lying, after reading that i think ill stick with my dsl


Jeremy341
Bye
Premium
join:2000-01-06
localhost
Thank jjoshua. He's the one that brought it to my attention in another thread. I just felt like this is an important issue and wanted to make more people aware of it.

sago5

join:2001-12-19
reply to Jeremy341
it's 5b. "IT IS?" I guess that depends on the Service offered.
In other words, it sounds like --
We can use the service just so long as we allow them to collect information about where we surf, amongst other things.

5c. In other words, they can disclose our personal information to third parties amongst other reasons, for ordinary business purposes.

That sucks.

Thanks for pointing that out. It does make a difference.



Jeremy341
Bye
Premium
join:2000-01-06
localhost
reply to Jeremy341
The part of this that makes me madder than anything is that all of the problems we are currently have reaching web sites is due to this monitoring system. I really hope that a lot of people leave Comcast and show them that we will not put up with this crap.

System
Will using a separate proxy service such as anonymizer prevent them from monitoring and spamming us? It should. Anybody recommend a FAST and inexpensive proxy service?

theoldmoose

join:2001-12-30
Ann Arbor, MI
reply to sago5
Any mail sent to you by first class is considered a legal notice. Somewhere in that agreement is a notice that says that if you continue to use the service after January 1, 2002, then you agree to the new terms of service. Since you get a chance to read and review all the new terms of service before that day, you have the option of keeping the service (and accepting the new terms) or dropping the service. This has been held as a legal contract mechanism by any number of courts.

A similar thing occurs with credit cards. If the company wants to jack up your interest rate, or put some new draconian late fees or other penalties on your account, they simply send you a new agreement via first class mail, and then if you make a new charge on your card after the effective date, you are accepting the new terms. If you cut up your card, and inform them that you will be just making payments on the account until it is paid off, and then closed, then they will honor the original interest rates and other terms.

You may not like what ComCast has pulled, but so far, as far as the new terms of service notification and implied agreement (due to continued use after the effective date) goes, they are very much in legal territory.

stevepierce6

join:2001-12-18
Ypsilanti, MI
You are correct on most points, but the courts have also said that is the responsibility of the company to prove that the customer has been notified. If Comcast cannot prove that sufficient notice was given, they cannot use the "agreement by use" clause. I and many others here in Michigan have not received any notice.

- Steve


NJ User

@verona01.nj.comcast.
reply to Jeremy341
There is a difference between proxying and monitoring. You can monitor without a proxy and you can proxy without monitoring. Does the agreement say anything about proxying? I don't think so...

I just want the damn proxy off. If anything is sensitive enough it's probably https (which is not proxied at the moment) and is nearly impossible to monitor.

A disgruntled NJ user.

watson2037

join:2000-09-03
Sarasota, FL
I cant even get the Terms of Service site, i get a 500 internal server error, errr....I hate the feeling of knowing im getting screwed, but their is no other alternative. Damn you Comcast.
--
Comcast@home 3000/128


Anon2002

@taylor01.mi.comcast.
reply to Jeremy341
Where does it say that thay are going to start selling your name to spam vendors in the TOS?

Some of you are spazzes.

theoldmoose

join:2001-12-30
Ann Arbor, MI
reply to stevepierce6
The courts have long held that in normal consumer matters, that first class mail is proof of notification. I know, it sounds weird, and I had to check it out with some attorney friends before I could accept that premise. The argument was that if companies had to resort to registered mail in all official communications with a large customer base, that it would be a hardship.

I suppose, but I consider the whole thing slanted in the company's favor.

stevepierce6

join:2001-12-18
Ypsilanti, MI
You are absolutely right, first class mail is an acceptable means of notification. But only if I acknowledge that I have received said notification. I did not receive notification and Comcast has admitted already in the press that not everyone has received the CD and updated ToS. Therefore, if Comcast cannot prove that you received notice, then the 'acceptance by use' clause may not be enforceable.

- Steve

sago5

join:2001-12-19
reply to Jeremy341
Certainly most people are aware of the switch. Certainly most people got the software. Certainly most if not all people will continue to pay thier bills.

I guess what I am trying to get at here is whether there is some law preventing an ISP from collecting your personal information and selling it for money. It seems like a very basic violation of privacy.

Like they should be required to give you a choice. And that choice should be something other than switching the service.

To collect information to fight terrorism is one thing. To collect information to make sure that unauthorized users are not stealing cable service from folks who are legitimately paying for it is one thing. There are many legitimate uses for some sort of ability to monitor the network and the logs to identify potential problems and troubleshoot. These are the types of things that improve networks and help them run smoother. To collect information to fight child pornography and warez and things like that also makes sense. There are specific rules about this type of thing, and in the end the responsibility does sort of lie on the ISP, especially a large ISP, to make sure that things are kept in good order. It makes sense to do that. If you are not breaking these laws, you have nothing to worry about.

But to gather your data and to sell it for money? Without even so much as a passing thought?

Is this really what is happening? Or are these just rumours?

Do we have any confirmation that this is what is actually going on? Anyone?

It would seem that there needs to be some kind of agreement that this information -- that you would have a choice in the matter. Most websites that you have to register to (Sun Microsystems, for instance) have a choice if you want to recieve emails or not, if you would like to be contacted by their business partners, etc...

It sounds like the main reason for this monitoring -- if this is true, and this is what is really happenning -- is to make the cable company more money. Selling stats for money, even if the gathering of the data has significant detrimental effects on the quality of the service offerred to the customers.

There is the thing that if you only take stats from people who agree to it, it doesn't reflect an accurate poll -- but you could achieve similar statistical accuracy by simply selecting random IP addresses to monitor from time to time.

This is gathering data from EVERYONE ALL THE TIME. Seems like a little much.

If it is adveresly affecting the quality of service while making Comcast lots of money there has got to be some kind of pressure that can be placed on such business practices. I am not a legal expert, but that just doesn't seem right.


Ngultrum
Premium
join:2001-12-26
Ann Arbor, MI
reply to Jeremy341
I have my gripes with Comcast, but I don't think this dog will hunt. If you read www.comcast.net/privacy you will find the following and I have no reason to think that they will not honor what is basically boilerplate privacy policy now. But it does appear that you have "opt out" as they say.

Comcast will not send promotional email messages to you if you ask us not to do so. We do send promotional messages to our customers from time to time. However, we will stop sending you such messages if you advise us that you no longer wish to receive them.