Barry
join:2008-11-04
Oakville, ON
 ·Cogeco Cable
| Bell sucks! I know that goes unsaid, but I wanted to get this rant out of my system.
I was looking forward to switching from Hogeco to TekSavvy and was disappointed when I synced at 1280/786. After trying some line tests with no success, I requested to be switched to a remote. Since there was no remote, Bell put me on interleaved and now I sync at 1184/384.
It baffles me how there is no remote in my area as the CO is 5km away. I guess 2500 houses isn't enough to justify the expense. | |
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 | Barry
join:2008-11-04
Oakville, ON
·Cogeco Cable
| Re: Bell sucks! That would explain it because I could of sworn there was a remote 3000 feet away from my house. It's a brick shed with a Bell logo and I often see a truck working on it.
You can even see a truck by it on Google Maps.
»maps.google.ca/?ie=UTF8&ll=43.48···t=h&z=20 | |
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Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC | Re: Bell sucks! That may not be a DSL remote. And 3000 feet as the bird flies is a lot longer as the wire goes. | |
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| | | Barry
join:2008-11-04
Oakville, ON | Re: Bell sucks! This is true, but it's definitely shorter than 4.5km. | |
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| Barry
join:2008-11-04
Oakville, ON | Re: Bell sucks! That is even worse. I guess I'll have to factor in the distance from the CO when I move.
What speeds do you sync at now? | |
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nanook
Premium,MVM
join:2007-12-02
 ·Bell Sympatico
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| Re: Bell sucks! said by Barry  :What speeds do you sync at now? 4Mb/s reliably. After a lot of internal rewiring, adding a POTS splitter, etc. I am now on the borderline for 5Mb/s. But I am concerned that may introduce reliability (transmission errors) problems.
Perhaps you can post your line stats from your DSL modem as well as the make/model of modem. Like me you may be able to make substantial improvements from within. | |
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| | | Barry
join:2008-11-04
Oakville, ON | I know the wiring could be improved, but I'm hesitant (and highly tempted at the same time) to shell out another $100 for a technician to come and do the job. | |
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nanook
Premium,MVM
join:2007-12-02
·Bell Sympatico
·TekSavvy Solutions..
1 edit | Re: Bell sucks! With that 63dB attenuation you are at least 5km from the CO. Your ST516 modem is a good choice for marginal lines.
Your best bet at this point is to review your internal wiring. If you have any experience with wiring this will not be a difficult job. There are lots of people here who can help.
To start I would suggest that you temporarily connect only your DSL modem at the demarc (with no filters), i.e. disconnect the rest of the internal phone wiring and look at your line stats again. If there is an improvement then you can decide if it is worth the effort to fix the problem(s). | |
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| | | | | Barry
join:2008-11-04
Oakville, ON
·Cogeco Cable
| Re: Bell sucks! I tried at the demarc with all phone devices unplugged and the sync stats where the same, but the attenuation and snrm improved. Thing is, to get the jack I was using to work I did a shitty job wiring it. Since I didn't have a punch down tool, I avoided the 66 block completely. | |
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nanook
Premium,MVM
join:2007-12-02
·Bell Sympatico
·TekSavvy Solutions..
2 edits | Re: Bell sucks! The 66 block is effectively your demarc. I have an almost identical situation. My suggestion would be to see if you can move the wiring to the demarc as far from the electric panel as possible. Also keep the phone wiring as far as possible from house wiring and try to run the two perpendicular if possible. I even considered running BellERs incoming through a different opening a couple of feet away from all the electrics.
If that makes an improvement, consider installing a POTS Splitter. Mine fits nicely in a standard metal duplex electrical box. I have that box grounded to the electrical box.
Anyway, it would be interesting to see what your new line stats are.
Added:said by Barry :the sync stats where the same, but the attenuation and snrm improved To clarify, your synch rate (profile) is set by BellER. You cannot change it yourself. If you can improve attenuation and SNR enough you may be able to get TekSavvy to ask BellER to put you on a faster profile. | |
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| | | | | | | Barry
join:2008-11-04
Oakville, ON | Re: Bell sucks! Ok, I'm going to try that and will post back when I'm done. Hopefully nobody calls because I don't want to get shocked. | |
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| | | | | | | Barry
join:2008-11-04
Oakville, ON
·Cogeco Cable
| In order to move it as far away as possible from my electrical box, I had to disconnect the wires I had coupled for my voice lines. | |
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| | | | | | | | mr_hexen
join:2007-08-02
Brampton, ON | Re: Bell sucks! that looks a little better.
you should be able to get a faster upstream with that for sure.. and a little downstream.
maybe 1800kbps down and 512kbps up. | |
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| | | | | | | | | Barry
join:2008-11-04
Oakville, ON | Re: Bell sucks! 1800 sounds a bit better. I was getting 768 up before they switched me to interleaved. | |
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| | | | | | | | | Barry
join:2008-11-04
Oakville, ON
·Cogeco Cable
3 edits | Re: Bell sucks! I will consider that.
Where can I buy a POTS splitter and would it be possible to do this without having to buy a punch down tool?
I would prefer not having to buy one as it would save me money and all I would have to buy is another wall plate, cat3, cat5 and a splitter. If I have to, I have to.
Edit: Would it be worth the price difference? I'm pretty sure I could avoid buying a punch down tool with these and all I would need is cat5. This would act as a master filter as well, correct?
»www.wilcominc.com/Item.cfm?ProdID=35
»www.wilcominc.com/Item.cfm?ProdID=100
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| | | | | | | | | DabberDan
join:2004-11-15
Gatineau, ON
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| said by Barry :Where can I buy a POTS splitter and would it be possible to do this without having to buy a punch down tool? I got one with the Cat5E plugs I bought at Rona, small plastic thing, works wonders. | |
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| | | | | | | | | mr_hexen
join:2007-08-02
Brampton, ON
| Re: Bell sucks! said by DabberDan :said by Barry :Where can I buy a POTS splitter and would it be possible to do this without having to buy a punch down tool? I got one with the Cat5E plugs I bought at Rona, small plastic thing, works wonders. ditto. I got a 5pack of keystones for RJ-45 and the punch down tool was included. | |
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| | | | | | | | | DabberDan
join:2004-11-15
Gatineau, ON
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| Re: Bell sucks! said by mr_hexen :said by DabberDan :said by Barry :Where can I buy a POTS splitter and would it be possible to do this without having to buy a punch down tool? I got one with the Cat5E plugs I bought at Rona, small plastic thing, works wonders. ditto. I got a 5pack of keystones for RJ-45 and the punch down tool was included. I did buy some of my keystones @ Nedco, but those didn't include the punch down tool. They were slightly cheaper, probably due to not having the tool. | |
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| | | | | | | | | mr_hexen
join:2007-08-02
Brampton, ON
| Re: Bell sucks! said by DabberDan :I did buy some of my keystones @ Nedco, but those didn't include the punch down tool. They were slightly cheaper, probably due to not having the tool. Lowes to the rescue  OnQ i think they were called. | |
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Copper
@bell.ca | This picture of a demarc jack and 66 terminal is completely wired incorrectly. Also 66 style terminals are usually taken out and replaced with a screw type terminal using a Green Robertson. Just get rid of the 66 altogether. | |
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| | | | | | | Barry
join:2008-11-04
Oakville, ON
·Cogeco Cable
| Re: Bell sucks! said by Copper :
This picture of a demarc jack and 66 terminal is completely wired incorrectly. Also 66 style terminals are usually taken out and replaced with a screw type terminal using a Green Robertson. Just get rid of the 66 altogether.
I was already bypassing the 66, but didn't have a camera to show an updated photo. Since I got a POTS splitter, I avoid the demarc jack as well.
What should I do now that I know there is a remote really close by, but Bell will not put me on it? Should I just keep asking for a line transfer until they cave?
It's really frustrating being on a 1mb profile when I could be getting a lot faster. | |
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nanook
Premium,MVM
join:2007-12-02
·Bell Sympatico
·TekSavvy Solutions..
1 edit | Re: Bell sucks! said by Barry :What should I do now that I know there is a remote really close by, but Bell will not put me on it? Should I just keep asking for a line transfer until they cave? Are you currently with TekSavvy or directly with BellER? I assume it is the former. You have one option but it could prove expensive and may not work in the end. You could switch to BellER, perhaps on the condition that they put you on a remote. Note that they may not accept that condition or if they do they may not put you on a remote, etc. Once at BellER, presumably now on a remote, you could switch back to TekSavvy, hoping that BellER does not then pull you off that remote. This is risky business. It will cost you in cancellation and transfer fees, etc., it may cause disruptions to your DSL service and administrative hassles for you. And in the end it may not result in any improvement.
Alternatively, (2) keep bugging TekSavvy to bug BellER, (3) look at other types of service like wireless, with their speed, bandwidth and cost limitations, (4) consider going back to cable or (5) learn to live with 1Mb/s.
Unfortunately none of these options are particularly attractive. | |
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| | | | daboom
join:2001-12-16
Oshawa, ON
 ·Primus Talkbroadband
| Ouch the best thing for you would be to get those stats from the actual demarc, this will help you determine if the inside wires are in need of real attn or not. Basically connect the modem at the demarc and unhook the entire house while you get the stats. If you got a new nid ie nice gray box outside then doing this would be as simple as pluggin in a phone line.
--
Come join us on EFNET irc.dks.ca #teksavvy for live chat
Java Chat back online @ »teksavvy.kicks-ass.net | |
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| | | | rosenqui
Premium
join:2004-05-28
Kanata, ON
| 
Demarcation box |
said by Barry :I know the wiring could be improved, but I'm hesitant (and highly tempted at the same time) to shell out another $100 for a technician to come and do the job. If you have easy access to the demarcation point, try plugging the DSL modem in there using a good quality phone line and see if your stats improve. My demarc looks something like the one shown above.
You unplug the appropriate plug on the right-hand side (normally you would never open the left-hand side where the green blocks are in this picture), which disconnects the feed into the house. Then plug in the DSL modem and you've removed your house wiring from the equation. | |
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| | rosenqui
Premium
join:2004-05-28
Kanata, ON
| Make absolutely certain that your inside wiring isn't partly to blame. My POTS line gets split into separate voice/DSL lines at my demarc box since I have extra pairs coming into the house, so I've never had any issues. My parents however signed up for DSL a few years ago and they were getting terrible speeds.
At first I thought it was their distance from the CO that was to blame, but we went around and disconnected every phone in the house since not all of them had DSL filters. My dad put the ones he was given on the oldest/cheapest phones figuring those were the ones most likely to cause interference. With everything but the DSL modem disconnected from the line his speed jumped to near the maximum - about a 4-5x improvement!
We eventually traced the problem to an older Nortel cordless phone, but to ensure that there wouldn't be a problem in the future we used a stock DSL filter to split the line where it entered the house, then kept the voice portion of the line isolated from the DSL portion. The DSL modem is the only thing on the DSL side of the splitter. | |
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Barry
join:2008-11-04
Oakville, ON | My demarc is tiny compared to that. I just took off the cover and found some spider eggs and that I would have to wire it myself because there's no plug. It would also be a huge pain in the ass because I don't have a laptop. | |
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| corkyy
join:2008-06-01
Laval, QC | Re: Bell sucks! But wait... The metal box on the right side... Is it the Electrical box?
It could generate a lot of noise on the phone line.
Also you said the stats (snr, att) are better at the demarc, could you post it? | |
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| | Barry
join:2008-11-04
Oakville, ON | Re: Bell sucks! Yes it is an electrical box and I deleted the pics because I was frustrated and had given up. I'll move my computer again and run another test in a couple minutes. | |
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| | Barry
join:2008-11-04
Oakville, ON | I didn't actually hook it to the demarc outside, but where it comes in from the inside. Basically 3 feet away. | |
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Bellus_1
@cia.com
| There are currently over 5000 DSL nodes in the Bell Ontario and QC networks. Some of them, remote and CO-based, are at capacity. To my knowledge, wholesale clients are on remotes, although the ratio of remote-to-CO in the same speed grade (5Mbps wholesale roughly equivalent in tier to their 7Mbps service) may not be equal, it probably isn't too far off. What skews things is that ALL 8Mbps+ customers are by definition on ADSL2+ equipment, most of which is remotes, so a disproportionate portion of Bell customer relative to total DSL subscribers are on remotes. | |
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Barry
join:2008-11-04
Oakville, ON
·Cogeco Cable
2 edits | I just got a Wilcom PS-36 POTS splitter and reconfigured my setup. Before I was using an 25 foot RJ11 extension and now the modem is hooked right at the demarc and using a 25ft CAT5e to my network instead.
I'm happy with the improvement and I am going to call in and request another line transfer.
Before and after screens included. | |
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tommyv2
join:2007-06-03
London, ON
| Bell doesn't care much about the stats as much as the error rates on the line. Ask me how I know!
My stats are a little worse than yours (61/31, 10.5/8) but I'm on 3meg interleave. I've tried a few times to get a higher profile (well, just fastpath 3 meg). I've installed a POTS splitter and cleaned up my lines in the house. My SNRs before were 6.5/6! POTS splitter helps a lot. I have the Comtest NID-02.
Also depends on how your modem reports it all. Newer 516 firmware shows a higher SNRs. It even takes longer to sync, which suggests a more stable connection. I've tried a million firmware versions and have decided on the newest of 7.4.4.7 or whatever the newest one is. It shows the highest SNRs and keeps them that way. I have zero sync issues with a marginal line. You can't use DMT much with this firmware but so be it. My reported error rates are still fairly high, so my hopes of a faster connection are over.
At least I tried, though, and I'm happy. It's fast enough, stable, and it's not Bell or Rogers that I give my (all) money to. | |
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| Barry
join:2008-11-04
Oakville, ON | Re: Bell sucks! I flashed to 7.4.4.7 and it doesn't have an option to chooice VPI/VPC. I tried editing the user.ini, but I can't write anything.
Can someone please help end the frustration? | |
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tommyv2
join:2007-06-03
London, ON | If that's the case, flash it to 7.4.3.2 (previous version I believe) set it up, then upgrade to the newest. As long as you're in the same 7.x.x.x class, it will keep your settings. That's the case for me. I upgraded to it and it works great. | |
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snorlax14
join:2007-11-20
Thornhill, ON
| I've been looking for another green block (66 block?) for ages. Anyone know where I can buy one? | |
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nanook
Premium,MVM
join:2007-12-02
·Bell Sympatico
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| Re: Bell sucks! said by snorlax14 :I've been looking for another green block (66 block?) for ages. Anyone know where I can buy one? I do not think they are made any more. Try an electronic parts surplus store or consider using something like a standard electric terminal block. | |
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| shepd
join:2004-01-17
Kitchener, ON
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| If you are really hung up on going with punchdown blocks (they are nice) the telco standard in Canada is now BIX. You can buy BIX blocks from any competent electrical retailer, and I believe at one point Sayal electronics had some, but they're probably gone now. The terminal blocks will run you about $20, a two strip cage about $20 as well. An RJ-12 strip will run you as much as $80.
You will need a BIX punchdown tool, these are usually about $50. The "official" ones are nicer than the bits you can fit in some 110 tools, since the knife works properly. Most 110 tools aren't designed to have a knife that actually works like scissors since 110 doesn't cut that way.
If, for some reason, Bell or another tech needs to work on your wiring, you can be sure they will have a BIX tool. If they don't, DON'T LET THEM TOUCH *ANYTHING*, as they are morons. 
Or you can go with 110. 110 is popular for LAN wiring, but is fine for phone as well, although it's not as robust or as nice to work with as BIX, IMHO (although you can get it in Gbit and higher ratings, unlike BIX). You should be able to find a short 110 patch "panel" for as little as $30. You can easily plug RJ-12 plugs into the RJ-45 jacks, although you'll have to understand the wiring scheme (blue middle pair, orange outer pair, solid green and striped brown far outer pair). You can get a 110 punchdown tool for as little as $2 if you just want those little crappy plastic tools. Or you can spend as much as $80 on something nice, like a Greenlee tool with low and high impact modes.
Of course, unlike BIX most (not all) 110 stuff isn't designed to screw onto a wood board... It's rackmount. You'll need to jury rig something to make it work.
HTH! | |
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Barry
join:2008-11-04
Oakville, ON
·Cogeco Cable
2 edits | Bell closed my ticket and said my line is only capable of 1mb. This is disappointing because when I was on fastpath the max I would sync at is 1568/800 and since I've been put on interleaved it's 1184/384. The least they could have done is bumped it up to the former.
The CSR asked me if I see any Bell trucks in the area, which I do, and am certain there is a remote down the road. I asked if it were possible that it was Sympatico only and he told me they aren't supposed to be and it is most likely full. Arghh!
I'll try again in a couple weeks.
Edit: Tried to get information out of Bell.
You: Is there a remote?
You: Because I'm currently using TekSavvy and I sync at 1mb, so if I switched to Bell I don't want to pay double for 1mb...
Jackson (SCI-274220): Barry, your synch rate is 3.6mbps so you can get very good speed.
Edit: I knew it was a remote! »Re: Poor Download - Great Upload - Ultra | |
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| | Barry
join:2008-11-04
Oakville, ON
·Cogeco Cable
| Re: Bell sucks! That's what I put a request for, but no dice. | |
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| mr_hexen
join:2007-08-02
Brampton, ON | im surprised a Bell internet tech or CSR was able to pull up your sync rate with teksavvy.
not sure how he figures 3.6mbps though.....
next time you see a bell truck, pull over and talk to the guy. | |
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Bellus_1
@cia.com
| Re: Bell sucks! The chat rep was probably looking in the new qualification tool and speed estimator that outputs a more precise number than the old one. He likely didn't query your actual current attainable sync, as it would show something similar to DMT tool's result. | |
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AkFubar
Resistance is Futile
join:2005-02-28
Toronto Can. | Perhaps if the OP posts in the BellER direct forum one of the good folks there may be able to help.
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"No matter where you go, there you are." - Buckaroo Banzai | |
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| Barry
join:2008-11-04
Oakville, ON
·Cogeco Cable
| Re: Bell sucks! said by AkFubar :Perhaps if the OP posts in the BellER direct forum one of the good folks there may be able to help. I might just give that a shot.
Nanook: Yes I am with TekSavvy and I agree those options don't look so attractive suck. I'll just have to keep bugging.
How come you guys say 'BellER'? Is it just slang for their new marketing campaign? | |
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nanook
Premium,MVM
join:2007-12-02
·Bell Sympatico
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| Re: Bell sucks! said by Barry :How come you guys say 'BellER'? Is it just slang for their new marketing campaign? Not just slang. A better characterization would be dERision.
They cannot offer people in the GTA a basic level of DSL service but they have lots of money to throw (away) at new logos and silly marketing.
Bah Humbug to them. | |
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AkFubar
Resistance is Futile
join:2005-02-28
Toronto Can.
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Bell Sympatico
| Re: Bell sucks! said by nanook :said by Barry :How come you guys say 'BellER'? Is it just slang for their new marketing campaign? Not just slang. A better characterization would be dERision. They cannot offer people in the GTA a basic level of DSL service but they have lots of money to throw (away) at new logos and silly marketing. Yup true!
However, the 2 individuals in the BellER Direct forum are an exception and have helped a lot of people. It is too bad the corporation as a whole can't adopt the example of good customer service those 2 guys provide.
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"No matter where you go, there you are." - Buckaroo Banzai | |
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nanook
Premium,MVM
join:2007-12-02
·Bell Sympatico
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| Re: Bell sucks! said by AkFubar :However, the 2 individuals in the BellER Direct forum are an exception and have helped a lot of people. It is too bad the corporation as a whole can't adopt the example of good customer service those 2 guys provide. Quite so. The problem is not with the technicians. I have always found them to be competent, professional, and willing to go beyond the call of duty.
The problem starts at the Chairman's office and goes down the next zillion layers or so of (mis)management below that. (The current Chairman BTW is leaving in February to be replaced by this ex-PwC bean counter. Hopefully he will chop some of that marketing fat and use the savings to provide some benefit to customers.) | |
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| | | Barry
join:2008-11-04
Oakville, ON
·Cogeco Cable
1 edit | said by nanook :said by Barry :How come you guys say 'BellER'? Is it just slang for their new marketing campaign? Not just slang. A better characterization would be dERision. They cannot offer people in the GTA a basic level of DSL service but they have lots of money to throw (away) at new logos and silly marketing. Bah Humbug to them. Humbug indeed.
Edit: Testing my luck in the Bell direct forum. | |
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Barry
join:2008-11-04
Oakville, ON | I've been comprehensive of there issues and if I could help I did to a certain extent but I can't request a line transfer for someone that is not a Bell Internet client.
No dice. | |
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