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This is a sub-selection from Well,


wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace

join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
reply to jc10098

Re: Well,

said by jc10098:

Blah Blah Blah
Yawn, you still dont seem to get it. Sure, you can toss around the cliched rhetoric as much as you want, however it still doesnt quite add up. Preventing murder is impossible. Preventing car accidents is impossible. However, preventing terrorism IS largely possible! While nothing is ever 100%, by following the simple few steps this government can help keep this country secure.

1) Use every resource at hand to infiltrate terror cells and gather intelligence

2) Kill as many terrorist as possible

3) Waterboard the heck out of those we have captured to get information that will save American lives.

4) Coordinate and share intelligence with other 'like minded' countries in the world who also value the lives of their citizens

5) Wash, rinse, repeat until the vermin have been eradicated from the earth
--


jc10098

join:2002-04-10
No Preventing murder and car accidents is NOT IMPOSSIBLE. You don't read well, do you.

Outlaw Guns
Outlaw Knives
Outlaw anything that can be construed as a weapon

Murder might not be eliminated but it damn well will be decreased.

Outlaw Driving

No more 40,000 a yr fatalities in car wrecks.

Simple ay? As for terrorism. It didn't stop Timothy Mcveigh. It didnt stop the unibomber. It didnt stop Anthrax Mailer. You can use any type of FORCED / Coerced method you want. All studies show, people will say anything under such circumstances. I am sure if I was breaking the bones in your body, you'd tell me you were a skirt wearing cross dresser who molested kids on your spare time. Should I yield that information credible. You admitted to it under duress. But hey, you said it right.

Once again FAILED LOGIC and FAILED THINKING on your part. On your basis, we should use ALL MEANS POSSIBLE to be kept safe. As a retort, OUTLAW GUNS, WEAPONS, and CARS. Then you can prevent 50-60,000 deaths a year. If one cant drive. One cant die in a motor vehicle accident. If one does not have weapons, it sure becomes hard to shoot a school full of kids or go on a mass murdering spree with your fist.

How about it bud? Outlaw everything. It works right? On your basis, the government should be big brother. How about this one. You move to the MOST REPRESSIVE COUNTRY since you feel this way and tell me how safe you feel. I hear China, Russia, Iran have openings for new citizens. You after all want someone else to be your watch dog. So how about that first plane ride to renouncing your citizenship and proving us how living life under a repressive regime feels. They keep you safe, so you shouldn't mind the lack of freedoms.

Ignorance bud..you just amaze me.

The Antihero

join:2002-04-09
Enola, PA
reply to wifi4milez
said by wifi4milez:

3) Waterboard the heck out of those we have captured to get information that will save American lives.
Until you f**k up and grab someone who's completely innocent, and that person makes up some bogus info just to get the torture to stop.
Expand your moderator at work

jc10098

join:2002-04-10

1 edit

Re: Well,

Let's see. Logic 101:

Terrorism Does not happen every Day.
Terrorism in the U.S. has killed 3000 people, one time. 2001.
Terrorism can be argued to not just be a massive attack and there by making the above not true.

See this is where it gets trick. I can argue a School shooting is terrorism. After all, Kid with gun goes in for an ideological reason, to cause fear and harm others en masses. By all definitions, that's terrorism. So if you want to go on that ground, we've had about 5 or 6 TERRORIST attacks on American Soil by our own hands.

Now that also applies to work place shooting. The minute said Nutjob comes in wielding a gun to kill many, you have the rudimentary definition of terrorism.

On a Grander scale, Timothy McVeigh, Unibomber, Eco Terrorism, etc are American style acts that more closely fit the bill.

So in close summation. We've had World Trade center #1 which killed like 8 people in the 1990s and Sept 11th that killed 3000.

On the flip Side we've had all those ones I listed above by Americans. NSA wiretapping is going to solve those events how?

Best yet, I hope this systematic and timely explanation sinks in. Why do you want big brother in your life. Is the government's job to keep you safe?

If so. Outlaw cares. Save 40,000 People's lives a year. If no cars, then people can't die in Automobile Wrecks. If no weapons, people can't go on shooting sprees and murders. Hard as hell to kill 20 people with your fists or a heavy stick. Hell, outlaw guns and knives, bows, and anything deadly. Watch how quickly murder takes a plunge. After all, you want the government to do everything for you. So on your rationale, it's their job to keep you safe at ALL COST.

Turn in your car keys, weapons, kitchenware, etc. Big brother promises you safety!


wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace

join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
reply to jc10098
said by jc10098:

No Preventing murder and car accidents is NOT IMPOSSIBLE. You don't read well, do you.

Outlaw Guns
Outlaw Knives
Outlaw anything that can be construed as a weapon
Your comments are getting dumber as this discussion progresses. If you take away knives and guns people will resort to using sticks or broken glass to fight/hurt others. It has been shown time and time again that outlawing guns has no effect on safety. A wise man once said:

"If you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns"

Ponder that while you attempt to come up with your next inane statement.

said by jc10098:

Outlaw Driving

No more 40,000 a yr fatalities in car wrecks.
Another classically cliched statement! Lets examine why thats just not true. If millions of people stopped having access to cars, how would they get around? Assuming they all took buses, you would see bus fatalities increase dramatically! Assuming they all walked, the influx of millions of addition people onto the roadways would cause an increase in trampling related fatalities! You see, your simple minded comparisons dont stack up with reality.

--


wifi4milez
reply to The Antihero
said by The Antihero:

said by wifi4milez:

3) Waterboard the heck out of those we have captured to get information that will save American lives.
Until you f**k up and grab someone who's completely innocent, and that person makes up some bogus info just to get the torture to stop.
If you capture an illegal fighter with an AK47 on the battlefield, there is no way he is innocent. If you raid a suspected terrorist camp and you find people with bomb making materials and more AK47s, there is no way they are innocent. If you arrest a man with a bomb strapped to his chest as he attempts to enter a house of worship, there is no way he is innocent. All the filthy inhuman cockroaches I just mentioned deserve to have far worse than waterboarding done to them, and they are lucky that instead of being killed on site (preferably in the most painful way possible) they get an all expense paid vacation to sunny Camp Gitmo.

What some people seem to (quickly) forget is how humanely we treat these animals. Most other countries wouldnt be nearly as nice, and thats an understatement.
--


jc10098

join:2002-04-10
reply to wifi4milez
Um you're just hilarious. If you outlaw guns, knives, and deadly weapons.. you basically have Europe. A continent with a VERY LOW MURDER RATE and CRIME RATE in many of it's countries. Strange huh. People learn not to kill one another. As for outlaws having guns, that's why you make it a stiff ass penalty to own one. Caught not turning in your gun, it's life imprisonment. Let's see how well that bodes for people having them =).

Not that I believe we should take away guns.. but you're logic is so far fetched and IGNORANT it isn't funny.

............. And now you FINALLY GET IT through your head. YOU ARE NEVER SAFE IN LIFE. No matter what you do, there is risk. Finally, it sinks in. So what you are saying and finally agree with me, is you have to take a risk to live life. Do you want the government STEPPING IN EVERY ASPECT of your life, to try to keep you safe. You seem to think they should. Terrorism is a MINOR THING in the over all scheme. It has happened MORE AT THE HANDS of ordinary Americans than by foreigners. So what do you suggest. We go on a wild goose chase? Obviously, that doesn't work. We've had 6 or 7 school shootings since 2001. Those are acts of terrorism by all definition. Some kid with his fucked up ideology grabs a gun, wants to prove to the world something, and goes on a shooting spree. His motive? To instill terror, fear, and incite violence to make others modify their way of life. That's the whole definition of terrorism. It's not how many you kill, but the lasting changes you force because of your actions. So what will your NSA wiretapping do to stop that? o wait, nothing. We've prob had 20 or 30 school shootings in a decade. So how come those are still happening? Listen, you won't EVER UNDERSTAND but you stepping foot outside is a risk. Live life, and go about your normal routine. If you want to remain safe, build a padded room and never leave home.

Otherwise, recognize you don't need Big Brother in your life. The odds a terrorist get you are FAR OUTNUMBERED by the fact you could walk down the street and get hit by a car, murdered, or die in a traffic accident.

That's the whole point. You finally just proved what I have been saying ALL ALONG to be true. Now to see if ytou ACTUALLY UNDERSTAND THIS SENTENCE.

jc10098
reply to wifi4milez
Ya, it's called War. We have captured some of the WORST GENOCIDAL PEOPLE in history and gave them fair trials. You know why? Civilized people don't stoop to the level of the criminals they go after. Maybe you do, because you aren't civilized. Normal human beings still believe in courts. We gave the Nazis who massacred 6 million a Trial. We gave Milosevic a trial after his forces were responsible for MASSACRING 200,000 Muslim Boys and Men.

Guess what? It doesn't matter the crime. If you don't want to deal with the headache, send them to the Hague. There are international courts for a reason.

Ah yes... fail fail o so fail.


ranpha
Premium
join:2004-09-24
malaysia
reply to jc10098
Europe, a continent with VERY LOW MURDER RATE and CRIME RATE?

Yeah, right!

I presume that you are American to say things like that, because if you are an European like me (although I am now in Asia) you would know that this isn't true. maybe yes in Scandinavian countries but not in your usual Western Europe countries.

ranpha
reply to jc10098
said by jc10098:

Ya, it's called War. We have captured some of the WORST GENOCIDAL PEOPLE in history and gave them fair trials. You know why? Civilized people don't stoop to the level of the criminals they go after. Maybe you do, because you aren't civilized. Normal human beings still believe in courts. We gave the Nazis who massacred 6 million a Trial. We gave Milosevic a trial after his forces were responsible for MASSACRING 200,000 Muslim Boys and Men.

Guess what? It doesn't matter the crime. If you don't want to deal with the headache, send them to the Hague. There are international courts for a reason.

Ah yes... fail fail o so fail.
What, America has put some of WORST GENOCIDAL PEOPLE on trial? Did you read you history book? The amount of Nazi Germany scientists and Japanese ones too that escaped trial during the aftermath of World War 2 was staggering. If you read book others than your history book, you know you are DEAD WRONG!


wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace

join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
reply to jc10098
said by jc10098:

Um you're just hilarious. If you outlaw guns, knives, and deadly weapons.. you basically have Europe. A continent with a VERY LOW MURDER RATE and CRIME RATE in many of it's countries.
Once again it appears (for you at least) as if ignorance is bliss.

said by Interpol crime statistics (violent crimes including murder) for 1995 :
(rate per 100,000):

5278 - US
8179 - Germany
6316 - France
7206 - England & Wales

--


jc10098

join:2002-04-10
reply to ranpha
Yes.. We caught MANY of the Nazi Conspirators and put them on trial in the Hague. We also had Milosevic and Radivik (spelling) on trial there too. Justice isn't perfect. People run from it all the time. So what's your point? We haven't caught Osama Bin Ladin. The Powerless poster child of Al Qaeda. Like capturing him will suddenly end the group? Listen smart one, people elude justice. It's a part of life. However, when captured, you send them through the system. We did it to the Nazis, The Serbs, and we can do it for these guys who PALE in comparison. Hitler killed 6 million with the Nazis. Milosevic 200,000. These guys are boy scouts when compared.

jc10098
reply to wifi4milez
Failing at Failing. What a NOVEL IDEA. 1995 IS OLD DATA. Here's numbers from interpol in 2004. There are other numbers I found on the web. However, let's use these as a baseline. Much newer than 1995

»www.unodc.org/documents/ ··· 2009.pdf

Notice the U.S. has a low rate of 5.6 and high of 5.9 per 100,000. JUST ABOUT EVERY COUNTRY in Europe is BELOW OUR MURDER RATE. So obviously, your old statistics are just PLAIN WRONG. You need to stand correct. Now, if you want to use your INFAMOUS WIKIPEDIA as a source, here are more detailed stats. Less verified I imagine.

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li ··· der_rate

U.S. based off these stats 5.6 to 5.7

Countries LESS than U.S.

Norway
Greece
Denmark
Austria
Luxembourg
Netherlands
Germany
Iceland
Italy
England / Wales
Slovenia
Belgium
France
Poland
Cyprus
Malta
Ireland
Portugal
Croatia
United Kingdom
Hungary
Czech Republic
Slovakia
Macedonia
Sweden
Romania
Scotland
Finland
Switzerland
Bulgaria
Spain
Albania

Countries HIGHER THAN THE U.S.

Georgia
Moldova
Estonia
Ukraine
Belarus
Latvia
Lithuania

and

Russia which isn't apart of Europe depending on ones argument

7-8 Countries are HIGHER than the U.S.
32 Lower

So do you wish to take the HORRIBLE WALK OF SHAME to PROVED WRONGVILLE.


wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace

join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
said by jc10098:

Failing at Failing. What a NOVEL IDEA. 1995 IS OLD DATA. Here's numbers from interpol in 2004. There are other numbers I found on the web. However, let's use these as a baseline.
You never cease to amaze me. Do you even look at the links before you post them???

said by jc100's 'data' attempting to disprove me (but failing as usual!) :
Homicide rates per 100,000 population by region and subregion, 2004

-North America, 6.6
-East Europe, 8.1
-West and Central Europe, 1.5

Hence, reviewing the data indicates that Eastern and Western Europe together yield a murder rate of 9.6 per 100,000 (8.1 + 1.5). Thats a full 31% higher than it is in North America! This is getting old, isnt it past your bedtime?
--


jc10098

join:2002-04-10

1 edit
EAST EUROPE in the report is 4 Countries!!!!!!!!!

I listed EVERY COUNTRY IN EUROPE with a lower rate than ours. According to Interpol, East Europe =

Belarus
Moldova
Russia
Ukraine

WOW 4 countries. There are 32 in the ENTIRE EUROPE THAT ARE LOWER THAN OURS and 7 or 8 (Depending if Russia is included) that are higher.

Do you bother reading or just like selectively looking for numbers on a LIMITED data spread to TRY AND LOOK INTELLIGENT

Failing at failing. You put a WHOLE NEW MEANING to this sentence.


wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace

join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
said by jc10098:

EAST EUROPE in the report is 4 Countries!!!!!!!!!
Wow great point! However the United States is just one country so comparing it to four is pointless! Furthermore, the murder rate is just one component of violent crime. For instance, stabbings are exponentially higher in the UK and Ireland. In fact, according to the BBC violent crime in Ireland rose 131% in the year 2002 as compared to 1999. The bottom line is that the United States is one of the safest countries in the world, every statistic will confirm that. The crime rate has continued to go down in most major cities over the past decade, and national security has dramatically improved. Why dont you take a guess why?

»news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/worl ··· 0781.stm
--


jc10098

join:2002-04-10
Great Point. I know my points are Great. I compared the U.S. to 40 Countries 1 by 1.

32 / 40 RATED LOWER THAN US.

Notice I listed EACH COUNTRY. I did not say EUROPE to North America. Europe is a Continent. You might not know that because school and you never got along. I'd be amazed if you graduated high school. So Europe in the sense of countries to the U.S. on a 1 to 1 ratio. YOU FAIL at your point, I am absolutely correct. MOST COUNTRIES IN EUROPE ARE FAR SAFER THAN THE U.S.

So what if crime rose?

In 2004 32 of the 40 countries were WELL BELOW US in murder standards. PROVEN WRONG.

No just admit it. You can't even argue properly. Now you're backed into a corner and got nothing to say.
« ......
This is a sub-selection from Well,