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light_speed

join:2009-03-18
Nepean, ON

Primus Traffic Shaping :: For Better or for Worse !!!

Saw today in Monitor Today and Digital Home that my provider has started DPI. So far all the hype has indicated that ISPs have throttled traffic of their choice instead of actually using good judgement to improve the internet experience of the subscriber. They have taken it for granted that P2P is bad and since majority is using this application beat the hxxl out of it.

»www.digitalhome.ca/content/view/3509/280/
»www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthr···t=103874

From the article it seems Primus has taken a different path, even though they have prioritized the traffic rather than throttling, they have actually applied good judgement to improve subscribers internet experience.

QoS is a preferred practice to improve network traffic experience and performance where best practice suggests that you provide priority based on the realtime / time sensitive / non-realtime nature of the traffic. You implement your priority as mentioned above and let the network deal with packets as it is / when faced with congestion rather than you specifically saying how much/when traffic of choice should be dropped/throttled.

Being a final year student of IT & Networking, I know for sure that this is practiced and taught and implemented in any enterprise / corporate / network environment. In a way I am surprised and kind of happy that Primus has taken this route other than its adversaries. Also to note I am using Primus DSL for the last 3 years.

The first years DSL experience was not so good but it must be mentioned since sign-up I have enjoyed following
- no speed limit
- no monthly BW usage Quota :: My monthly usage as per my tracking is over 300GB. Never got capped.
- multiple sign-in with the same account
- 1Km from Ottawa CO, modem sync 16M/900K. Speed test varies based on time of day.

Now, with my skepticism and with hope that my provider will not lie I have put the service (their newDPI) to test an hour back, since from my past experience I have seen speed degradation around this time. TS has made me aware in the past that Primus has some sort of network congestion in Ottawa, must say it has improved by leaps and bounds in the last 2 years.

I am avid user of P2P for both leech and seed. I started multiple P2P and NNTP downloads reaching upto 8Mbps. At this point usually I have seen that video streaming / browsing would be slow compared to my P2P/NNTP downloads. Today I was very thrilled to see that my video/audio streaming and web was working as if there was no other download happening. I saw that my P2P and NNTP gradually slowed down as I requested more of audio/video/web. To a network geek like me its QoS in real life. The moment I closed my whole Firefox/Chrome browser containing web/video/audio (tabbed) the P2P/NNTP jumped back to full 8Mbps.

What sort of intent Primus has, to serve its monetary purpose I do not care, I paid for internet connection with highspeed to experience the internet better than dial-up and my trial today just demonstrated that. I hope they stay true to their words.


mlerner
Premium
join:2000-11-25
Nepean, ON
kudos:5
Of course the other part is that some of their DSLAMs are always overloaded during peak times and they have not done any upgrades, so they decided to instead implement DPI. It's a mixed bag and it may be better than Bell's method but I think DPI should be used as a last resort.

light_speed

join:2009-03-18
Nepean, ON
reply to light_speed
- you are right "mlerner".

- I guess it all comes down to resource limitations. Seems like DPI may have been their easiest way to manage their current limitations and cheaper compared to full network overhaul.

- Compared to big shots who could have easily added more BW quite easily this seems to be efficient path for better customer experience for medium shot like Primus. I hope that this is not the only choice they undertook rather a method to buy sometime to better manage current load while they upgrade. Dont want to jinx up prospective future..

KC7

join:2006-11-08
Ottawa, ON
reply to light_speed
So it finally happened. At least they are shaping traffic instead of throttling downloads.

Sadly for me, Primus is reselling Bell line for my connection. So I see throttling. Let's just hope Bell does get their way and start Usage billing everybody!

KC

grunze510

join:2009-02-14
Cote Saint-Luc, QC
kudos:1
said by KC7:

Let's just hope Bell does get their way and start Usage billing everybody!
How would this be a good thing? Unless you mean that Primus may fight back or stop using Bell Wholesale if there's a cap.

bell_shiit

join:2009-03-19
North York, ON
reply to light_speed
bell is the incumbent on QC n ON. their arogance is unstopable. they increased price for the reason which they mentioned was that their service is premium and people must understand and therefore must pay more

as lone subscriber ill switch from small one's teksavy / primus and so on who ever gives me better service

speedy light, ur comment seems to good to be true but your test seems pretty practical. ill relay it to me friend to try it out on his primus service and ill try on my bell to see what result i get

dpi seems to be in one way or the other, lets shout for legislation/regulation to keep it in check

skechers

join:2009-03-19
Montreal, QC
reply to light_speed
speed dude i like ur test technique...
anyone ? give me some feedback on this test to take it to next level. how about download a good free point to point file transfer or kind of packet generator and test between 2 friends having same provider and see what happens...

im open to ideas to overcome the dpi, though i understand the goal of better internet experience...

CRTC buddies put some control... "bell" dude like your name....

bw_unlimited

join:2009-03-19
Quebec, QC
reply to light_speed
i was going over some interviews on Bell position about throttling. for 7% user's heavy duty behavior rest r getting penalized....

id like to see what happens end of this year when CRTC's new spectrum earners go live and may be they might give better cell based BW that we will move to that than landline...

light_speed :: @ primus DSL you can get 300GB and no restriction ?

light_speed

join:2009-03-18
Nepean, ON
reply to light_speed
yes, no BW / download limit...

all seems to be flying out the window now... read on Bell's issue

»ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=6914554
»Bell files a half assed tarrif
»www.crtc.gc.ca/8740/eng/2009/b2.htm

end of semester im moving and if not close to CO ill end up getting Bell's wholesale via Primus....

my DSL future seems messed up now


otty

join:2008-10-24
Revelstoke, BC
reply to bw_unlimited
said by bw_unlimited:

i was going over some interviews on Bell position about throttling. for 7% user's heavy duty behavior rest r getting penalized....
Don't drink the Bell koolaid! This is what they say, but have never provided evidence for. There are much more likely explainations...do some research!!


mlerner
Premium
join:2000-11-25
Nepean, ON
kudos:5
said by otty:

said by bw_unlimited:

i was going over some interviews on Bell position about throttling. for 7% user's heavy duty behavior rest r getting penalized....
Don't drink the Bell koolaid! This is what they say, but have never provided evidence for. There are much more likely explainations...do some research!!
And the major part of it, some of the CRTC reports seem to suggest if they had any congestion it was because of the few legacy ATM links they still have. So we're giving them millions and they're spending it on marketing or their wireless network!


pstewart
Premium,VIP
join:2005-10-12
Peterborough, ON
kudos:1
reply to light_speed
This is a more "proper" way to see DPI implemented - they are using DPI to set QOS parameters basically. Many ISP's today prioritize *some* traffic to ensure smooth service delivery (VOIP is a primary example).

QOS is a complex topic and to properly mark/queue/police VOIP at times, so using DPI devices is actually logical for Primus to use.

I'm not promoting DPI here, just saying that this makes much more sense than Bell's approach from a technical standpoint in my opinion....

skechers

join:2009-03-19
Montreal, QC
reply to light_speed
ok, I tried out last night with my friend as per the "light_speed" test plan and it works..

pretty good qos technique by Primus...

cheers on that

freejazz_RdJ

join:2009-03-10
kudos:1

2 edits
reply to mlerner
Actually the vast majority of their customers are on ATM links. Anyone on old equipment which uses these chipsets: Alcatel (Alcatel), Broadcom (Alcatel), connexant (Stinger FS+, 1st Gen remotes), TI (Anymedia) or Globespan (Anymedia) is 100% ATM on the initial uplink. As anyone with the "upstream" sync problem can tell you, Stingers use Ikanos.


mlerner
Premium
join:2000-11-25
Nepean, ON
kudos:5
I meant backbone, not last mile.


cpsycho

join:2008-06-03
HarperLand
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..
reply to light_speed
The only thing good about DPI is QOS for Voip and stopping viruses/DDOS. I would love to see it on a wide range of games, but I still dont think it would be good.

When you use DPI for "ANYTHING ELSE" its bad.

If your network can handle every without DPI then its easier just to stay a little ahead of the game. If you are getting a rush in signups and its quicker to throw a DPI box on while upgrades are going on, then I personally would be ok with that. But we all know the type of company bell and rogers are. The DPI boxes are there and the will fight hard to keep them there.


Maynard G Krebs

@teksavvy.com
reply to mlerner
said by mlerner:

So we're giving them millions and they're spending it on marketing or their wireless network!
Check out the $2.80 monthly 'Touch tone service charge" on your monthly Bell bill.

Originally allowed to help subsidize the cost of converting from rotary to touch-tone networks, today it's used to subsidize the one or two Strowger switches Bell probably keeps alive just so they can collect $10+ million/month in fees because their network still has a few party lines.

This fee ought to be quashed by the CRTC and Bell forced to repay many years worth to each subscriber.

Queue Dire Straits with the lyric "Get your money for nothing".


otty

join:2008-10-24
Revelstoke, BC
My family held out on the touchtone changeover until 3-4 years ago. We were still using those old Bell rotary phones that were the only ones you could get back in the day. Those old black phones weigh a ton and will probably outlive all of us. I remember some of my friends when I was a kid didn't even know how to dial a rotary phone....off topic sorry, just reminiscing.