gmracing
join:2000-12-01
Illinois | reply to aldonorth
Re: More CPE stuff
Great info aldonorth. Looks like I need to investigate the Apple Airport option. Have you decided what you are going to do with the Ethernet converters that you pull? I may be interested in a few of them so let me know...
Thanks...MK |
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aldonorth
join:2001-04-21
Carlisle, AR
| reply to gmracing
We have a network made up of 9 CORs which provide our wireless backbone as well as APs for broadcasting to customers. We only use CORs because they can do everything RORs can do plus more. We have COR slots configured as CORs, RORs, and APs. In most situations, where we have two CORs at each location, they have the RJ-45 ports set to bridge mode. Usually, the B slots are set as APs and the A slots are set to master or slave, depending on which is necessary.
A COR can handle more PtP clients than an ROR. They are only about $200 more so they are all we use.
For CPE we use USB client, ECs, and are beginning to use Apple Airport because they handle 11 meg as opposed to the 2 meg ECs. We really use USB for single computer and Airport for networks. We spent 8 months installing PCMCIA cards and dealing with resource conflicts so short of a laptop, we do not do that anymore. |
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gmracing
join:2000-12-01
Illinois
| reply to gmracing
Good links Kory...
OK, I am with you on the quality issue. For the record, my AP of choice and the one I am using for testing is the Orinoco AP-1000 as the host interface. As I get further along I will likely upgrade the AP-1000 to a COR using the Agere software available for this purpose.
The reason I am spending so much time on this is CPE costs. This is a critical component of my business plan and I am looking at all possible CPE solutions to add value to the business as well as my potential customers. A single USB interface for example, while cost effective is quite limited in what it can do for customers with multiple PCs
Ken, If I understand you correctly the AP/CPE unit requires bridging mode in order to work as described, so perhaps the WAP11 would work where the 11S4 will not. My approach to quality or value is to take all reasonable inputs and then prove to myself if it will work or not. My personal experience with Linksys gear (for home use) has been nothing but positive. I use both an SR41 Router and 11S4 Wireless router here and have recommended the 11S4 to others who have also had very good results.
Is it safe to say that an AP that supports bridging will likely work as a CPE option with the AP-1000?
------------
"If cards on ORs are configured as AP's then they talk to customer equipment but not if the OR's are in bridged (slave/master) modes". --
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Got it - Is this true also? The only way to use the ORC is to run one or both of the AP cards in COR mode. If you run it in AP mode then the value of upgrading to the COR is limited only to the Point to Point functionality that allows a COR to support 1-16 RORs. The other principle reason for running a COR is that it fully supports 32 ORCs providing for user authentication, bandwidth management, air collision avoidance technology, etc. To me there is value in this but it has it's draw backs in that the (ORC) client software must run on a PC thus taking me right back to installing the PC card via an adapter and running the cable up to the roof top antenna with no ethernet option.
Thanks much...MK
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aldonorth
join:2001-04-21
Carlisle, AR | reply to gmracing
If cards on ORs are configured as AP's then they talk to customer equipment but not if the OR's are in bridged (slave/master) modes. |
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korym
Go Wisp's
ExMod 1999-03
join:1999-12-23
Richmond, VA
clubs:
| reply to newisp$
said by newisp:
My advice to you - buy a good quality access point.
Amen. 
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korym
Go Wisp's
ExMod 1999-03
join:1999-12-23
Richmond, VA
clubs:
| reply to gmracing
said by gmracing:
If you go with a COR/ROR topology from a licensing perspective each COR will only support 32 ORCs (outdoor router clients). My understanding is that a COR will only traffic data from RORs and ORC's and as such will not support communication with standard clients such as a Silver PCMCIA card. It looked to me as though the Karlnet software was the same and would therefore impose the same licensing cap. Can you confirm this?
This site might answer all of your question, MK:
»www.cwlab.com/Products/KarlNet/index.html
I think you may be getting confused between Orinoco's licensing and Karlnet's licensing. I'm not privy to the relationship between the two but I believe you can get more use out of AP's if you convert them to Karlnet from a licensing perspective.
Now, saying that, that'll add a bit more to the client because Karlnet has to be installed at the client level too.
Does this help?
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newisp$
join:2001-06-08
Orleans, VT
| reply to korym
Cheap access points do not talk to access points. Some access
points (read more expensive) have a bridging mode which will
allow it to act as a client device. The bottom line is the
better quality tool used, the less aggravation.
My advice to you - buy a good quality access point. |
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gmracing
join:2000-12-01
Illinois
| reply to korym
Thanks Kory,
The question regarding number of clients is from a licensing perspective...
"I've heard about 100 clients per AP is a good number although 125 to 150 might work.[QUOTE=gmracing]-As I have not used the RG1000 can you confirm for me that it does have an ethernet port to essentially act as a bridge to an ethernet LAN from a host AP-1000/COR."
If you go with a COR/ROR topology from a licensing perspective each COR will only support 32 ORCs (outdoor router clients). My understanding is that a COR will only traffic data from RORs and ORC's and as such will not support communication with standard clients such as a Silver PCMCIA card. It looked to me as though the Karlnet software was the same and would therefore impose the same licensing cap. Can you confirm this?
Thanks again...MK |
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korym
Go Wisp's
ExMod 1999-03
join:1999-12-23
Richmond, VA
clubs:
| reply to gmracing
said by gmracing:
Based on what I read here my best options are RG1000s - RG1100s and Orinoco ethernet adapters. For those of you running Karlnet Turbocell to support the AP-1000/COR and the RG-1000 client can you describe for me the basic licensing and pricing structure. On the Karlnet website it basically reads like the Orinoco COR>>ROR>>ORC structure simply renamed. How many clients will a host AP support given the licensing model? quote:
Here's a link for retail pricing for Karlnet stuff: »www.demarctech.com/products/turb···ing.html
I've heard about 100 clients per AP is a good number although 125 to 150 might work.[QUOTE=gmracing]-As I have not used the RG1000 can you confirm for me that it does have an ethernet port to essentially act as a bridge to an ethernet LAN from a host AP-1000/COR.
Yes, the RG1000 and RG1100 both have Ethernet ports. The RG1000 has an internal 56kbps modem so an RG1100 might be the better way to go.[QUOTE=gmracing]-Finally, can anyone tell me why an 802.11b device designed to be interoperable with other 802.11b devices won't communicate with each-other. For example - My home LAN currently uses a Linksys BEFW11S4 wireless access point / DSL router. The AP works well communicating with Orinoco PCMCIA silver cards. I attempted to use the Linksys AP as a wireless client to a Orinoco AP-1000 to test if it may work as a CPE option...It does not. I figured it wouldn't but I am not certain as to why. Is there proprietary code? If so why does the Linksys AP work with the Orinoco silver as a client but not when the card is in an AP-1000 as host?
Not sure of that one. Never worked with the Linksys stuff. Not sure I'd want to after what I've been reading.  said by gmracing:
What I am really driving at is - are all of the other DSSS products out there...Buffalo, D-Link etc, etc unable to act as the CPE client with ethernet support other than the 3 Lucent products listed above?
They may be able to work as clients but you couldn't put Karlnet on them.
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gmracing
join:2000-12-01
Illinois
|  reply to gmracing
Thanks for all of the responses...
Based on what I read here my best options are RG1000s - RG1100s and Orinoco ethernet adapters. For those of you running Karlnet Turbocell to support the AP-1000/COR and the RG-1000 client can you describe for me the basic licensing and pricing structure. On the Karlnet website it basically reads like the Orinoco COR>>ROR>>ORC structure simply renamed. How many clients will a host AP support given the licensing model?
-As I have not used the RG1000 can you confirm for me that it does have an ethernet port to essentially act as a bridge to an ethernet LAN from a host AP-1000/COR.
-Finally, can anyone tell me why an 802.11b device designed to be interoperable with other 802.11b devices won't communicate with each-other. For example - My home LAN currently uses a Linksys BEFW11S4 wireless access point / DSL router. The AP works well communicating with Orinoco PCMCIA silver cards. I attempted to use the Linksys AP as a wireless client to a Orinoco AP-1000 to test if it may work as a CPE option...It does not. I figured it wouldn't but I am not certain as to why. Is there proprietary code? If so why does the Linksys AP work with the Orinoco silver as a client but not when the card is in an AP-1000 as host?
What I am really driving at is - are all of the other DSSS products out there...Buffalo, D-Link etc, etc unable to act as the CPE client with ethernet support other than the 3 Lucent products listed above?
Thanks again...
BTW... my 3 new Superpass test antennas arrived yesterday- a 15dBi 90* sector, 14dBi panel and a 13dBi panel. John is a good guy...
I also received a spankin new AP-1000 that is ready for the COR software upgrade as soon as initial testing is complete. Just waiting on an additional 2 50' LMR-400s and some Orinoco pig-tail jumpers that are scheduled to arrive tomorrow.
I too am addicted |
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MSITHero
join:2001-12-06
Parker, CO
clubs: 
| reply to korym
I was acctully thinking about doing just that and offering service to the government here. I am in Sacramento so most of the state offices are here as well as federal county and city. Sounds like I was thinking the right things.
Chris
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Jeeze ok I have Comcast@HOME, Comcast sold my market to ATT now I have ATT@HOME. Ok now @HOME drops ATT. Now I have ATTBI. Nope Comcast buys ATTBI! Now I have Comcast again. What is this a joke! |
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korym
Go Wisp's
ExMod 1999-03
join:1999-12-23
Richmond, VA
clubs:
| reply to MSITHero
At the risk of going off topic, something you might consider, GPrix2K, is partnering with the local governments to see if they have any towers and/or excess bandwidth you could use to provide access to residents while providing access to government buildings, vehicles, etc.
One of the names of this game is partnering, IMHO.
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MSITHero
join:2001-12-06
Parker, CO
clubs:
| reply to korym
said by korym:
I got kind of lucky, GPrix2K. We're playing $250 per month for a port right on a Cisco switch that's connected directly to a Cisco router with a T3 backed up by another T3 for redundancy and load balancing. We're paying an additional $5 per month per Gb.
HTH!
WOW Talk about lucky! I wish I could find a deal like that.
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Jeeze ok I have Comcast@HOME, Comcast sold my market to ATT now I have ATT@HOME. Ok now @HOME drops ATT. Now I have ATTBI. Nope Comcast buys ATTBI! Now I have Comcast again. What is this a joke! |
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odnc$
join:2002-01-08
Richmond, VA | reply to drjim
Tasty stuff, reminds me of alohanet in hawaii
and your correct, few things are worse than a 4am service call in freezing rain. |
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odnc$
join:2002-01-08
Richmond, VA
|  reply to gmracing
One more thing, environmental protection.
Since we're discussing some outdoor solutions, especially microprocessors mounted near antennae may, I humbly suggest a peek at the Bellcore 1089 standard for electrostatic discharge before a system wide roll-out. (The local WISP here, FrontierBroadBand takes earthing rather seriously, so I thought I'd mention it.) |
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drjim
Premium,MVM
join:2000-06-13
Torrance, CA
clubs:
| reply to odnc$
Actually, there's an adapter available which will let you plug Flash Memory cards directly into the IDE port. If your SBC has an IDE port, you're dancin'. Check out »www.tapr.org for more info. There may be other products like this, but I know these work. We use them in the Amateur Radio Packet Network, up on cold, nasty mountain tops, where you don't want electromechanical devices if you can avoid the.
drjim
--
One man's Magic is another man's Engineering. |
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korym
Go Wisp's
ExMod 1999-03
join:1999-12-23
Richmond, VA
clubs:
| reply to odnc$
Howdy, odnc! Good to see you! You Richmonder's are really coming out of the woodwork!
Actually, I've considered taking a look at QNX. Thought it would be cool to run the OS off a flash card or something, if possible. Perhaps use one PCMCIA slot for the radio card and the other slot for the flash card. I wouldn't want too many moving pieces in the CPE as, you're right, it creates another point of failure.
But PXE sounds pretty cool too. I might have to check that out!
(don't want to wait too long...would like to start putting some installers to work!)
Later! 
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odnc$
join:2002-01-08
Richmond, VA
|  reply to gmracing
On the single board computer question.
Has any one considered QNX or EmbeddedLinux?
With an off the shelf pc, packed into a weather tight enclosure, you must deal with a floppy or hard drive, which is another point of failure.
Intel has a specification called PXE where the bios boots from the network using dhcp and grabs the OS from a boot server.
»www.linuxdevices.com describes a diskless wan router |
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korym
Go Wisp's
ExMod 1999-03
join:1999-12-23
Richmond, VA
clubs:
| reply to MSITHero
I got kind of lucky, GPrix2K. We're playing $250 per month for a port right on a Cisco switch that's connected directly to a Cisco router with a T3 backed up by another T3 for redundancy and load balancing. We're paying an additional $5 per month per Gb.
HTH!
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korym
Go Wisp's
ExMod 1999-03
join:1999-12-23
Richmond, VA
clubs: | reply to cmaenginsb
Sounds very similar to what we're looking at, cmaenginsb. Excellent info! Thx much!
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