ztmike
Mark for moderation
Premium
join:2001-08-02
Michigan City, IN
 ·Comcast
| reply to Somnambul33t
Re: $1,500.00 to build a machine
said by Somnambul33t  :$100-130 for psu I'm going to have to disagree with you there..the psu is the most important part of a computer. Go with a name brand and have enough juice left over. Corsair is a good brand to go with, and go Modular if you want to save space for airflow. |
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Tails
join:2007-09-25
Sanford, NC
 ·Windstream
| I don't understand, you can get a quality corsair for that price range:
»www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a···17139004
I'm pretty sure he meant quality lol. But I get what you are saying.
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Do or do not, there is no try! - Yoda |
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Mchart
Super Joe
join:2004-01-21
Gurnee, IL | Exactly, you can get the 750w Corsair for only $120 I beleive. |
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dynodb
Premium,VIP
join:2004-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
| reply to ztmike
said by ztmike :said by Somnambul33t :$100-130 for psu I'm going to have to disagree with you there..the psu is the most important part of a computer. Go with a name brand and have enough juice left over. Corsair is a good brand to go with, and go Modular if you want to save space for airflow. The PSU is perhaps the simplest, most reliable component in your computer case. 750W, $120 power supplies are overkill for all but high end systems with dual video cards.
I've built every PC I've owned since 1991 and the only PSU failures I've ever had were related to the fan- and we're talking $18-$25 power supplies that lasted for years. The one running my current system (AMD 6000+ X2 with HD4850) cost me $50 on sale, and I've little doubt it'll be among the last things that get upgraded.
The vast majority of people shelling out for expensive PSUs is an example of successful marketing rather than actual necessity. Few non-SLI systems will ever pull more than 325W at peak draw.
If there's a reason to spend more than $70 on a PSU for anything but a high-end SLI system, I can't think of one other than bragging rights. |
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signmeuptoo
Folding and Crunching Not just Breakfast
Premium
join:2001-11-22
LOSTinSpace
clubs: 
 ·Future Nine Corpor..
·AT&T Southeast
| You don't know electronics much, do you? The power supply is the single most important part of a build.
There is a huge difference between a cheap no name unit and something like a Seasonic, Corsair, PCP&C, and so forth.
Your statement that have "have had no problems" leaves me wondering what the truth is.
Question: Do you know what ripple is? If you don't and don't know what it will do to a mainboard, HD, and/or video card, then read up on it before making such a blanket statement that is irresponsible.
It is impossible to specify a particular exact price that a "good" supply is supposed to be had for. Good supplies often sell for as little as $45, even less, depending upon wattage, rebates, shipping, economy, and so forth.
Don't even try to tell me that a POS Allied will be fine for my next build with its unstable voltages, high ripple and noise current, high heat, short life, and overrated power capability. Supplys like Allieds can't even produce 1/2 their rated wattage without failing.
I've had 4 power supplies fail on me, one an Allied. They were never overloaded and it was their build quality that decided to end them early in life.
Don't you dare tell me that a Corsair with it's higher quality capacitors is no better than an Allied of the same supposed wattage rating. All you have to do is lift each in your hands and compare the heft of them.
You obviously don't know or refuse to admit that there is a big difference in quality within the parts used to make a supply. Transformers, ICs, Transistors, Capacitors, Chokes, and other parts vary in quality, and sometimes hugely. If I am wrong why are all the mainline motherboard manufacturers using higher quality solid capacitors now?
Bragging rights my ass. If I had a dollar for every mainboard that was blown by a cheap supply without the owner realizing it I'd be a multimillionaire, heck, a billionaire.
Successful marketing? Oh really? How many power supply reviews have you read from sites like hardocp, jonnyguru, and anandtech? How can the quality of a supply be any less significant than the quality of a motherboard, video card, or HD?
Uber fail!
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Join Teams Helix and Discovery. Put that fancy computer to good use helping to find a cure, your mom will love you for it. »Team Helix »Team Discovery |
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dynodb
Premium,VIP
join:2004-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
| said by signmeuptoo :It is impossible to specify a particular exact price that a "good" supply is supposed to be had for. Good supplies often sell for as little as $45, even less, depending upon wattage, rebates, shipping, economy, and so forth. Well, that's the point.
Am I suggesting that anyone find the cheapest PSU they can find and call it good? No. However the very recent phenomenon of obsessing about power supplies baffles me.
Compared to highly complex components like motherboards, video cards and processors, the power supply is extremely simple- it converts 120vac to the various DC voltages/current needed. Capacitors, transformers, diodes- we're talking about technology older than anyone reading this. Yet somehow the simple PSU as elevated it's status to the most important component in a build ever.
The vast majority of PC's sold use relatively cheap OEM power supplies- yet somehow manage not to fry themselves to a cinder every two years.
If you've had four power supplies fail on you, I'd question what you were doing wrong- they simply don't fail that often. Early failure due to a bad fan (the least reliable part of a PSU) and/or heat? Sure. However, they just don't fail that often. |
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signmeuptoo
Folding and Crunching Not just Breakfast
Premium
join:2001-11-22
LOSTinSpace
clubs:
·Future Nine Corpor..
·AT&T Southeast
1 edit | Ok, what am I doing wrong. I studied electronics in college, so obviously I must be a nimrod or something? They aren't that simple and higher quality units have more complex circuitry, and don't forget PFC. You can be baffled, but too many people like me have seen the results of a poorly made supply.
And no, it is NOT the power here, it's been checked by the power company, then went so far as to go up on the transformer and tighten everything for me.
I had an Allied fail (no surprise there), then a very poorly made Antec that had a high failure rate, which Antec replaced with a different model which should have been good but immediatley failed, and I didn't have the money to ship it back too. Next was an Enermax that also earned a reputation for early death syndrome.
Thank you for accusing me of "must have been doing something wrong". What would that be, pray tell, anyway? Yes they do fail, and I didn't say how often that was either.
My current Seventeam has been running for over a year and a half ok. I studied electronics from one of the best technician's schools around, so please, what did I do wrong?
The fact is that you are wrong here.
EDIT: Sorry to be so blunt, I'm not angry, but a little annoyed.
If there is no other issue to concern with on a computer SMPS, ripple IS a real concern. If you have some time, like at the reviews at sites like the ones I mentioned. I disagree with your thinking if it is that a supply is just a super simple dumb device. Many higher quality units have additional circuitry in them, better parts (as I have said repeatedly to no response from you), better craftsmanship, better design, better cooling, better layout for said cooling, and so forth.
Like I say, I'd like some examples from you please of what things I must have been "doing wrong". All connectors went where they should and how they should. Supply was rated for load applied, easily. What else can be done wrong exactly?
Sorry if I am not nice about this, but I don't want people like the OP getting advice that could be potentially adverse to his best interests.
Have you had any parts at all fail on you in the last 4 years, say? How do you know it wasn't due to, say, too high a ripple wave from the supply?
People aren't irrationally obsessed, people are protecting their large investment in computer hardware. It's important just like surge protection is, though more effective.
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Join Teams Helix and Discovery. Put that fancy computer to good use helping to find a cure, your mom will love you for it. »Team Helix »Team Discovery |
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dynodb
Premium,VIP
join:2004-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
| I don't know what you're doing (bad UPS perhaps?), but if you had four PSU failures in anything less than a 5 year timeframe- yeah, you're doing something wrong. They're just not that prone to failure, with the possible exception of the cooling fan. |
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signmeuptoo
Folding and Crunching Not just Breakfast
Premium
join:2001-11-22
LOSTinSpace
clubs:
·Future Nine Corpor..
·AT&T Southeast
| You still don't name what I could be doing wrong. No, I don't have a UPS, and can't afford one, I have a surge protector.
Yes, some supplies ARE prone to failure, you evidently don't follow forums enough.
For example, there were huge problems with Enermax Liberty and Infiniti supplies, one of which failed on me. The same was true of the Antec True Power II, they had crappy capacitors. The one they sent me for replacement was obviously not new and could have easily been shipped defective since it immediately failed. The Allied, no accident there: Rate for 400 watts but can only support about 150 watts if NEW.
I defy you to find a positive review on an Allied power supply from a professional, technically trained and supplied SMPS review site.
I am bewildered, what exactly could someone be doing wrong who has a degree in electronics? I didn't want to bring up my schooling, but you assume, wrongly, that I am an idiot. Seriously, give me some technical explanations of what I could have been "doing wrong"?
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Join Teams Helix and Discovery. Put that fancy computer to good use helping to find a cure, your mom will love you for it. »Team Helix »Team Discovery |
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dynodb
Premium,VIP
join:2004-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
| I'm not calling you an idiot, nor am I going to play a guessing game as to why you had PSU failure rates that are so outside the norm. Too small? Too hot? Low input VAC? I could only guess. Any component can fail, but compared to (for instance) video cards, PSU's don't fail very often.
The point is- and directed more towards the poster who suggested that spending $100-$130 on a PSU was too little- is that power supplies are pretty simple and reliable overall. There's no need for an expensive unit with wattage ratings that far exceeds manufacturer recommendations.
Yes, do your research, and don't get the cheapest POS you can find- but just as you don't need Z-rated tires on a car that'll only go 110 mph, you don't need to spend a lot of money on such a simple, low-tech component for a typical build. If you spent more than $100, you probably spent too much. |
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ztmike
Mark for moderation
Premium
join:2001-08-02
Michigan City, IN
·Comcast
| reply to Tails
That's only 550watts and its not Modular. Modular psu's are VERY nice to have.
My guess is this guy should go with at least a 600watt, I think the one I bought should work excellent unless hes running SLI 295's or something. »www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a···17139002 |
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Tails
join:2007-09-25
Sanford, NC
·Windstream
| That's if he does SLI or Crossfire.
What he needs to do is outline the reasons why he wants to build a computer, or what it will be used for.
I know he says "gaming", but that can't be all, correct OP?
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Do or do not, there is no try! - Yoda |
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Don69Fire
Premium
join:2006-12-28
Danville, WV
| i play games like Crysis, medal of honor, WoW, and Dawn of War II. crysis takes a pretty good computer to run. i play it on my laptop, XPS M1730 with 2x 8800GTX vid cards and a 2.8ghz processor that can be over clocked to 3.4ghz i think or 3.2ghz. and 4 gigs of ram. i want to build a system that is at least the same. but would like it to be a little bit more beefy. i am looking at 6gigs DDR3 ram, and a 3.0ghz processor. i am just not sure on the motherboard. especially one that would even support 2 video cards. anyone seen a good guilders guide for gaming machines by chance.... |
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Mchart
Super Joe
join:2004-01-21
Gurnee, IL | Any decent i7 motherboard is going to have crossfire/SLI support. You don't need to go out and specifically look for a motherboard that supports a dual-video solution anymore. |
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ztmike
Mark for moderation
Premium
join:2001-08-02
Michigan City, IN
·Comcast
| reply to Don69Fire
said by Don69Fire :i play games like Crysis, medal of honor, WoW, and Dawn of War II. crysis takes a pretty good computer to run. i play it on my laptop, XPS M1730 with 2x 8800GTX vid cards and a 2.8ghz processor that can be over clocked to 3.4ghz i think or 3.2ghz. and 4 gigs of ram. i want to build a system that is at least the same. but would like it to be a little bit more beefy. i am looking at 6gigs DDR3 ram, and a 3.0ghz processor. i am just not sure on the motherboard. especially one that would even support 2 video cards. anyone seen a good guilders guide for gaming machines by chance.... I hope you aren't aiming for a one processor cpu..I would at least go with a dual core.
But a quick look on Newegg and you could probably even pick up a decent quad cpu like so: »www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a···19103471 |
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Don69Fire
Premium
join:2006-12-28
Danville, WV
| my bad. yes i am going to go with a dual core processor. sorry about that.
anyone here ever mess with the liquid cooling??? i see it on a lot of the pre built machines from www.ibuypower.com and www.cyberpower.com anyone have a take on them. all th emachines i speced out from them was $2300 or so. and i priced all the components on price breaker and it was right at $1500. if i dont go with the liquid cooling i think i am going to go with the V10 processor and ram cooler. it cooled both. and there are some pretty good deals out there right now. |
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DaMaGeINC
The Lan Man
Premium
join:2002-06-08
Greenville, SC
clubs: | reply to signmeuptoo
Sounds like something is messed up in your area. The lines, transformers, something.......... |
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eX_NihiLo
Here's Your Something For Nothing
Premium
join:2003-08-05
Louisville, CO
| reply to Don69Fire
said by Don69Fire :my bad. yes i am going to go with a dual core processor. sorry about that. anyone here ever mess with the liquid cooling??? i see it on a lot of the pre built machines from www.ibuypower.com and www.cyberpower.com anyone have a take on them. all th emachines i speced out from them was $2300 or so. and i priced all the components on price breaker and it was right at $1500. if i dont go with the liquid cooling i think i am going to go with the V10 processor and ram cooler. it cooled both. and there are some pretty good deals out there right now. I wouldn't buy a liquid cooling system unless you are going explore the OC limits of your CPU/GPU . It just adds another point of failure in your system. |
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Krisnatharok
0311 Scout
Premium
join:2009-02-11
Sterling, VA | Pretty sure you don't need that unless you are going >4.0 GHz on an i7 chip. |
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Reck Havoc
Premium
join:2002-07-31
Grand Rapids, MI
| reply to ztmike
said by ztmike :said by Somnambul33t :$100-130 for psu I'm going to have to disagree with you there..the psu is the most important part of a computer. Go with a name brand and have enough juice left over. Corsair is a good brand to go with, and go Modular if you want to save space for airflow. This coming from the guy that plugged his computer fan in while his computer was running. |
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