batsona
Maryland
join:2004-04-17
Ellicott City, MD
 ·Verizon FIOS
 ·Vonage
|  X10 Appliance Module: Window A/C???
Greetings...
I was going to use an X10 Appliance module to control a window A/C unit: »www.x10wirelesshome.com/modules/···466.html. However, the unit is only rated up to 500W @ 120v. One of the two units I need to control is more than 500W.
Do you think I can take a "Heavy Duty 220v Appliance Module" (»www.x10.com/automation/x10_hd245.htm) and use it instead? Yes it means changing the reciptical in the wall, and putting a different NEMA plug on my A/C units. (And this violates code) Question: Will the electromagnet relay in the unit work on 120v, even though it's listed as a 220v unit?
Another question: If this is un-workable, how can I run my more-than-500W-A/C, 120v via an X10 remote control? |
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alphapointe
Premium,MVM
join:2002-02-10
Columbia, MO
clubs: | »www.smarthome.com/2001/X10-Appli···1/p.aspx
This one's good for 15 Amps (1800 Watts) |
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cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
2 edits | reply to batsona
said by batsona  :(And this violates code) Well, there is your answer. Don't expect help here to violate code.
Another question: If this is un-workable, how can I run my more-than-500W-A/C, 120v via an X10 remote control?
Why not get this module or better yet, this outlet?
Edited: Alphapointe beat me to it, but the module he linked to only is 2-prong. Most AC units are grounded 3-prong aren't they? |
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zach3
Zach
Premium
join:2000-05-04
Saint Louis, MO
clubs:
| reply to batsona
Here are a couple of other products to choose from:
»www.smarthome.com/31278/EZSwitch···A/p.aspx
»www.smarthome.com/2242I/Leviton-···I/p.aspx
The larger on would be wired in line with the existing receptacle and the second one listed would be a replacement for your existing receptacle.
Zach |
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batsona
Maryland
join:2004-04-17
Ellicott City, MD
·Verizon FIOS
·Vonage
| reply to alphapointe
alphapointe: your link is a module I'd already looked at. Resistive load is 15A, while incandescent load is 500W. Does this tell me that something with a powerfactor of 1, can pull up to 15A of current, whereas something with a poorer power factor can pull much less? What's a window A/C unit more like, Incandescent, or resistive, or in-between? |
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alphapointe
Premium,MVM
join:2002-02-10
Columbia, MO
clubs: | I would say in-between. Since an A/C really just has two motors in it, it is an inductive load. |
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alphapointe
Premium,MVM
join:2002-02-10
Columbia, MO
clubs: | Here's a 20A 120V X10 outlet:
»www.smarthome.com/2243I/Leviton-···I/p.aspx |
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batsona
Maryland
join:2004-04-17
Ellicott City, MD | I have a more accurate reading now. I have a true-RMS meter, and wrote the VA measurement on the side of the AC. It says 523.
Would something rated for 15A (PF=1) and 500W incandescent be OK to pull 523VA thru? |
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nunya
SEE ROCK CITY 475 MILES
Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
clubs:
·AT&T CallVantage
|
Would something rated for 15A (PF=1) and 500W incandescent be OK to pull 523VA thru?
No. How can it be rated for 15A and 500W ? 15A at 500W = 33 Volts.
500W at 120v = 4.17 Amps.
If it says 500W, it means 500W. Not "a little more than 500W".
--
Looks like Reverend Wright got his wish - God Damn America. |
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SparkChaser
BURY BECK
Premium
join:2000-06-06
Downingtown, PA
·Verizon FIOS
 ·Comcast
| said by nunya :
Would something rated for 15A (PF=1) and 500W incandescent be OK to pull 523VA thru?
No. How can it be rated for 15A and 500W ? 15A at 500W = 33 Volts. 500W at 120v = 4.17 Amps. If it says 500W, it means 500W. Not "a little more than 500W". The specs are a little suspect, to say the least 
--
"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored." - Aldous Huxley
"I'm tellin' you, man, every third blink is slower" - Fillmore
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cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
| said by SparkChaser :The specs are a little suspect, to say the least If you have ever dealt with anything from X10, you'd know that EVERYTHING they make is a little suspect. |
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nunya
SEE ROCK CITY 475 MILES
Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
clubs:
·AT&T CallVantage
| reply to SparkChaser
Yeah, considering an incandescent load is purely resistive (for all intents and purposes).
I don't really care for the X10 stuff, but I do have some funny stories about it.
When people move out and leave the modules in, but no controls, many of the new owners are completely oblivious to whats installed. Then, lights start dimming themselves and coming on at all hours. It's funny. I've had quite a few "haunted" houses. The X10 is susceptible to interference from other sources, so it usually doesn't take too long after the move in date for the "ghosts" to show up.
--
Looks like Reverend Wright got his wish - God Damn America. |
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TheMG
join:2007-09-04
Edmonton, AB
 ·TELUS
| said by nunya :Yeah, considering an incandescent load is purely resistive (for all intents and purposes). Actually, there might yet be some logic behind that spec.
Incandescent bulbs have a very high inrush current when first turned on, which that X10 device may not be able to handle beyond 15A of inrush current. Something like that anyways. |
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tmh
@verizon.net
| reply to batsona
said by batsona :Greetings... I was going to use an X10 Appliance module to control a window A/C unit: I would be hesitant to use X10 to control anything that couldn't stand being turned on or off unexpectedly. Having run X10 with a HAI Omni for 5 years, I've found X10 signaling to be susceptible to line noise. Sometimes (not often), I'd find a light turned on when it shouldn't be, or an OFF command not received. If the AC is mission critical (like your pet would get heat stroke if it's not on), I would find some other alternative. |
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batsona
Maryland
join:2004-04-17
Ellicott City, MD
·Verizon FIOS
·Vonage
| reply to batsona
Good point about the inrush current. Inrush for a window A/C unit probably exceeds the 15A breaker on the branch ckt. Since it only lasts miliseconds, it can be tolerated. If I had a Digital Sampling Osciliscope, I'd be able to measure inrush accurately.
Refering back to the stats that SparkChaser posted; I agree; the stats are misleading. If an incandescent bulb is purely resistive, (PF=1) and the unit can handle 500W resistive, and the unit can handle a "15A resistive load", ONE of these statement is incorrect.
One of the modules reccomended was a NEMA 6-20R reciptical. While this will handle the load as far a wattage goes, I'd be breaking code to do it. I can always try the Appliance module & see how hot it gets. I'd rather not wake up to the house on fire. --Did I mention that the A/C units is in my daughters rooms? Their rooms are on the same side of the house upstairs, fed by the same 15A branch ckt. I don't like running two window A/C units on the same 15A branch. Therefore I'm using x10 units to alternate them on/off thru the nite. |
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nunya
SEE ROCK CITY 475 MILES
Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
clubs:
·AT&T CallVantage
| A proper solution is to install a dedicated circuit for each window unit. For all the confabulation and speculation with X10 stuff, you could devote that time, energy, and funding to correcting the original problem.
--
Looks like Reverend Wright got his wish - God Damn America. |
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SparkChaser
BURY BECK
Premium
join:2000-06-06
Downingtown, PA
·Verizon FIOS
·Comcast
| said by nunya :A proper solution is to install a dedicated circuit for each window unit. For all the confabulation and speculation with X10 stuff, you could devote that time, energy, and funding to correcting the original problem. I was thinking the kids could bunk together and alternate rooms 
Did I tell ya, how we didn't have A/C and I walked 10 miles to school in the snow?
--
"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored." - Aldous Huxley
"I'm tellin' you, man, every third blink is slower" - Fillmore
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batsona
Maryland
join:2004-04-17
Ellicott City, MD
·Verizon FIOS
·Vonage
| Not to hijack my own thread, but my kids started to try to kill each other (9, 11) so we put them in seperte rooms. I'm an only child, and my mother is too -- I can't figure out why siblings fight.. Anyway.. I'll buy my $49 copy of ActiveHome with the Macros, and see if the Appliance module melts. The TStats in the A/C units routes the full current of the compressor thru it - I thought it might be a low voltage relay, then I could have controled it as a 24v relay, but no such luck. |
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DrD
join:2008-03-03
Harrisonville, MO | reply to SparkChaser
Uphill both ways, of course! |
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Raphion
join:2000-10-14
Samsara
| reply to TheMG
said by TheMG :said by nunya :Yeah, considering an incandescent load is purely resistive (for all intents and purposes). Actually, there might yet be some logic behind that spec. Incandescent bulbs have a very high inrush current when first turned on, which that X10 device may not be able to handle beyond 15A of inrush current. Something like that anyways. Bingo, incandescent bulbs have HUGE inrush current, because the resistance of the filament is proportional to it's temperature. So when it comes on, it's cold and low resistance, and draws a surge of current till it gets hot.
I just checked the resistance of a 100 Watt incandescent bulb; it's 10 ohms, and 10 ohms at 120 volts is 120/10= 12 Amps! Surprising how much of a jolt those bulbs take to start up eh? It's an extremely short spike of current before the filament gets hot, but it still needs to be considered, especially with devices that use solid state electronic switches. |
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