 SLDPremium
join:2002-04-17
San Francisco, CA
1 edit | reply to wifi4milez
Re: Gov't and clear goals don't belong in the same sentence But I didn't say that companies should give away their goods/services for free? Did I?
It is worse for the citizen because they are paying more for the same thing. But companies have a right to earn a profit. If I can get health care as an option from the gov't for less because no profit, I'll appreciate that option. |
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 wifi4milezBig Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY | said by SLD:But I didn't say that companies should give away their goods/services for free? You very clearly stated that making a profit is worse than government waste. Hence, you are saying that a company making no profit is good. A company making no profit (a non-profit if you will) is essentially giving its goods/services away for free after they have covered their own expenses. The economy couldnt exist if every company was non-profit, so your argument is fundamentally flawed.
said by SLD:It is worse for the citizen because they are paying more for the same thing. How do you figure that? The money needs to come from somewhere. If you arent paying for it directly it is financed by taxes. Given how badly the government manages these programs, the end result is you will pay more that you would have for an inferior product/service.
said by SLD:But companies have a right to earn a profit. If I can get health care as an option from the gov't for less because no profit, I'll appreciate that option. You arent really getting it for less. The money for health care still needs to come from someplace, so the gub'ment will need to raise taxes to cover the difference.
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D-Day; If you can read this thank a soldier
-The United States of America-
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 Bit00Premium
join:2009-02-19
00000 | I love people who expect other people and companies to work for free while they themselves gladly tax a paycheck.
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SLDPremium
join:2002-04-17
San Francisco, CA | reply to wifi4milez
Hey, one thing can be better or worse than another, but rating the value doesn't invalidate the service. You insist on stating that I said that services should be given away - this was never said or implied. It's a stupid idea anyway. |
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SLDPremium
join:2002-04-17
San Francisco, CA
2 edits | reply to wifi4milez
said by wifi4milez :
You arent really getting it for less. The money for health care still needs to come from someplace, so the gub'ment will need to raise taxes to cover the difference. Sure, but since no profit needs to be earned on the gov't insurance, the cost will be much lower to the citizen,or they'll get more for their money. |
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wifi4milezBig Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY | said by SLD:Sure, but since no profit needs to be earned on the gov't insurance, the cost will be much lower to the citizen,or they'll get more for their money. Thats a total fallacy. Unlike a "regular" company that needs to make a profit in order to survive, the government doesnt have that restriction. They will (and have!) run the program into the ground and simply raise taxes to cover their inability to manage it properly.
Look at any gov run institution if you dont believe me. Since nobody is held to a standard (since they arent out to make a profit right?), it foments a culture of laziness. Take the DMV for example, those people are total bums and literally dont care about anything other than stamping their time cards. Now take those same "overly qualified  " morons and simply place them in the back office that controls nationalized health care. Is THAT really your idea of how things should be??
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D-Day; If you can read this thank a soldier
-The United States of America-
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| said by wifi4milez:Take the DMV for example, those people are total bums and literally dont care about anything other than stamping their time cards. Strange, I see that in the private sector all over the place too.
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Bit00Premium
join:2009-02-19
00000 | Nothing like the DMV, at least the CA DMV.
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wifi4milezBig Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY | reply to NetAdmin1
said by NetAdmin1:said by wifi4milez:Take the DMV for example, those people are total bums and literally dont care about anything other than stamping their time cards. Strange, I see that in the private sector all over the place too. Of course, except that firing those people (in the private sector) doesnt require an act of God in most cases. The inherent laziness is what makes all gov run institutions dysfunctional.
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D-Day; If you can read this thank a soldier
-The United States of America-
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lesopp
join:2001-06-27
Land O Lakes, FL | reply to SLD
Dude, give up already! Saying one thing and meaning something else only works for Obama. |
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said by NetAdmin1:said by wifi4milez:Take the DMV for example, those people are total bums and literally dont care about anything other than stamping their time cards. Strange, I see that in the private sector all over the place too. The thing is, if there's "waste" in the private sector, its not your problem. If you don't like the service, you don't have to continue as their customer. Corps at least have incentive not to waste to keep you as a customer and to stay in business. On the other hand, when there is gov't waste, it is your problem for 2 reasons. First, the DMV is your ONLY source of service, you can't go anywhere else. Second, your hard earned tax dollars are paying for their employees to be apathetic bums. |
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wifi4milezBig Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY | said by lakerfan82:said by NetAdmin1:said by wifi4milez:Take the DMV for example, those people are total bums and literally dont care about anything other than stamping their time cards. Strange, I see that in the private sector all over the place too. The thing is, if there's "waste" in the private sector, its not your problem. If you don't like the service, you don't have to continue as their customer. Corps at least have incentive not to waste to keep you as a customer and to stay in business. On the other hand, when there is gov't waste, it is your problem for 2 reasons. First, the DMV is your ONLY source of service, you can't go anywhere else. Second, your hard earned tax dollars are paying for their employees to be apathetic bums. Very well said!
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D-Day; If you can read this thank a soldier
-The United States of America-
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said by wifi4milez:Of course, except that firing those people (in the private sector) doesnt require an act of God in most cases. The inherent laziness is what makes all gov run institutions dysfunctional. Two words... Union shop.
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SLDPremium
join:2002-04-17
San Francisco, CA
1 edit | reply to lesopp
I'm truly shocked by the number of ignorant or stupid people comments in these forums. |
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said by lakerfan82:said by NetAdmin1:said by wifi4milez:Take the DMV for example, those people are total bums and literally dont care about anything other than stamping their time cards. Strange, I see that in the private sector all over the place too. The thing is, if there's "waste" in the private sector, its not your problem. Ok, but that doesn't change my point. People to talk about corporations like they are the paragons of efficiency. In many cases, that's just not the case. Look at the whole concept of middle management. I'm of the opinion that the only reason people don't complain about the waste in business they way they complain about the waste in government is because business can manage to eek out a meager profit.
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Bit00Premium
join:2009-02-19
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1 edit | I agree and your point can not be disputed. We need only look at GM to verify what you say in true. There are certainly Corporations who can waste money hand over fist.
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1 edit | reply to NetAdmin1
said by NetAdmin1:Ok, but that doesn't change my point. People to talk about corporations like they are the paragons of efficiency. In many cases, that's just not the case. In "many" cases, that may be the case, but as a general rule, the private sector is MUCH more efficient than the government, and this is because they are accountable to both their customers and their share holders. Corporations that do not have a lot of competition are typically the least efficient, and these may be some of the companies you are referring to.
said by NetAdmin1:I'm of the opinion that the only reason people don't complain about the waste in business they way they complain about the waste in government is because business can manage to eek out a meager profit. I would venture to guess that most people complain about the waste in government because its THEIR money being wasted. If a corp is wasting money, its not their problem (unless the gov't gives that corp their money in a bailout).
Furthermore, apparently even a "meager" profit is too much profit for some of the clowns on this forum.
[edit: for grammar] |
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| said by lakerfan82:If a corp is wasting money, its not their problem (unless the gov't gives that corp their money in a bailout). If you do business with them, it is your problem. Difference between government and business is that with government, you know your money is being wasted; business has a nice set of financial tricks that are perfectly legal to hide that waste.
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| said by NetAdmin1:said by lakerfan82:If a corp is wasting money, its not their problem (unless the gov't gives that corp their money in a bailout). If you do business with them, it is your problem. Difference between government and business is that with government, you know your money is being wasted; business has a nice set of financial tricks that are perfectly legal to hide that waste. Actually, if I'm happy with the services a company provides, there is no problem, they can waste all the money they want. If their waste ends up driving up the price of their product I'll happily look elsewhere, because I can. With gov't, you can't look elsewhere.
As for your comment on "financial tricks", far too much is made of them, and even the gov't uses plenty of them. Any financial tricks companies use end up hurting their own shareholders, and they eventually have to answer to them at some point. |
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| said by lakerfan82:Actually, if I'm happy with the services a company provides, there is no problem, they can waste all the money they want. So you are okay paying more for something than it should cost because of waste within a company but aren't okay with waste in government? Flawless logic there.
If their waste ends up driving up the price of their product I'll happily look elsewhere, because I can. With gov't, you can't look elsewhere. You assume that waste would drive the price of a good up. Not necessarily the case. The price could have always been based on inefficient business practices.
As for your comment on "financial tricks", far too much is made of them, and even the gov't uses plenty of them. Too much is made of them? I guess you haven't been paying attention to the whole mortgage derivatives debacle, have you?
Any financial tricks companies use end up hurting their own shareholders, and they eventually have to answer to them at some point. Once again, you assume they get caught.
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