Link Logger
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-29
Calgary, AB
 ·Shaw
| Our local ICE team doesn't care if you are a cop
quote:
CALGARY - Nabbed in his force's own sting operation, a city police officer has been charged with luring a teenage girl over the Internet.
It's alleged Const. Randann Sargent, 26, who's served with the force for 21/2 years, was in contact on a chat service with a fictional minor with the intention of having the victim supply photographs this fall.
»cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Crime/2009/···sun.html
Our local ICE (Integrated Child Exploitation) team doesn't think anyone is above the law and certainly Const. Randann Sargent will get his chance to plead his case in court, but so will the ICE team. As mentioned in the article this is the second officer arrested in the last year dealing with child porn as last December, retired officer Steve Huggett pleaded guilty to possessing child porn and is to be sentenced later this month.
Now I still maintain and believe that 99.9999% of cops are good guys and I sure wouldn't trade careers with any of them (I couldn't do their job), but while they enforce the law they are expected to live the law just like anyone else.
Blake
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Vendor: Author of Link Logger which is a traffic analysis and firewall logging tool |
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Cudni
La Merma - Vigilado
Premium,MVM
join:2003-12-20
Someshire | as it should be and nobody is above law (got to hope that is the case in 99.9 cases)
Cudni |
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fatness
subtle
Janitor
join:2000-11-17
fishing
 ·EarthLink
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| reply to Link Logger
That's the second Calgary officer facing similar charges. The other one was convicted of possessing child porn.
»www.edmontonsun.com/news/alberta···sun.html
Blake, is this line of work anything like firefighting, which attracts those dedicated to helping others but also unfortunately attracts arsonists? Or is this more of an anomaly, or is there no clear answer? Thanks. |
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La Luna
Surviving Ashraful
Premium
join:2001-07-12
Warwick, NY
clubs:
·Optimum Online
 ·Vonage
| reply to Link Logger
There are bad doctors, bad lawyers, bad computer scientists, so why not a few bad cops? I don't think this is abnormal, meaning it doesn't surprise me when a few are caught here and there doing things they shouldn't. In the end, people are still people, with all their flaws no matter what their profession is. |
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Link Logger
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-29
Calgary, AB
·Shaw
| reply to fatness
One of the reasons why I couldn't be a cop is when you have to deal with all the stuff they deal with day in and day out you can become a little desensitized and the line between right and wrong can become a little blurry so it takes real effort sometimes to maintain that line.
This is really a rare case as was the other one and Calgary has excellent cops, very professional and well trained both in technique and in dealing with people. The ICE group is a crack multi-agency investigative unit involving the Province of Alberta, the RCMP and Calgary, Edmonton, Lethbridge, and Medicine Hat Police Services which has two main objectives:
1.Find, investigate and arrest people who prowl chat rooms looking to exploit children for sex.
2.Find, investigate and arrest people who are trading child pornography.
and has been involved in cracking a number of major global pedophile rings and such and in short are just dam good at hunting the hunter.
Blake
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Vendor: Author of Link Logger which is a traffic analysis and firewall logging tool |
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Blue2
Premium
join:2004-04-14
France
| reply to Link Logger
To the question "There are bad doctors, bad lawyers, bad computer scientists, so why not a few bad cops? ", there is probably one big difference.
No one becomes a doctor, lawyer or computer scientist with the intention of being a bad one. But I'm willing to bet that some go into law enforcement just because the "seedier" elements in life fascinate or excite them. The line between routing out these elements might not be so far from their own interests, perhaps unkknowingly. So anyone who volunteers, for example, to be on a 'vice" squad, should certainly have their intentions thoroughly checked. |
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Steve
I'm a PC, so shut up
Consultant
join:2001-03-10
Yorba Linda, CA
| reply to Link Logger
Ok, something doesn't look right. From the article, it says "with the intention of having the victim supply photographs this fall".
How many child predators would hold off asking for the goodies for months? Is it conceivable that during the fake-chat, the day of her birthday became known and "this fall" would have been after she turned 18?
Is it a crime to have sexy-talk with a minor and overtly plan for behavior that waits for the age of majority (putting aside the fact that it's just creepy)?
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Stephen J. Friedl | Unix Wizard | Microsoft Security MVP | Orange County, California USA | my web site |
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dave
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio | One thing I never quite understand in these operations - there was no teenage girl, so how can someone be charged with 'luring a teenage girl'? What is the legal situation? |
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Blue2
Premium
join:2004-04-14
France
| reply to Link Logger
To both your points, as the article clearly stated, ""He was charged with one count of using a computer system to communicate with a person he believed to be under the age of 18 years," said Purvis."
So I don't know the Calgary statutes, but I'm sure that those who charged him do.
Whether she was underage or not is not the issue since it obviously was a decoy. But the officer apparently thought he was communicating with someone under 18, and the nature of that communication caused him to be charged under this statute. |
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Steve
I'm a PC, so shut up
Consultant
join:2001-03-10
Yorba Linda, CA
| said by Blue2  , quoting the article :"He was charged with one count of using a computer system to communicate with a person he believed to be under the age of 18 years," Yes, I read that too, and it scares me a little that merely communicating with a minor is a crime - I hope that's an oversimplification of what the actual charge is. |
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Cudni
La Merma - Vigilado
Premium,MVM
join:2003-12-20
Someshire
| said by Steve :I hope that's an oversimplification of what the actual charge is. of course it is. they wouldn't dare charge him if it couldn't be substantiated
Cudni
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"what we know we know the same, what we don't know, we don't know it differently."
Help yourself so God can help you.
Microsoft MVP, 2006 - 2009 |
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dave
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
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| reply to Steve
But it's worse - it's communicating with someone you think is under 18. Presumably, as long as you didn't believe the person was under 18, the same conversation with the same person would be legal. Thus, it apparently depends on what was in the mind of the suspect at the time. This is scary.
(And before we go in that direction, can we discuss this without assuming I am somehow 'for' the rights of child predators?) |
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Tuulilapsi
Kenosis
join:2002-07-29
Finland
| reply to dave
said by dave :One thing I never quite understand in these operations - there was no teenage girl, so how can someone be charged with 'luring a teenage girl'? What is the legal situation? That is the question, isn't it. I do see that ICE tries to do good here, but one has to admit it is rather absurd to charge someone for luring a pretend teenage girl. I wonder if that works the other way around, as well: are you committing a crime if you're chatting with someone who claims to be a 25-year-old but is actually some teenager just pretending to be legal age? Good thing I'm not young enough to have to worry about stuff like this! 
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Want security? Run as limited user. |
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Cudni
La Merma - Vigilado
Premium,MVM
join:2003-12-20
Someshire
| reply to dave
said by dave : Thus, it apparently depends on what was in the mind of the suspect at the time. This is scary. it depends on the actions and preferably evidence from which reasonable persons can infer what was on the mind. until we can read minds what else is there?
Cudni
--
"what we know we know the same, what we don't know, we don't know it differently."
Help yourself so God can help you.
Microsoft MVP, 2006 - 2009 |
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Blue2
Premium
join:2004-04-14
France
| reply to dave
said by dave :But it's worse - it's communicating with someone you think is under 18. Presumably, as long as you didn't believe the person was under 18, the same conversation with the same person would be legal. I think you are missing the point here.
Of course she was a "pretend" teenage girl, because I'm assuming that this was a "sting" operation. They don't use underage teens for that, but cops who pretend to be underage.
So I can only imagine that once the decoy stated that she was under 18 and he continued and pursued his conversation, he was caught.
So it has nothing to do with what he believed, but that once her age was known to him, the nature of the converation became a crime in Calgary. |
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kerriskandie
join:2001-10-09
Coram, NY
·Optimum Online
| reply to Link Logger
Reminds me of the joke: ( notthat this is a subject to be taken lightly......but)
"I met a 15 year old girl recently, whi I met online, in an internet chatroom, she was smart, sexy, alluring, and also a detective!!!
How cool is that, at her age".................... |
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Greg_Z
Premium
join:2001-08-08
Springfield, IL
·Comcast
| reply to fatness
»www.sj-r.com/archive/x1518870071···nography
Follow up story: »www.sj-r.com/archive/x529237277/···-in-jail
2nd follow up story: »www.sj-r.com/archive/x313654536/···fighters
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I threw out the map a long time ago. Now I follow my own direction! |
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dave
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
·Verizon Online DSL
·Verizon FIOS
| reply to Blue2
But you're still missing my point. "Her" actual age was was NOT known to the perp, and if her age had been known, no crime would have been comitted, as far as I can tell - I'm assuming it's not illegal for adults to play games where one party pretends to be something he/she is not, and the other party pretends to believe it.
I can't think of another crime where the existence of a crime depends on what the criminal thought. If I buy a bag of oregano on a street corner, I'm not guilty of buying marijuana just because I believed it was marijuana.
The only thing that comes close is 'hate crime', but that's different (I think) because the actual action is still a crime whether it's a hate crime or now. Categorizing it as hate crime only changes the penalty. |
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dave
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join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
·Verizon Online DSL
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| reply to Steve
This wording is slightly more specific:
The officer, Const. Randann Scott Sargent, was arrested on Thursday and charged with one count of using a computer system to communicate with a person he believed to be under the age of 18 years for the purpose of facilitating the commission of an offence. »www.cbc.ca/canada/calgary/story/···ged.html |
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Steve
I'm a PC, so shut up
Consultant
join:2001-03-10
Yorba Linda, CA
| reply to dave
said by dave : I can't think of another crime where the existence of a crime depends on what the criminal thought. Employment discrimination.
Receiving stolen property.
Selling ordinary products that you know a customer will use to package illegal drugs (Pennsylvania) |
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