panamamike
@oracle.com
| [Help] Help! HULU stutter, think it's issue with DNS Server.
I've been trying to unravel the mystery of HULU stutter on my PC. After trying various things, I believe the problem has to do with my DNS routing. I did a tracert and it returned various odd results. I'm don't know much about networks, just enough to get in trouble.
Turns out I get more than the recommended 12 "hops" HULU says you should be under and to top it off, some of the hop segments are more than 200ms in length. I tried running this more than once and was surprised to see different results. Some times I'd get pretty good tracert, say 8 hops >30ms per hop, while others where getting me into 12+ hops.
I tried forcing the DNS as recommended by AT&T
»SBC DSL FAQ »What AT&T DNS IPs should I use?
However, that didn't seem to do anything to help my routing. Anyone have a possible suggestion as to what I could do to fix this problem?
I don't know if it will actually fix my video stutter issue, but it's the only thing that makes sense ATM.
Regards,
Mike |
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lilhurricane
Crunchin' For Cures
Premium,Mod
join:2003-01-11
Purple Zone
clubs:  | Re: [Help] Help! HULU stutter, think it's issue with DNS Server
I think this would fare better in your ISP forum
--what area of AT&T coverage are you in? |
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panamamike
@oracle.com | reply to panamamike
Thanks for the suggestion.
Austin, TX. |
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darcilicious
Cyber Librarian
Premium
join:2001-01-02
Forest Grove, OR
 ·Verizon FIOS
 ·Comcast
| Just to clarify, DNS is only used at the start of the connection to "translate" a domain name to an IP address. Once that translation has taken place, it is not re-requested once the connection is made and it's usually remembered for some amount of time (hours?)
I would be very surprised to learn that it's a *DNS* issue.
However, it could very well be a *routing* issue between your ISP and the Hulu servers in which case, there's very little *you* can do and depending on whose routers are causing latency, there may not be anything your ISP can do either. |
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lilhurricane
Crunchin' For Cures
Premium,Mod
join:2003-01-11
Purple Zone
clubs: | reply to panamamike
Ok, Moved in from TVoIP..hopefully for further assistance  |
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Flippant
So Much For Subtlety
Premium,Mod
join:2000-06-04
Katy, TX
Host:
Filesharing Software
Earthlink Cable
Texas Gulf Coast
AT&T U-verse
AT&T Southwest
| reply to panamamike
Yeah, unfortunately like darcilicious  said the DNS only gets you the IP number of the www address you are requesting it does not set you routing. Now for a bit more bad news, nothing you can change in your home to change your internet routing. Now maybe a bit of good news. There are people who come to this forum who may on the very outside chance see a problem in your routing and fix it. It would help if you post a trace route here. If the excessive number of nodes are outside of the at&t network, there may be little help at all.
One last thing routing's change all the time they can be very dynamic over time. Might not help this week but it may clear up next. |
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panamamike
Texas
join:2009-07-16
Austin, TX
| Hi,
This has been an ongoing problem, routing doesn't seem to be getting any better. As it turns out HULU.com happens to have several IP addresses, and some have better routes than others. I'm thinking this is part of the reason the choppy nature of the video feed is sporadic.
Interestingly the Netflix site has only one IP address, and the video chop is more consistent. That particular route has 15 hops!
I'll post it when i get a chance.
Mike |
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NormanS
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
 ·Pacific Bell - SBC
| said by panamamike :Interestingly the Netflix site has only one IP address, and the video chop is more consistent. That particular route has 15 hops! The number of hops is less important that the locations of the hops. A zig zag route, which cuts back and forth across a region, will add latency due to the transit time from location to location. Also, keep in mind that trace route is a measure of "Round Trip Time" (RTT).
I can't post an example of a zig zag path because I am connected too close to a transit hub. A zig can happen when your connection is a couple of hundred miles from a transit hub, and you are routed on ATTIS to the hub, handed off to, say, Level 3 transit, and they double back toward your connection location before heading off to the destination. Something like ATTIS from Los Angeles, California to San José, California, hand off to Level 3 in S.J., then on Level 3 transit back to L.A., only to head east to Dallas, Texas.
I've actually seen somebody post a route like that.
I do not know if Hulu uses a CDN, such as Akamai, to localize content delivery. Ideally, a service moving a lot of data will use a CDN, and try to serve the content from a geographic location close to the requesting connection. For that to work well, the CDN ("Content Deliver Network", I think) should have some idea of the location it is delivering to; so it can find a source of data close to the destination. So I would get content from an Akamai sever farm near Pleasanton, California (my connection POP center location), while you would get it from an Akamai server farm nearest to your POP center (presumably in Texas). Assuming the service is using Akamai to deliver their content.
Nearly as I can tell, actual video content from Hulu is delivered over a different connection that the web site. When I start a video, I get a connection thus (from CurrPorts):
So trace route to 'www.hulu.com' would only show me the route to their web site. I'd have to trace route to the actual streaming server to get an idea of what is happening.
To the Hulu web site:
To the presumable video streaming server:
The Hulu site, itself, is hosted on NTT America, Inc., but the apparent server is hosted on Beyond The Network America, Inc. In both cases, the ATTIS ("AT&T Internet Services") network is directly connecting to the destination hosting network. That is a good thing, and would mitigate anything related to the number of hops.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum |
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panamamike
Texas
join:2009-07-16
Austin, TX
| That's pretty interesting stuff. So for someone with little network troubleshooting knowledge. Is there some info. I could post that would help me get an idea of what's happening?
Actually, I'm not concerned with the # of hops, I only went after that angle because it was mentioned as a possible issue on the HULU website.
I still don't understand why my video stutters if it's being cached. Isn't that the purpose of a cache? Am I loosing packets or something?
Mike |
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powerspec88
Premium
join:2007-03-11
Harrisonville, MO
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·AT&T Yahoo
1 edit | said by panamamike :I still don't understand why my video stutters if it's being cached. Isn't that the purpose of a cache? Am I loosing packets or something? Mike If your getting video stutters, then its most likely a hardware problem. What is your CPU. Hulu is flash which eats CPU usage. My home media box has a Intel E2140 (1.6GHz) which is unable to play Hulu in 480p in full screen at 1080p. It even has stutter for normal video if anything is going on in the background (like a virus scan)
--
»twitter.com/powerspec | »netisinc.com | »kcmogaming.net/speedtest
Home Internet: Sprint Mobile Broadband, DSL line: AT&T 6/768
Server: 100Mbps with Cogent/Level3, Work: 550Mbps Total with AT&T and EverestKC |
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panamamike
Texas
join:2009-07-16
Austin, TX
| I specifically put together this PC as a stand alone media center, from what I understand I have all the right specs. Take a look and let me know you think I'm lacking in any area. I'm still not sure my GFX card is up to spec. though I've been told it should be enough.
1: Q9550 CPU
2: 4GB of Memory
3: 1 TB hard drive
4: Nvidia integrated 9300 nforce i730
5: Windows 7x64
6: Gigabit Nvidia Nic
7: No virus software
8: No firewall
9: No background processing
10: Set to performance profile
11: DSL real world speed of ~4Mbps
The only video my system really struggles with is some flash based material. I can stream the Flash Gallery HD stuff without a problem. I do have to buffer it since it needs a bit more speed.
This is why I think it's either a flash bug or a driver/BIOS issue. Or something I have no understanding about.
Mike |
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powerspec88
Premium
join:2007-03-11
Harrisonville, MO
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·AT&T Yahoo
| reply to panamamike
Hmm, well I run a Q6600 in my main system and have no problem using Hulu.. but I also have a dedicated GPU (GTX 295) and not integrated. And I also run Windows 7 64bit. What is your CPU usage watching Hulu?
For me, 380p Hulu under Chrome is 5-10% and full screen shoots it up to ~20%. 480p bumps it up 5%.
If your any higher than me, its a bug in flash or something else. I watch Hulu fine even on my Sprint EV-DO card so it can't be the internet.
--
»twitter.com/powerspec | »netisinc.com | »kcmogaming.net/speedtest
Home Internet: Sprint Mobile Broadband, DSL line: AT&T 6/768
Server: 100Mbps with Cogent/Level3, Work: 550Mbps Total with AT&T and EverestKC |
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panamamike
Texas
join:2009-07-16
Austin, TX | This is the great mystery. I'm running right around 20% utilization for 480p scaled to 1080p.
When you say sprint, do you mean you have your PC hooked up to your phone or on the phone itself?
Mike |
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powerspec88
Premium
join:2007-03-11
Harrisonville, MO
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·AT&T Yahoo
| I should of added im scaling to 1080p also.
And its a Sprint air-card. Its a laptop card plugged into a Linksys router as its the only means of internet here at my parents house.
And by stutter, do you mean the video is skipping frames, or just lagging behind the audio? And is the audio fine?
--
»twitter.com/powerspec | »netisinc.com | »kcmogaming.net/speedtest
Home Internet: Sprint Mobile Broadband, DSL line: AT&T 6/768
Server: 100Mbps with Cogent/Level3, Work: 550Mbps Total with AT&T and EverestKC |
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panamamike
Texas
join:2009-07-16
Austin, TX
1 edit | Audio is fine. Video at times is fine. Typically see the stutter during camera pans, but can be at any moment.
There are days it's better than others. Sometimes it's pretty smooth, others it's a stuttering mess.
FF is better than IE8.
Wonder why this difference exists.
Mike |
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Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC | reply to panamamike
Download and install the latest flash player for Internet Explorer and Other Browsers here: »get.adobe.com/flashplayer/otherversions/ |
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panamamike
Texas
join:2009-07-16
Austin, TX
| I've already done that, I think I've covered all of the obvious fixes.
Here is a more detailed account:
Here's my benchmark video. It starts right off the bat with pans from left to right then top to bottom. The pans are the most problematic part of the viewing experience.
------------------------------------------------------
Analysis: What I've done to troubleshoot my system.
------------------------------------------------------
I've spent the last few months trying to solve the HULU stutter problem. The following is a laundry list of things I've tried. Maybe this will be helpful to others and give them an idea of what I may have missed.
1: Adjust Flash settings: The consensus on the web concludes that Adobe Flash is a CPU hog. Not only that, it doesn't leverage GPU even though they have an option on the flash settings for hardware enabled. I did read an article describing what exactly that meant, but in the end it doesn't help. Here are the settings I've used.
a: Turn off hardware acceleration. On/off seems to perform the same.
b: Max out cache. I have it set to unlimited, the PC does buffer a few minutes of the show but this doesn't seem to help much. I've tried the pause until cache is full, no real difference in playback.
2: Go back a version of Flash: I went back to flash version 9 and updated to the latest version 10. This didn't make a difference.
3: Download and install ABC Flash player module: ABC does look to have smoother playback and they do have some sort of proprietary Flash playback software, hoped HULU could leverage, but apparently not.
4: The browsers: I've tried several. I started with IE8, this is probably the worst of the bunch. FF and the others have about the same playback. Here are the list I've tried.
a: FF, latest version
b: Chrome
c: Safari
d: Zinc - using because it has a cool video search interface. FF engine.
e: HULU Desktop - Using, much easier to get WAF from this interface.
5: BIOS and driver updates: I have the latests for Win7 nForce and BIOS from ASUS. No luck. I still think this could be the solution, but there is no way to know until they release an update.
6: Stress test components: Figured a component may not be up to snuff, as such I ran the battery of tests. Prime95 for the CPU, HDTune for the HD, and Furmark for the GPU. All seem to be fine. No errors in a tool like Sandra.
7: Downrez: As I understood it, scaling might be an issue. Didn't really want to go that way, but figured if it's running at 480p what would it really hurt? Anyhow tried 1080i, the PC didn't really like that. 720p, 480p, and no improvement. One interesting thing of note, my GPU won't allow me to have the PC do the scaling, it makes the set do this. There is a radio button, but it's greyed out.
8: Max out power settings: Turned off the sleep settings, have windows set to maximum performance.
Turned off power saving modes in the BIOS. I was able to verify with CPU Z that I had the CPU running at max clock all the time. Unfortunately that didn't make a difference.
9: Router upgrade: I have a lowly Wifi b Netgear router, thought maybe QoS technology could help. I went out and bought the latests DLink 825 rev b. router With gigabit network and wireless N. No dice, the QoS actually made things worse. Interestingly my overall internet speed went from 4.5 to ~5 with this router. It helped, but didn't address my stutter issue.
10: CPU upgrade: I started off with an E5200, should be plenty right? Well my CPU was hitting +50% with HULU. I had read some claims that 50% really meant 100% on one CPU, so I figured maybe Flash didn't take advantage of the dual core. Out of desperation Iuped to a Q9550. Now CPU doesn't go past 20 but I still have the stutter 
11: Network settings optimization: There is a link on the web that provides an app that will "optimize" your network connection. It talks about all of these parameter settings that can affect latency ect... After applying it my overall speed didn't go up, but it did get to max speed faster... I tested this out with the speedtest.net
12: Turn off software firewall and antivirus: I know these can be problematic, they're all off.
My latest theory takes me to the routing of the server to my PC. I used a Traceroute to find there are 10 hops between my system and HULU. 3 of the hops have 200ms~ latency values! Maybe this is the issue. However, I have to wonder since you'd think the buffer would address that problem. I'm dumbfounded. |
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Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC | reply to panamamike
Do you have the problem with the Hulu Desktop application as well?
»www.hulu.com/labs/hulu-desktop |
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panamamike
Texas
join:2009-07-16
Austin, TX | Yes, actually more so, while troubleshooting, I've determined that hulu desktop uses IE8 as it's engine.
So far, I've had the best luck with FF based solutions.
Mike |
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Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| said by panamamike :Yes, actually more so, while troubleshooting, I've determined that hulu desktop uses IE8 as it's engine. So far, I've had the best luck with FF based solutions. Mike Do you have a more powerful video card to test with? You've knocked out almost every other culprit, so I'd look there before the network. Does the Hulu browser app have a buffer level indicator like Hulu desktop? If not, you may want to see how full your buffer is when the stuttering occurs. If it's full, or even if it has a single filled in bar, it's not your network. |
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