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bbinabox

join:2009-02-27
Louisville, KY
kudos:1
reply to bbinabox

Re: One-Way vs Two-way Satellite Systems

Continued from yesterday:

Hughes originally developed their platform for the military and its based on proprietary, non-standard, technologies, the HughesWay. (hey that could be their NEXT name change!)

This “proprietary” aspect of the DirecPC service as well as the incompatibility of the DirecPC hardware with industry accepted Operating Systems such as Windows 95, 98, NT.4 is what caused an early “negative” opinion among consumers and enterprises of satellite Internet services which obviously remains today.

The original ISAT solution leveraged proven (DVB MPEG-2) satellite technology and was built on industry
standard satellite and Internet technologies from its inception. ISAT used manufacturers that adopted these
standards and created residential hardware that was inter-operable with the leading computer operating
systems at that time (e.g. Windows 98, ME, 2000, NT4.0, Linux). The technologies that were employed by ISAT in the platform were proven in markets around the world with operators (such as SES Astra and Deutsche Telekom) and a satellite Internet service customer base of almost half a million. All of the R&D took place over there, we were just the recipients of a great system that worked well 93% of the time!

ISAT just 'imported' it into to the states. When they unfortunately went away, I was involved with setting this a new platform. The Hybrid modem has been used to create a quicker, better, more reliable installation which has helped to take networking out of the picture because the dial-up modem is integrated within the modem itself, as I mentioned before. This has helped cut install times down to 30-45 minutes. ISAT's average install was over an hour and a half. There were 7% installation failures due to Windows "Plug and PRAY" issues and I am happy to say that the SW-20 thinks and acts like a cable modem and is Plug and PLAY within minutes.

All of your (including birdman's) talk is just that, talk. Its what each technology was built on in the first place; proprietary/non-standard -OR- standard technologies. Did they scap it altogether or have they spent the past 15 years trying to 'morph' it into a consumer product?

Obviously by the reports from this web site and many many more on the web, you can see/find the answer(s).

Have a great day everybody!


grohgreg
Dunno. Ask The Chief

join:2001-07-05
Dawson Springs, KY

4 edits
said by bbinabox:

Continued from yesterday:
Dang - why can't you just take a compliment and move on. Or does confrontation just happen to be your thing?
.
.
said by bbinabox:
Hughes originally developed their platform for the military and its based on proprietary, non-standard, technologies, the HughesWay. (hey that could be their NEXT name change!)

This “proprietary” aspect of the DirecPC service as well as the incompatibility of the DirecPC hardware with industry accepted Operating Systems such as Windows 95, 98, NT.4 is what caused an early “negative” opinion among consumers and enterprises of satellite Internet services which obviously remains today.
I have no idea where you lifted those statements from, but it smells quite like revisionist history to me. Either that, or a complete lack of comprehension. I spent 1970-1991 as military telecommunications controller/administrator/manager/engineer. From 1973 right through my retirement, I was increasingly involved with the satellite end of it. During those years, Hughes majority contributions were "proprietary" for a reason; national security. Those "proprietary" systems they built were spec'd BY the government FOR the government. So yes - from an obtuse civilian viewpoint - they would have been "proprietary". But that was on purpose.

But like Don's already mentioned, they've long since divested themselves from that business. Matter of fact, HughesNet didn't sign a government contract until 2005 (»www.governmentcontractswon.com/d···sp?yr=08) and since then have only done about $707K worth of business with Uncle Sam. I'm thinkin' they probably make that much in a week off of current HughesNet subscribtions.

Plus, the Internet as you know it now - didn't even exist during most of those years. I was still sending email via mainframe long lines right through 1985. The closest thing to an "inter-net" was a disconnected conglomeration of ARPANET, BBN, and DDN. But it evolved quickly. About 10 years later Hughes introduced their consumer grade (1-way) satellite internet systems, usually referred to here as "the old gray dish". They and the following DW3000/4000 were PC based. Starting with the DW6000 in 2003, all subsequent consumer grade modems have been self-hosted - like your SW20.

Obviously your "source" was writing about something else, because those old PC-based DirecPC systems were in fact Windows compatible. I first used an old gray on Win95, then Win98. The first "gray" modem was a PCI card, the second was USB external. But that one was not backwards compatible, cuz USB wasn't a reality until Win98SE. If you had your thinking hat on, it may have dawned on you that Microsoft was a key player in the consortium that created USB.

Yet here you are now, extolling the merits of the 2009 SW20 - by attempting (poorly) to defame an antique. Just out of curiosity, at what point on the technological ladder was SkyWay in 1995? And I think you'd find it enlightening - surprising more likely - to research just how much "technology" the SW20 actually shares with the HN7000S.

Some folks actually invent stuff, and for that - they earn my respect. Others just buy stuff off the shelf and put their name on it. That's all fine and good. But among this latter group are the few who seem to (unwisely) want credit for what's inside........

//greg//
--
HN7000S/98cm Prodelin/2w Osiris/ProPlus - G16/1250H/Germantown - NAT 66.82.187.152/Gateway 66.82.25.10/DNS 66.82.4.12 and 66.82.4.8 - Firefox 3 - AV/Firewalled by NIS2009


dbirdman
Premium,MVM
join:2003-07-07
usa
kudos:5
reply to bbinabox
said by bbinabox:

All of your (including birdman's) talk is just that, talk. Its what each technology was built on in the first place; proprietary/non-standard -OR- standard technologies. Did they scap it altogether or have they spent the past 15 years trying to 'morph' it into a consumer product?
Scrapped would be too harsh - your product has technology that has its roots in the same place. A wheel is a wheel - when you change from steel rims to rubber it doesn't stop being a wheel.

In that respect the current (and last 3 before current) Hughes platform has roughly the same relationship to the closed technology of the past as yours does.

Obviously by the reports from this web site and many many more on the web, you can see/find the answer(s).

Have a great day everybody!
If you want to use the internet to prove that people have problem with something it is not difficult. As I've pointed out more than once it is possible for your category of customers as well. If you want to use internet complaints as a basis, all automobiles are lemons, and all laws are both a communist conspiracy and simultaneously a neo-con plot.

Any product with a half-million or more customers will have a few hundred on the net both with legitimate problems, and perceived problems.

The difference between me and you is that I've personally met many hundreds of Hughes customers, both individually and in a room full, and problems seen in forums like this are NOT the standard experience. We are here to help those with problems, so it should not be a surprise that we deal with those problems on a day-to-day basis. We keep it public instead of hiding it in private communications, and you apparently feel that makes you superior.

It does not.
--
Motosat self-pointing dishes: 1.2-meter XF-3 on 105W or 121W, .74 meter G74 on 83W, SL-5 HD DirecTV|idirect 3100|Hughes HN7000S|Sprint Air Card|1990 Blue Bird Wanderlodge Bus "Blue Thunder"|Author of PC-OPI and DSSatTool


bbinabox

join:2009-02-27
Louisville, KY
kudos:1

1 edit
reply to grohgreg
said by grohgreg See Profile

Yet here you are now, extolling the merits of the 2009 SW20 - by attempting (poorly) to defame an antique. Just out of curiosity, at what point on the technological ladder was SkyWay in 1995? And I think you'd find it enlightening - surprising more likely - to research just how much "technology" the SW20 actually shares with the HN7000S.

Some folks actually invent stuff, and for that - they earn my respect. Others just buy stuff off the shelf and put their name on it. That's all fine and good. But among this latter group are the few who seem to (unwisely) want credit for what's inside........

//greg//
[/BQUOTE :




Let me be clear here, I believed in and was 100% committed and passionate about DirecPC when I worked for Apex Digital, Inc. and helped market to those 700+ homes which we connected (or did our best to connect). I loved the Hughes technology and their marketing Dept. Great people back in those days. Its the business model which upper management didn't like and I left due to the fact that I was not interested in selling satellite television anymore.

It didn't make sense then and it STILL doesn't today. You have to have a model which connects folks to dependable services which the tech can get in and get while making themselves a good living. It didn't so management decided to cease marketing for good reasons. Their investors can't possibly be happy. This segment is supposed to be at 5 million plus today and its barely scraping 1 million homes. Why?

Customer satisfaction. If the 2-Way systems were as great as you and birdman have been going on and on and on about, why hasn't it mirrored typical broadband penetration rates of 30% of the 20 Million un-served market?

Customer satisfaction.

As a professional in the satellite communications industry, I just can't market something that I DO NOT believe in, if I did, I would, but I don't!

I could have probably made a whole lot more money in this profession if I did -BUT- I have an ultimate goal here, IP-Multicasting.

I pushed and consulted with (to my knowledge) the first U.S. satellite IP-Multicast project with Hughes back in the early 00's. They then got rid of their entire marketing dept. and switched gears. When I hooked up with ISAT and then SES Americom bought into our platform I pressed and pressed and pressed and got 10 MB of capacity and showed them the potential business model and then the dot com crash killed everything.

Just do some searches. Europe is full of satellite IP-Multicasting projects. Its the future of "last Mile" digital content distribution.

This is the reason I am so passionate about Customer satisfaction. It really doesn't matter how one connects to satellite as long as it is a win win for the customer and the provider.

You KNOW where my heart lies here and its not with the 2-Way providers today.

Have a great evening everyone.

Thomas-

BTW I NEVER said we developed a thing here. All we did is 'import' a International open standard technology and a working business model which makes sense and delivers a service which customers appreciate and tell their friends about, one happy customer at a time.


dbirdman
Premium,MVM
join:2003-07-07
usa
kudos:5

1 edit
I'm tempted to pick your last post apart piece-by-piece.

Then I reread your first line, second sentence. Basically it confirms everything we've been saying about you. You are a lifelong salesman, 100% committed and passionate about whatever product you are currently selling. This keeps you from having an objective view about your own products, or others.

I will answer the question you ask of us:

quote:
Customer satisfaction. If the 2-Way systems were as great as you and birdman have been going on and on and on about, why hasn't it mirrored typical broadband penetration rates of 30% of the 20 Million un-served market?
You misrepresent our position completely. "Great as we say it is?" Where do we say it is "Great?"

You can find both of us saying time and again in these forums that satellite (all types) is the solution of last resort. It is slow, expensive, and capped. That triple-whammy will always keep it from getting the kind of market penetration that cheap DSL can get.

It is, however the correct way to go IF you want an always-on connection in remote areas, or if you are mobile as I am about half the time. Even in the latter case air cards make more sense for a significant percentage of mobile users.

The winning position for 2-way, in our view, is when you follow the subject of this thread: one-way vs two-way satellite systems. Period.

I would rank my choice for connection this way, from worst to best:

dialup
one-way satellite
two-way consumer satellite
two-way commercial satellite
air card
terrestrial wireless
dsl
cable
fios

I left out such things as ISDN and commercial solutions ranging from T-1 to DS-3 - if money is no object you could inject ISDN between one-way and two-way, T-1 between terrestrial wireless and dsl, and T-3 and DS3 at the top of the heap. I also didn't include WiFi at public or private locations, which will vary for value depending on which of the above is the backhaul.

I personally regularly use (and pay for) 6 of the options on that extended list, and in any particular place I use whatever option(s) make the most sense.

I have trouble imagining any situation in which one-way is superior to two-way in the 48 states. The situation in Europe is different because they charge so much for two-way, although there are many there who still choose to pay it.

It is burned into my memory that you actually suggested one-way as a viable solution for mobile first responders to disasters! That is carrying the "100% committed and passionate" about as far over the line as you could possibly go!
--
Motosat self-pointing dishes: 1.2-meter XF-3 on 105W or 121W, .74 meter G74 on 83W, SL-5 HD DirecTV|idirect 3100|Hughes HN7000S|Sprint Air Card|1990 Blue Bird Wanderlodge Bus "Blue Thunder"|Author of PC-OPI and DSSatTool


grohgreg
Dunno. Ask The Chief

join:2001-07-05
Dawson Springs, KY

4 edits
said by dbirdman:

I'm tempted to pick your last post apart piece-by-piece.
I started to. But the self-promotion was so blindingly evident, I just couldn't take any of it seriously. I kept seeing an image of this blond guy in Ambassador mufti - huge chunk of SATELLITE PRO bling hanging around his neck - pushin' (and pushin') little packets of IP multicast on a dimly lit street corner in downtown Louisville.

//greg//
--
HN7000S/98cm Prodelin/2w Osiris/ProPlus - G16/1250H/Germantown - NAT 66.82.187.152/Gateway 66.82.25.10/DNS 66.82.4.12 and 66.82.4.8 - Firefox 3 - AV/Firewalled by NIS2009