batsona
Maryland
join:2004-04-17
Ellicott City, MD
 ·Verizon FIOS
 ·Vonage
|  x16 card in x1 slot...
I'll soon be inheriting a PC from ~2006, that has a single PCI-e 1x slot. I'd heard that the backs of these connectors are absent, so that you can plug a larger card into the 1x connector, and it just sticks out the back... --Is this generally true?
I'd like to put a 16x video card into my system. I'd like to load a game in paticular that has the video requirements (from the box)
Nvidia GEforce FX 5900 or greater, or G100, GT120, GTS150, GTX260, 280, 285, 295 or ATI Radeon 9500 series or greater, or X300, 600, 700, 800, 850, X1300, 1800, 1950, 2400 2600, 2900, 3450, 3650, 3850, 4850, 4870-series or greater.
How can I get a card with one of the above chipsets into my computer with a single 1x slot? |
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Cthen
join:2004-08-01
Ypsilanti, MI
 ·Comcast
| 
This is what the slots look like. | 
Notice the difference in the connector on this x16 card. |
said by batsona  : I'd heard that the backs of these connectors are absent, so that you can plug a larger card into the x1 connector, and it just sticks out the back... --Is this generally true? Not true at all. The connector layout on a PCI-E x16 card is so much different from the x1 that it makes it physically impossible.
quote:
How can I get a card with one of the above chipsets into my computer with a single 1x slot?
»www.newegg.com/Product/ProductLi···ess%20x1
For the x1 slot there isn't much available but Newegg has 2 cards available both with the same chips but different manufacturers.
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"I like to refer to myself as an Adult Film Efficienato." - Stuart Bondek |
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Cthen
join:2004-08-01
Ypsilanti, MI
·Comcast
| reply to batsona
That first pic of the slots looks a bit messed up or backwards. Here is a better example of the differences in the slots. First is a x16 slot, the two x1 slots next, then the rest being regular pci 2.0 slots. 
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"I like to refer to myself as an Adult Film Efficienato." - Stuart Bondek |
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Chrno
join:2003-12-11
1 edit | reply to batsona
You actually have 3 options to make this work. I'll list them in order of level of safety:
1. Get one of these (you may need to use a low profile bracket):
»www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a···data.com
2. Cut the side backing on your PCI-e x1 slot that's on your mainboard. This is not safe as it requires using sharp tool close to your mobo's PCB.
3. Get a dremel and dremel away the extra PCB fingers on your VGA card. This not safe because if you make a small mistake (you can avoid cutting wrong parts by using masking tape to mask good sections/pins), it's all over and it doesn't make sense to do on a GTX260.
The PCI-e standard makes all PCI-e pin compatible and they are physically the same (with higher slots using more pins). What's limiting your from installing the card is the side wall on the slot. Some mobo's don't have the side wall on the PCI-e 1 or PCI-e 4 slots and those are much easier to work with in your situation.
BTW, a PCI-e 1 has about the same amount of bandwidth as a PCI slot so it won't make sense to install a high end video card on such a slot.
Edit:
Woops, I forgot to answer your questions, yes to both. |
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koitsu
Premium
join:2002-07-16
Mountain View, CA
| said by Chrno :BTW, a PCI-e 1 has about the same amount of bandwidth as a PCI slot so it won't make sense to install a high end video card on such a slot. This is false. If you want me to provide verbose clarification + evidence, I can do so. Just keeping it terse for now.
Regardless, my recommendation to the OP is to buy a PCIe x1 video card and use that.
--
Making life hard for others since 1977.
I speak for myself and not my employer/affiliates of my employer. |
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Punchline
join:2005-10-11
University Of Richmond, VA
| reply to batsona
I agree with what's already been said, it doesn't make sense from a performance perspective to try and use an x16 card in a x1 slot, unless you're just doing it as an experiment. I'm doubtful you would see any real world increase in effectuation, and it seems likely you'd actually have worse performance than with a card designed for x1.
Going the other way makes a lot more sense, putting an x1 card in an x16 slot, but that's not what we're talking about. Don't see why that wouldn't work though.
-P |
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batsona
Maryland
join:2004-04-17
Ellicott City, MD
·Verizon FIOS
·Vonage
| reply to batsona
OP here - thanks for the comments - There are a few more standard PCI video cards out there, than the 1x PCI-e. Does everyone agree that the difference in performmance between the two is neglagable enough so that I might want to pick up a PCI card instead? --Isn't PCI, and PCI-e different from an architecture standpoint - doesn't PCI-e have better / faster access to the CPU somehow? (latency..) |
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Chrno
join:2003-12-11
| I believe it all comes down to how much you are willing to blow to make this "upgrade". At this point, we don't know what game you want to play and what type of performance you want to achieve but it doesn't make sense to blow ~$100 on a card that you can't fully utilize. It also doesn't make sense to waste money on a PCI or PCI-e x1 card because the performance level for these cards aren't that stellar. And PCI is obsolete at this point. |
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aurgathor
join:2002-12-01
Lynnwood, WA
 ·Verizon west (ex G..
| reply to batsona
I'm too lazy to look it up right now, but if I remember right, x1 PCI-e is about as fast as AGP 8x, so it's significantly faster than plain vanilla PCI.
The main issue you're likely run into with an x16 card in an x1 slot is power -- in many cases., the x1 slot will be unable to supply the current required. Low power cards and cards with an auxiliary power connector should work fine, but medium to high power cards with no aux power may not, and on top of that, bad things may happen when you try that.
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And the winner is: |
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Anonymous_
Anonymous
Premium
join:2004-06-21
127.0.0.1
clubs:
·RoadRunner Cable
·Time Warner Cable
·Time Warner VOIP
1 edit | reply to koitsu
said by koitsu :said by Chrno :BTW, a PCI-e 1 has about the same amount of bandwidth as a PCI slot so it won't make sense to install a high end video card on such a slot. This is false. If you want me to provide verbose clarification + evidence, I can do so. Just keeping it terse for now. Regardless, my recommendation to the OP is to buy a PCIe x1 video card and use that. Capacity for PCI/PCI-X(it's a 64bit bus of of the pci tech)
PCI 533MB/s*
PCI-X 1.0 1066 MB/s*
PCI-X 2.0 2133 MB/s* and 4266 MB/s*(if 533MHz bus speed)
*peak transfer rate
Capacity PCI-eXpress Per lane:
v1.x: 250 MB/s
v2.0: 500 MB/s
v3.0: 1 GB/s |
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aurgathor
join:2002-12-01
Lynnwood, WA
·Verizon west (ex G..
| said by Anonymous_ :Capacity for PCI/PCI-X(it's a 64bit bus of of the pci tech) PCI 533MB/s* PCI-X 1.0 1066 MB/s* PCI-X 2.0 2133 MB/s* and 4266 MB/s*(if 533MHz bus speed) *peak transfer rate I looked up the specs.
32 bit, 32 MHz PCI bus has a bandwidth of 133 MB/s, nowhere near to what you quoted. Probably over 99% of the PCI buses are this type, so rates for PCI-X pretty much irrelevant.
AGP 1x: 266 MB/s
AGP 8x: 2133 MB/s
PCI-e x1, v1.x: 250 MB/s, so it's actually equivalent to AGP 1x, and about twice as fast as PCI (v2.0 doubles the rate)
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batsona
Maryland
join:2004-04-17
Ellicott City, MD
·Verizon FIOS
·Vonage
| reply to batsona
OP here: I'm looking to play SIMS-3 actually. As far as blowing money, a family member is moving, and doesn't want to take the computer along, so i'm getting it for free. I wanted to double the mem (2GB max) ($70) and upgrade the video ($~100). A 'new' computer for $170 isn't bad, I thought...The mainboard only has a 1x slot on it, so I thought that's the fastest slot, so I'll use that... No other PCI-E cards on the board actually - it's a Dell E510 from 2006. |
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aurgathor
join:2002-12-01
Lynnwood, WA
·Verizon west (ex G..
| said by batsona :The mainboard only has a 1x slot on it, so I thought that's the fastest slot, so I'll use that... No other PCI-E cards on the board actually - it's a Dell E510 from 2006. Are you *sure* you don't have an x16 slot?
»www2.shopping.com/xPO-Dell-Dell-···uresArea
quote:
Expansion Slots PCI Express x16 x 1 • PCI Express x1 x 1 • PCI x 2
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Somnambul33t
L33t.
Premium
join:2002-12-05
Mullica Hill, NJ
clubs:
·Comcast
| said by aurgathor :said by batsona :The mainboard only has a 1x slot on it, so I thought that's the fastest slot, so I'll use that... No other PCI-E cards on the board actually - it's a Dell E510 from 2006. Are you *sure* you don't have an x16 slot? » www2.shopping.com/xPO-Dell-Dell-···uresArea quote:
Expansion Slots PCI Express x16 x 1 • PCI Express x1 x 1 • PCI x 2
»support.dell.com/support/edocs/s···ecs1.htm
Dell has been putting PCI-E x16 slots in pretty standard for the last few years. i was surprised when OP said it didnt have x16, i figured it was a "desktop" or slim model.
even GX270/280s from 5 years ago have PCIE x16 slots, but theyre also Optiplex's
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Somnambulator - t3h 5133pw41k3r
~Choosy moms choose Jif~ |
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batsona
Maryland
join:2004-04-17
Ellicott City, MD
·Verizon FIOS
·Vonage
| My apologies... The "E510" comment was from memory. I just confirmed 110%, that the system is an E310 / 3100. I found the manual that I was basing my comments on:
»support.dell.com/support/edocs/s···p1052310
Sorry for the error... |
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asdfdfdfdfdf
@Level3.net
| reply to batsona
This is the approach I would take:
Yes you need to be looking at pci cards and not pci-express. You have to be very careful because you only have a 230w power supply, so you can't put a good performer in there anyway. On top of that a p4 is going to seriously hamper any performance benefit with a recent quality card as well, so the concern about pci vs. pci-e x1 performance differences is moot.
I would not invest money in additional ram. You should put as little money into it as absolutely possible because it has a puny power supply, an old p4, and there is really no decent upgrade path. You have 1GB ram, which meets the sims 3 requirements.
One of the least expensive cards you can get while drawing minimal power and meeting the sims 3 requirements of dx9c support would be this 8400gs:
»www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a···14187041
If this doesn't run properly (crashes etc.) then I would suspect the power supply is having problems with the added load.
Beyond adding this card, if it doesn't work or doesn't perform well I would simply write the machine off and return the new card. Spending money beyond this is just throwing money into a pit and it isn't going to pay off for you. |
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aurgathor
join:2002-12-01
Lynnwood, WA
·Verizon west (ex G..
| I have a couple of Dells and measured the power draw with kill-a-watt -- a dual core p4 with 6 gig is drawing around 120 watts, so I'd say the OP has at least 80W to spare for a video card.
I've seen some cheaper x1 cards before on newegg, but I guess they were yesteryear's models. Or maybe nowadays x1 comes with a big markup since x16 cards with the same HD4350 chip start at $35...  »www.newegg.com/Product/ProductLi···%3A44922
Anyhow, the HD4350 doesn't need a whole lot power.
quote:
Save Time & Energy
* Consumes less than 25 watts under full load
The ATI Radeon™ HD 4350 graphics card consumes less than 25 watts under full load, making it the ideal choice for implementation across a large diverse install base of desktop PCs.
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batsona
Maryland
join:2004-04-17
Ellicott City, MD
·Verizon FIOS
·Vonage
| "Consumes less than 25 watts under full load" --->Does this apply to any card from any mfgr, that has a HD 4350 chipset? --I saw one product description that said I should have at least a 300watt power supply.
Power supplies, and their interfaces are fairly standard - I wonder if I should consider bumping up to a 500watt. In this PC that i'm receiving, I'll be putting that video card, as well as two HD's. I bet I'm pushing the 230W stock power supply... |
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asdfdfdfdfdf
@Level3.net
| reply to batsona
"I bet I'm pushing the 230W stock power supply"
Manufacturer recommendations aren't always helpful.
The only way to know for sure is to try it. We can only estimate. How heavily used the supply is will also affect things. Of course as you add additional drives etc. you are decreasing your chances. Perhaps you could use the other drive as an external drive? Will the added drive be storing things that you need to have constant access to? If not an external, that is only run when needed, could be a good option. |
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aurgathor
join:2002-12-01
Lynnwood, WA | reply to batsona
A kill-a-watt is around $25, and that can get you a definitive answer on how 'loaded' (or not) is your PS. Cards with the same chip should have comparable numbers about power usage.
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