  Link Logger Premium,MVM join:2001-03-29 Calgary, AB
·Shaw
| Intel sued for bribery and coercion
Intel sued for bribery and coercion by New York attorney general
quote: The world's largest microchip maker, Intel, was sued by New York's attorney general for using bullying, bribery and coercion to protect its dominant market position in a lawsuit that followed a record fine for anti-competitive behaviour levied on the company by the European Commission.
After a 20-month investigation, attorney general Andrew Cuomo accused Intel of striking deals in which computer makers such as Dell, Hewlett-Packard and IBM agreed to choose its microprocessors over those of competitors in return for billions of kickbacks disguised as "rebates".
»www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009···coercion
This should prove to be interesting as there are all sorts of angles to this story (business, political, etc).
Blake -- Vendor: Author of Link Logger which is a traffic analysis and firewall logging tool |
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  Cudni La Merma - Vigilado Premium,MVM join:2003-12-20 Someshire
| said by Link Logger :This should prove to be interesting as there are all sorts of angles to this story (business, political, etc). Indeed and it is just a beginning. Not surprisingly Intel is denying the latest accusation and is appealing the fine imposed by the EC
Cudni -- "what we know we know the same, what we don't know, we don't know it differently." Help yourself so God can help you. Microsoft MVP, 2006 - 2009 |
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  DataDoc My avatar looks like me, if I was 2D. Premium join:2000-05-14 Greenville, NC | reply to Link Logger What is the difference between a "rebate" and a "kickback"? |
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  Link Logger Premium,MVM join:2001-03-29 Calgary, AB
·Shaw
| said by DataDoc :What is the difference between a "rebate" and a "kickback"? Height, and the difference in height between 'rebate' and 'kickback' is dependent on the thickness of the table on which the deal was completed.
Blake -- Vendor: Author of Link Logger which is a traffic analysis and firewall logging tool |
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  Trel Good Evening Premium join:2002-10-08 Hillsborough, NJ
| said by Link Logger :said by DataDoc :What is the difference between a "rebate" and a "kickback"? Height, and the difference in height between 'rebate' and 'kickback' is dependent on the thickness of the table on which the deal was completed. Blake That was one of the most beautifully worded statements I've ever had the privilege of reading. -- /chown -R us:us /yourbase |
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  Rob In Deo speramus, God Bless the USA Premium join:2001-08-25 Kendall, FL
·Comcast
| reply to Link Logger We've know this for years. This isn't the first time that Intel has been accused of using these tactics to ensure that their product is the only product used. -- CheckSite.us | YourIP.us | Reverseip.us |
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 SUMware Premium join:2002-05-21
2 edits | reply to Trel said by Trel :said by Link Logger :said by DataDoc :What is the difference between a "rebate" and a "kickback"? Height, and the difference in height between 'rebate' and 'kickback' is dependent on the thickness of the table on which the deal was completed. Blake That was one of the most beautifully worded statements I've ever had the privilege of reading. And not correct. 'Kickback' implies irregular and/or illegal behavior, while 'rebate' does not.
kickback: Part of an income paid to a person having influence over the size or payment of the income, esp by some illegal arrangement. A return of a percentage of a sum of money already received, typically as a result of pressure, coercion, or a secret agreement. A percentage of income given to a person in a position of power or influence as payment for having made the income possible: usually considered improper or unethical.
rebate: A deduction from an amount to be paid or a return of part of an amount given in payment. To deduct or return (an amount) from a payment or bill. (Business / Commerce) a refund of a fraction of the amount payable or paid, as for goods purchased in quantity; discount. Give a reduction in the price during a sale; "The store is rebating refrigerators this week".
Detailed explanations: kickback rebate |
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 SUMware Premium join:2002-05-21
2 edits | reply to Link Logger From The Register 4th November 2009 - said by Rik Myslewski : The exceptionally detailed 83-page complaint (PDF) alleges that Intel "engaged in a systematic worldwide campaign of illegal, exclusionary conduct to maintain its monopoly power and prices in the market for x86 microprocessors."
In a statement, Cuomo writes that "Rather than compete fairly, Intel used bribery and coercion to maintain a stranglehold on the market. Intel's actions not only unfairly restricted potential competitors, but also hurt average consumers who were robbed of better products and lower prices. These illegal tactics must stop and competition must be restored to this vital marketplace."
The suit includes language favorable to Intel's prime competitor, AMD. "Starting in 2001, the threat from competition became salient at Intel," the complaint reads. "Intels biggest CPU competitor, Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. ("AMD"), had begun developing x86 chips that not only competed with Intel's offerings, but were in many ways more desirable."
In response to that competition, the suit alleges, Intel began an "illegal campaign" to choke off AMD's distribution channels. In that effort, the suit reads, "Intel paid hundreds of millions in some cases billions of dollars in 'rebates' [that] bore no genuine relationship to pro-competitive, volume-based discounts or reasonable efforts to meet specific competitive offers."
In addition, according to the filing, Intel "threatened OEMs with retaliation if they persisted in dealing with AMD." As a result, and in exchange for "billions of dollars in rebate payments and other benefits," the suit notes that Dell, for example, agreed not to sell any AMD products from 2001 to 2006.
Among other charges, the suit alleges that Intel in 2002 reached an agreement with HP (which it subsequently extended to 2004) that "capped HPs sales of AMD-based business desktop PCs" to a maximum of 5 per cent of that line - which guaranteed that Intel would enjoy the remaining 95 per cent.
Multiple emails cited in the filing indicate that Intel was aware that its actions could be used to implicate it in anti-competitive behavior. One email from "an Intel executive" to Acer, for example, describes an internal Intel electronic record-keeping tool as "a very sensitive and important document which can come under anti-trust scrutiny. Please avoid using strong language like the ones below: a. 'we need kick [sic] them [AMD] out of the major ... companies.' b. maintain the [market segment share] and beat AMD out of the major ... accounts.'"
The lawsuit is just the latest in Intel's legal woes. Having recently been fined 1.06bn ($1.5bn) by the EU for similar - if not identical - anti-competitive practices, the company is reportedly facing a formal complaint by the US Federal Trade Commission in "a matter of weeks or a matter of months," according to sources cited by Reuters.
Intel did not immediately respond to our request for comment.
[some emphasis added] |
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  Matt Take me down to the paradise city Premium join:2003-07-20 Jamestown, NC | reply to Link Logger Is this a desktop issue? AMD servers are prominently displayed on both HP and Dell's website. They are significantly cheaper than Intel-based servers too. |
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  Steve I'm a PC, so shut up Consultant join:2001-03-10 Yorba Linda, CA
| reply to DataDoc said by DataDoc :What is the difference between a "rebate" and a "kickback"? These rebates are typically advertising allowances, so if Dell runs an add for their computers, and they highlight the Intel component (cue the jingle), Intel helps pay for the advertising. These are "ad co-op programs", and are in almost every industry - they are universal and uncontroversial in their usual state.
The claim here is that Intel is leveraging this kind of rebate not so much as an offset against advertising costs, but as a carrot/stick to keep vendors from adopting AMD.
"We won't give you any ad co-op dollars if you are using AMD. You're with us or you're not", and these co-op dollars are so large that they are hard to ignore.
This seems hardcore, but I'm not 100% convinced that it's wrong. It may be illegal. |
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 SUMware Premium join:2002-05-21
| said by Steve :This seems hardcore, but I'm not 100% convinced that it's wrong. It may be illegal. The following are some of the concepts behind the accusations against Intel in the US, EU, and elsewhere. They are very serious charges with potentially severe legal penalties.
Coersion: Coercion is the practice of compelling a person to behave in an involuntary way (whether through action or inaction) by use of threats, intimidation or some other form of pressure or force.
Economic coercion is when a controller of a vital resource uses his advantage to compel a person to do something he would not do if this resource were not monopolized.
Economic coercion requires market power. In the above example, the coercer's refusal to supply the coercee would be meaningless if the coercee had access to other independent sources of supply. But the coercer can turn his conditional refusal into a vital threat only because of his coercive monopoly over an essential resource, with no other substitutes. In a competitive marketplace, the possibility of economic coercion is much reduced as suppliers are compelled by competition to accept less money or labor for their goods.
Coercion, as an element of duress, is grounds for seeking the Rescission or cancellation of a contract or deed. When one party to an instrument is forced against his or her will to agree to its terms the document can be declared void by a court.
The coercion of small businesses by a cartel to fix prices of particular items supplied to them is a violation of antitrust laws, which are intended to prevent the restraint of competition in commerce.
Finally, economic coercion is generally unlawful under most systems of anti-trust legislation, where it can amount to either a criminal offence as under the Sherman Act of the US or an administrative offence liable to a mere fine as under EU legislation on the abuse of a dominant position.
Bribery: Bribery is a white collar crime in which money, a favor or something else of value is promised to, given to, or taken from an individual or corporation in an attempt to sway his or its views, opinions, or decisions.
Issuing or accepting bribes is a serious crime that may result in heavy fines or several years in prison. Both civil and criminal charges can be levied against those suspected of being involved in kickback schemes.
Bribery: Bribery, a form of pecuniary corruption, is an act implying money or gift given that alters the behavior of the recipient. Bribery constitutes a crime and is defined by Black's Law Dictionary as the offering, giving, receiving, or soliciting of any item of value to influence the actions of an official or other person in discharge of a public or legal duty. The bribe is the gift bestowed to influence the recipient's conduct. It may be any money, good, right in action, property, preferment, privilege, emolument, object of value, advantage, or merely a promise or undertaking to induce or influence the action, vote, or influence of a person in an official or public capacity.
Restraint of trade: Contracts or combinations that tend, or are designed, to eliminate or stifle competition, create a Monopoly, artificially maintain prices, or otherwise hamper or obstruct the course of trade as it would be carried on if it were left to the control of natural economic forces.
As used in the Sherman Anti-Trust Act (15 U.S.C.A. § 1 et seq.), unreasonable restraints of trade are illegal per se and interfere with free competition in business and commercial transactions. Such restraint tends to restrict production, affect prices, or otherwise control the market to the detriment of purchasers or consumers of goods and services. A restraint of trade that is ordinarily reasonable can be rendered unreasonable if it is accompanied by a Specific Intent to achieve the equivalent of a forbidden restraint. |
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  Conspiracy
@anonymouse.org
| reply to Steve Suing Intel in this rough economic time by US???... This coincides with the Chinese's debut of her 'quadrillion' supercomputer with 6,144 Intel CPUs and 5,120 AMD GPUs inside!!! (»www.tomshardware.com/news/China-···966.html) |
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  MalibuMaxx
join:2007-02-06 Chesterton, IN | reply to Rob Exactly and welcome to the free market... |
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  Santa Fe I think therefore I Fold. Premium,ExMod 2002-7 join:2000-08-22 Freight Yard clubs: 
·Mediacom
| reply to Link Logger Well, here comes the state gravy train a rolling. Convenient NY waits till AFTER the EC judgment to file their own suit. If this is SO bad, why didn't they file this years ago? Because now they will have a legal precedent to fall back on when their case goes to the jury.
And watch the other states fall in line, FREE money!  -- November is National Alzheimers Disease Awareness Month and National Family Caregivers Month!
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 Curlee
join:2009-07-17 Issaquah, WA
·Comcast Formerly ..
| Perhaps Cuomo sensed a changed political climate.
What's significant to me is that it can no longer be said that "it's just those crazy Europeans".
Would this indeed go to a jury, rather than be heard by a judge?
I hope all these folks realize that Intel plays hardball... |
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 SUMware Premium join:2002-05-21
4 edits | reply to Santa Fe said by Santa Fe :Well, here comes the state gravy train a rolling. And watch the other states fall in line, FREE money! The case hasn't even been brought to court yet. Intel could be found not guilty. You seem to be jumping the gun just a bit.
And if Intel is found guilty (perhaps years down the road, and after numerous appeals) would you have problems with Intel being held lawfully responsible and accountable for their crimes?
said by Santa Fe :If this is SO bad, why didn't they file this years ago? Ask them: Contact the N.Y. Attorney General On this page, you will find information to help you contact Attorney General Andrew Cuomo and key links for reaching the Attorney General's Office.
said by Curlee :What's significant to me is that it can no longer be said that "it's just those crazy Europeans". Sure, let's all just ignore the law. Then all corporations can do exactly whatever they want. Rational, lawful, competitive, capitalist? NOT! |
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 noway1
join:2004-11-29 | reply to Link Logger Thanks for the heads-up. I had a laptop on order with an Intel processor...cancelled that one today. Went from AMD-->Intel for my latest home computer but don't want to put all my eggs in a dirty basket. |
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 amungus Premium join:2004-11-26 America clubs:
| reply to Link Logger Interesting...
(as most know) AMD's been into the whole anti-trust thing for awhile. »breakfree.amd.com/en-us/antitrust.aspx ("here's a map for that" )
Curious that this guy is going for it now.
Not that I hope Intel gets hammered terribly and owes boatloads of money, but it would be nice to see them humbled a little bit. After all, without a competitor such as AMD, who knows where we'd be today.
I do agree with this statement (from: »www.pcworld.com/article/181441/n···ews.html :
""It is time for Intel to admit its misconduct, repair the harms it has perpetrated and change its business practices," he said. "Its legal strategy is clearly not working and its broad claims of innocence are being shown to be more hollow each passing day. The quicker Intel owns up to its actions, the quicker it, and the entire computer industry, can move on."" Suck it up, admit you didn't play fairly, and own up to the devious tactics. I think we'd all be better off if things could just move on.
It also does seem that more major OEM computers have been becoming available with the choice of AMD than in the past few years... Wonder if Intel kind of started backing off a little... |
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 Curlee
join:2009-07-17 Issaquah, WA
·Comcast Formerly ..
| reply to SUMware said by SUMware :said by Curlee :What's significant to me is that it can no longer be said that "it's just those crazy Europeans". Sure, let's all just ignore the law. Then all corporations can do exactly whatever they want. Rational, lawful, competitive, capitalist? NOT! I'm at a loss to explain how you got from my statement to yours. Where did I suggest we ignore the law? You appear to be attacking straw men. |
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  Cheese Premium join:2003-10-26 Naples, FL clubs:
| reply to Steve said by Steve :said by DataDoc :What is the difference between a "rebate" and a "kickback"? These rebates are typically advertising allowances, so if Dell runs an add for their computers, and they highlight the Intel component (cue the jingle), Intel helps pay for the advertising. These are "ad co-op programs", and are in almost every industry - they are universal and uncontroversial in their usual state. The claim here is that Intel is leveraging this kind of rebate not so much as an offset against advertising costs, but as a carrot/stick to keep vendors from adopting AMD. "We won't give you any ad co-op dollars if you are using AMD. You're with us or you're not", and these co-op dollars are so large that they are hard to ignore. This seems hardcore, but I'm not 100% convinced that it's wrong. It may be illegal. Illegal = wrong |
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