| Displacement vs Forced Induction/ v8/12 vs 4 cyl The infamous "Theres no replacement for displacement" debate. Looks like the V8 is in a run for it's money!
To name a few:
Subaru WRX
Mitsubishi Evo 8
Chevy Cobalt SS
Honda S2000
»www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJpLTB_opm4
Here's a 4 cylinder engine producing 400 Break Horsepower, which keeps up with a 12 Cylinder engine!
The Honda s200 isn't even turbo charged and it produces 120 Horsepower per liter, amazing!
Here's another video of an old Honda CRX beating a Lamborghini! It's probably got a K20 motor in it with over 200 Horsepower, mind you the CRX weighs roughly 2,000 pounds.
»www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzP-etuL6Y8 |
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 MospawWhat, too soon?Hawaiian Jellyfish
join:2001-01-08
Sin City
kudos:1 | Very impressive.
But there's one area where the four-bangers will never beat the engines with more holes: smoothness. |
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 TearAbiteD'oh
join:2001-07-25
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
kudos:2 | reply to DarkSithPro
I'll take my V8+Forced Induction (425HP)  |
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You can take any turd and dump 10k$ into it and make it fast.
You take a more suitable turd (say a V8 instead of a 4cyl) and dump that same 10k$ into it and it will be faster.
So....exactly what does this thread prove....or even mean ?
There is no replacement for displacement, never has been, never will be.
If small motors could actually go as fast as larger ones, Pro stock and top fuelers would run 4 cylinder motors for the lighter weight.
But, they don't. |
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 C0deZer0Oc'D To Rhythm And PolicePremium
join:2001-10-03
Davenport, FL | reply to DarkSithPro
I guess it just goes to prove how "bang for the buck" those 80s era Hondas were. The current models just seem like such a joke compared to stuff like that, properly and legitimately tuned.
Still though, I much prefer the engine note of even a v6 over those 4-bangers as they are so frequently called. 
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| reply to Mospaw
said by Mospaw:Very impressive. But there's one area where the four-bangers will never beat the engines with more holes: smoothness. But the 4 cylinder motors will get better gas mileage. That's important as the price of gas rises. |
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 PopePremium
join:2001-08-05
Napa, CA
 ·AT&T U-Verse
| said by JukeBoxHero:said by Mospaw:Very impressive. But there's one area where the four-bangers will never beat the engines with more holes: smoothness. But the 4 cylinder motors will get better gas mileage. That's important as the price of gas rises. Cylinder deactivation narrows this gap a bit.
Also, I have issues with the 300 and 400+ hp 4 bangers. Most of these are forced induction, and extensively modified and tuned. These engines are hand grenades, and aren't going to last 100k miles or more. (Stock 4 bangers with 300+ hp are an exception, they've been through rigorous testing)
Pope |
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MospawWhat, too soon?Hawaiian Jellyfish
join:2001-01-08
Sin City
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| reply to JukeBoxHero
said by JukeBoxHero:But the 4 cylinder motors will get better gas mileage. That's important as the price of gas rises. Of course they will. They're smaller displacement for the most part. But better mileage isn't smoother, is it? That was my only point. 
Personally, I don't mind the mileage hit that my larger, smoother engine gives me. And even at $5 a gallon or more, it's worth it to me to have a far less stressed (or at least less-revved  ) engine when cruising at 75 MPH.
And note that I'm not saying one is better than the other. I simply have a preference for larger engines with at least 8 cylinders than smaller forced induction engines with 4 cylinders. |
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| reply to JukeBoxHero
said by JukeBoxHero:But the 4 cylinder motors will get better gas mileage. That's important as the price of gas rises. Actually, they don't. The Honda s2000 is a two seater that gets 18MPG city and requires premium gas. Given the size of the car and the fact that it needs higher octane, I'd consider it a gas guzzler. My bet is that all those high-output engines are about the same.
Also, can someone explain:
The 237HP is at 7800 RPM and it redlines at 8000 RPM. Is it just me or is that pushing the motor just a bit?
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| said by burgermeister:said by JukeBoxHero:But the 4 cylinder motors will get better gas mileage. That's important as the price of gas rises. Actually, they don't. The Honda s2000 is a two seater that gets 18MPG city and requires premium gas. Given the size of the car and the fact that it needs higher octane, I'd consider it a gas guzzler. My bet is that all those high-output engines are about the same. They don't? Because you can find one or two 4 cyl engines you want to bet they're all about the same. I'll take that bet and win!
There are a few high performance 4 bangers that get bad mileage but check out Road and Track for more comparisons.
»www.roadandtrack.com/assets/down···mary.pdf
Then there's the government site, »www.fueleconomy.gov/FEG/FEG2010.pdf to prove you wrong too. |
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 TA63ST215WPremium,MVM
join:2000-11-23
there
kudos:2 | reply to DarkSithPro
I'm happy.
I drive what I want. See the username
Might as well start a thread asking who is stupider: Democrats or Republicans.
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| reply to burgermeister
said by burgermeister:said by JukeBoxHero:But the 4 cylinder motors will get better gas mileage. That's important as the price of gas rises. Actually, they don't. The Honda s2000 is a two seater that gets 18MPG city and requires premium gas. Given the size of the car and the fact that it needs higher octane, I'd consider it a gas guzzler. My bet is that all those high-output engines are about the same. Also, can someone explain: The 237HP is at 7800 RPM and it redlines at 8000 RPM. Is it just me or is that pushing the motor just a bit? I-Vtec usually kicks in after 5,800 RPM. You have to keep the RPM's high on Honda engines to keep the power band from dropping. That's normal though. I have a k20 motor and they love to rev high. |
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 BonezXBasement DwellerPremium
join:2004-04-13
Canada
1 edit | reply to Pope
said by Pope:said by JukeBoxHero:said by Mospaw:Very impressive. But there's one area where the four-bangers will never beat the engines with more holes: smoothness. But the 4 cylinder motors will get better gas mileage. That's important as the price of gas rises. Cylinder deactivation narrows this gap a bit. Also, I have issues with the 300 and 400+ hp 4 bangers. Most of these are forced induction, and extensively modified and tuned. These engines are hand grenades, and aren't going to last 100k miles or more. (Stock 4 bangers with 300+ hp are an exception, they've been through rigorous testing) Pope evo's and sti's are used as daily drivers all around the world, each of which puts out in excess of 250hp to the wheels, and can easily handle up to 450hp on stock internals and pump gas. the engines used in these cars come from designs used in the WRC where a restrictor plate is used on the intake of the engine limiting them to 300hp, but they are pretty much allowed limitless torque. and i have yet to hear about someone splitting their crank in half while doing 100mph, but i've seen it done from a standstill.(actually saw a Subaru sheer off all 4 drive axles, but that thing had too much power)
as for the smoothness, nothing beats a rotary, and it's still smaller then a 4cyl. |
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2 edits | Unfortunately Wankel engines have almost no torque, and they burn engine oil way too fast. Also, looks like Mazda couldn't make up their mind when they made the RX-8. Is it a Coupe, or a Sedan? And that car is one of the ugliest cars I've seen... |
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 GbcueAlmost P.E.Premium
join:2001-09-30
Santa Rosa, CA
kudos:8
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| What about the Mustang 4.0L V6 vs. a Toyota 3.5L V6?
My STOCK Toyota RAV4 (3.5L V6) is faster than a 4.0L V6 Mustang off the line.
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 MusclesPremium
join:2003-08-09
The Gym
kudos:3 | According to the "more educated" posters that's apples to oranges. Since your Rav4 is 4WD and the Mustang is RWD, it moots the point of engine design. Obviously engine design has nothing to do with drive wheels but to each his own
There is a replacement for displacement, it's called Toyota.
2010 Toyota Camry SE
3.5-liter DOHC 24-valve dual VVT-i V6; 268 hp @ 6200 rpm/248 lb.-ft. @ 4700 rpm
2010 Ford Mustang V6
4.0L SOHC 12Valve V6 (245 cu. in.) 210hp @ 5300 240lb.-ft @ 3500
Obviously Toyota can use less displacement and produce staggering amounts more power and torque. Time to get with 1980 Ford. |
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| said by Muscles:According to the "more educated" posters that's apples to oranges. Since your Rav4 is 4WD and the Mustang is RWD, it moots the point of engine design. Obviously engine design has nothing to do with drive wheels but to each his own There is a replacement for displacement, it's called Toyota. 2010 Toyota Camry SE 3.5-liter DOHC 24-valve dual VVT-i V6; 268 hp @ 6200 rpm/248 lb.-ft. @ 4700 rpm 2010 Ford Mustang V6 4.0L SOHC 12Valve V6 (245 cu. in.) 210hp @ 5300 240lb.-ft @ 3500 Obviously Toyota can use less displacement and produce staggering amounts more power and torque. Time to get with 1980 Ford. C'mon, anyone who buys a 6 cylinder Mustang is a dumb ass. A Mustang GT is where it's at to be competitive. |
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MusclesPremium
join:2003-08-09
The Gym
kudos:3 | Then why produce it?
The V8 is no better. 4.7L and 8 Cylinders to produce what Nissan, BMW and many other companies can do with under 4.0L and 6 cylinders? Poor excuse for a performance vehicle. |
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 MattBCOut of the gym injured for 12 months nowPremium
join:2006-02-01
Victoria, BC
kudos:1 | reply to Gbcue
said by Gbcue:What about the Mustang 4.0L V6 vs. a Toyota 3.5L V6? My STOCK Toyota RAV4 (3.5L V6) is faster than a 4.0L V6 Mustang off the line. And my 2.5L '09 Sentra SE-R Spec V could more than keep up and beat it as well, with 2 less cylinders.
Matt
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MattBCOut of the gym injured for 12 months nowPremium
join:2006-02-01
Victoria, BC
kudos:1 | reply to Muscles
said by Muscles:Then why produce it? The V8 is no better. 4.7L and 8 Cylinders to produce what Nissan, BMW and many other companies can do with under 4.0L and 6 cylinders? Poor excuse for a performance vehicle. But...but...but...
It sounds fast.
Matt
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