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pandora
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Holy cow, Netflix really does use a lot of bandwidth ...

I got a new TV, with integrated widgets. One of the widgets is for Netflix. I elected to give it the two week free trial.

Since starting with Netflix, my daily download has increased from 2.6 to over 11 GB (every day on top of prior usage). It doesn't help that we also just got an iPad and it's also in use.

I'm glad to be on business class service as the 250 GB cap shouldn't affect me. However when all my sets are able to run Netflix, I can easily see going well over 250 GB per month.

IMO Comcast was very forward looking in setting it's 250 GB residential cap. I'm glad to have moved to business. I wonder if Comcast will close the door to residential users and lock them into capped service?

Projecting our current use for the number of days we've had Netflix, assuming usage doesn't change much we will use between 300-350 GB total (inclusive of all use). We also download a bunch of HD stuff from DirecTV, and play a bit of WoW, however until Netflix, it didn't look like we'd be breaking 250 GB anytime soon.

I see over here - »Netflix bandwidth - Is 1GB/hr at HD accurate? that Netflix may consume 1 GB of download or more per hour watched.

Thank you Comcast for offering an out to the residential cap. I really didn't expect to need it so soon.
--
"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use."

crucialcolin

join:2004-09-12
Roseville, CA
Enjoy it while you can. I'm sure before long Comcast will implement caps on the buisness side as well. However I expect the way they would do is charger different rates for different caps and or overages.
--
»www.crucialcolin.com/ | »www.pcgeektech.com


pflog
Bueller? Bueller?
Premium,MVM
join:2001-09-01
El Dorado Hills, CA
kudos:3
reply to pandora
Hmm, let's see:

1 GB per hour
250 GB limit

You'd need to watch 250 hours of HD content per month, or over 8 hours per day. That's a lot for one person. Now I could see a family of 4, each watching an HD stream, but that's still basically a full length HD movie PER person PER day.

BTW, 1 GB/hr amounts to about 280 KB/s (~2.2 Mbit/s), so even 4 simultaneous streams is quite doable on even the 12 Mbit tier.

You're doing 11 GB/day which is 11 hours of HD programming. Wow! How many folks are in your household watching this stuff?

While the majority of people aren't going to come close to the cap, Comcast really should account for people with multiple bandwidth consumers in a household and at least provide a way for these customers using their service legitimately to make things right, instead of just cutting them off!
--
"Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it." -Ferris


camper
Premium
join:2010-03-21
Bethel, CT
kudos:1
Comcast is also in the content business.

It is beneficial for the content side of Comcast if the ISP side of Comcast makes it difficult to stream from other content providers.

One hand washes the other, so to speak.

pandora
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reply to pflog
said by pflog:

You'd need to watch 250 hours of HD content per month, or over 8 hours per day. That's a lot for one person. Now I could see a family of 4, each watching an HD stream, but that's still basically a full length HD movie PER person PER day.
You may want to check the link in the OP, the 2nd post in that linked thread points to - »blog.netflix.com/2008/11/encodin···ing.html

I'm not the best at the kbs -> GB total arithmetic, but according to the link above, the SD may be using 1 GB per hour. The HD seems to go up to 3800 kbps, when I multiply by 1000 to get bps then by 60 to get bps per minute, then again by 60 to get bps per hour, and divide by 1 billion, I get 13.68 GB per hour.

1 GB per hour for SD, and up to 13 GB per hour for HD, could easily be quite a lot of bandwidth without the need to watch TV 24 / 7.

As I mentioned we currently have 2 devices to easily view Netflix on, one is a very large 55" TV, the other is an iPad. I expect this Christmas to purchase a new 72" Netflix capable TV.

I moved last year to Comcast starter business as my expectation was that IPTV was inevitable. My surprise is the large numbers I'm seeing, and we are only starting. Currently our Vizio doesn't support Hulu or Youtube. If it did, we'd have even more use.

Based on my recent use experience, it seems to me that Comcast hit the nail on the head with the 250 GB residential limit. This is just about what a Netflix TV based family could expect to use on a single set if they watch any HD at all. At least based on my few days experience. Time will tell if the novelty wears off or if the catalog is too thin to sustain our interest.

My thread here, is just offer an observation about Netflix that was unexpected (by me) and to share it with the community.
--
"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use."


pflog
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join:2001-09-01
El Dorado Hills, CA
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There is no way Netflix is 13.68 GB per hour. That's 30 Mbps and more like bluray quality.

I don't use netflix so I have no idea how much it really uses/etc, but I do know that nearly 14 GB per hour is definitely not what netflix is streaming their HD content at.
--
"Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it." -Ferris


toolkit

join:2001-01-16
Crystal Lake, IL
reply to pandora
Pandora - I think you may be mixing bits/sec and bytes/sec. That would account for a 8x difference.

pandora
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said by toolkit:

Pandora - I think you may be mixing bits/sec and bytes/sec. That would account for a 8x difference.
Could be. Though regardless, my data consumption has skyrocketed since running Netflix. Much higher than I expected. It is 100x easier to watch on a TV than on our PC's, even the iPad isn't really great for viewing. The 55" set really does a wonderful job with Netflix.
--
"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use."

MADx

join:2005-05-25
Richmond, IN

3 edits
reply to pandora
I ran Netflix Roku box all night ( I couldn't sleep), I use at most about 3 gigs (Edit: a movie, sorry) and thats streaming all HD content. I watch about 4 HD quality movies. This how much I used so far of the 250 gig limit, and this is from surfing the net, down loading two games from Steam, and streaming Netflix movies.

April 2010 Data Usage Included Used Remaining
17%
As of 4/16/2010* 250GB 44GB 206GB

pandora
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said by MADx:

I ran Netflix Roku box all night ( I couldn't sleep), I use at most about 3 gigs and thats streaming all HD content. I watch about 4 HD quality movies. This how much I used so far of the 250 gig limit, and this is from surfing the net, down loading two games from Steam, and streaming Netflix movies.

April 2010 Data Usage Included Used Remaining
17%
As of 4/16/2010* 250GB 44GB 206GB
I wonder if the widget on my Vizio TV uses more bandwidth than a Roku?

Looking at an image of the Roku from the Netflix site, it doesn't appear to have an HDMI output. My Vizio is the VF552XVT which is true high definition. Could the Roku just play SD as HD? I no longer have access to the Comcast meter. My router (Tomato firmware) indicates I've used 140 GB so far this month.
--
"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use."

sparks

join:2001-07-08
Little Rock, AR
reply to pandora
My roku has hdmi output.
mine is the HD model I think they do make an sd model as well.

I talked to roku about carrying HULU but that said at this time the techs can't comment.

I guess its a licensing thing..I wish they had it.

MADx

join:2005-05-25
Richmond, IN
reply to pandora
Here is some info on the different brands of Roku boxes.

»www.roku.com/roku-products


camper
Premium
join:2010-03-21
Bethel, CT
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reply to sparks
My firewall takes an hourly snapshot of the inbound and outbound traffic to the cable modem. Here are a few hours of numbers, starting a little before I started to watch a Netflix HD movie, and ending a little after I finished watching the movie.

The columns are: Date Time Download Upload

12/07/2009 15:00 5,430,794,664 504,929,727
12/07/2009 16:00 5,434,347,962 510,692,464
12/07/2009 17:00 5,436,632,721 514,622,370
12/07/2009 18:00 5,522,585,157 517,434,426
12/07/2009 19:00 6,316,647,324 531,545,176
12/07/2009 20:00 8,180,218,568 558,908,736
12/07/2009 21:00 8,781,637,312 570,042,021
12/07/2009 22:00 8,787,641,690 572,039,505
12/07/2009 23:00 8,788,692,706 573,176,777


Looks like about 3GB for the movie.


camper
Premium
join:2010-03-21
Bethel, CT
kudos:1

btw, the movie ran for about one hour and 40 minutes....


gigasaurus

@comcast.net
reply to pandora
Nice to see actual numbers on this, I wouldn't be that much surprised to see the cap lowered or prices increased more than just the $2/mo increase coming (residential only). From everything I've been reading Cable TV subscribers are going down at a fairly steep rate, at the same time Internet subscribers are increasing. The more you use the more you are going to pay, it's just best for the investors.

Not to mention the fact that landlines are dying, more and more people are going to wireless only or cheaper voip (cheaper than CC). I feel like HSI will become the cash cow in the business.


nerdburg
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join:2009-08-20
Schuylkill Haven, PA
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HSI is already the cash cow of the biz.

muranternet

join:2009-10-19
Saint Paul, MN
Reviews:
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reply to pandora
There's a couple different ways you can get Netflix streams actually. Anything from Silverlight servers (Xbox, etc.) in my experience is super compressed (and looks like it) and consumes relatively little. Stuff on a set top Netflix 2.0 platform tends to eat as much as it can get its hands on, adaptive streaming-style. I have seen people on a 1.5Mbps DSL connection fail to stream SD content under these platforms due to constant buffering, but the Windows clients work fine (SIlverlight). I think I have clocked up to about 1.4GB/hr on a 2.0 stream to a set top.


MalibuMaxx
Premium
join:2007-02-06
Chesterton, IN
reply to pandora
I have 6 computers in the house, 1 xbox, 1 xbox360, 1 PS3, 2 Ipod touches, 1 PDA. I have Netflix and frequent HD videos and SD content. We have 5 ppl in the house. I just don't see using 250 GB. We average about 60 at most per month. Just saying... I could see if you can go over the 250 gb limit... but I know our family would have to try very hard... and me and my brother game over 15+ hours a week. As well as consume other content. I frequently download images and have my own hyper-v server... etc etc... its just seems hard... However I do use my works internet connection frequently for image downloads as well... sooo...

pandora
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Click for full size
Bandwidth consumption of my router, much is due to Netflix
said by MalibuMaxx:

I have 6 computers in the house, 1 xbox, 1 xbox360, 1 PS3, 2 Ipod touches, 1 PDA. I have Netflix and frequent HD videos and SD content. We have 5 ppl in the house. I just don't see using 250 GB. We average about 60 at most per month. Just saying... I could see if you can go over the 250 gb limit... but I know our family would have to try very hard... and me and my brother game over 15+ hours a week. As well as consume other content. I frequently download images and have my own hyper-v server... etc etc... its just seems hard... However I do use my works internet connection frequently for image downloads as well... sooo...
My spouse and I came home about 11 AM this morning on a day off. We had some errands to run earlier then watched some Netflix. The programs watched were "Sprawling From Grace: The Consequences of Suburbanization","Killer at Large: Why Obesity is America's Greatest Threat" and currently my wife is watching "The Six Wives of Henry VIII" (episode 3).

To the best of my understanding none of these are HD. There have been no other downloads (possibly automatic AV updates, only 2 PC's have been on, we don't have automatic email checking enabled, no browsers were open), but no other streaming and really until Henry started, I wasn't using my PC either.

The graph above indicates mostly Netflix usage for this afternoon.

My kids and I regularly play WoW, we download video via DirecTV often enough, some of it HD. We have 4 VOIP phone lines. Additionally we have 2 PS3's, 1 Xbox 360 and 2 Wii's. All the prior devices when used over a 24 hour period don't come close to the consumption of an hour or two of Netflix in my experience.
--
"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use."


MalibuMaxx
Premium
join:2007-02-06
Chesterton, IN
Yea, I know when I was watching LOST on Netflix and I was watching 7-8 hours a day... trying to catch up for the next season I was getting a good 10-15 GB consumption per day. Like I said I can see how its possible but you would really have to try is all I'm saying.

pandora
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said by MalibuMaxx:

Yea, I know when I was watching LOST on Netflix and I was watching 7-8 hours a day... trying to catch up for the next season I was getting a good 10-15 GB consumption per day. Like I said I can see how its possible but you would really have to try is all I'm saying.
Until we have 2, 3 or 4 sets running IPTV. Then it may not be as difficult.
--
"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use."


joetaxpayer
I'M Here Till Thursday

join:2001-09-07
Sudbury, MA

1 recommendation

reply to pandora
said by pandora:

You may want to check the link in the OP, the 2nd post in that linked thread points to - »blog.netflix.com/2008/11/encodin···ing.html

I'm not the best at the kbs -> GB total arithmetic, but according to the link above, the SD may be using 1 GB per hour. The HD seems to go up to 3800 kbps, when I multiply by 1000 to get bps then by 60 to get bps per minute, then again by 60 to get bps per hour, and divide by 1 billion, I get 13.68 GB per hour.
From that link, 2200kbps we agree is 1GB/hr. So 3800/2200 = 1.7GB/hr

I'm not judging the families with a TV habit. Just doing the math.


JohnInSJ
Premium
join:2003-09-22
Aptos, CA
said by joetaxpayer:

said by pandora:

You may want to check the link in the OP, the 2nd post in that linked thread points to - »blog.netflix.com/2008/11/encodin···ing.html

I'm not the best at the kbs -> GB total arithmetic, but according to the link above, the SD may be using 1 GB per hour. The HD seems to go up to 3800 kbps, when I multiply by 1000 to get bps then by 60 to get bps per minute, then again by 60 to get bps per hour, and divide by 1 billion, I get 13.68 GB per hour.
From that link, 2200kbps we agree is 1GB/hr. So 3800/2200 = 1.7GB/hr

I'm not judging the families with a TV habit. Just doing the math.
yeah, you will NOT burn more then 2GB/hour for "HD" from Netflix. Nor will you find much in the way of "HD" content, nor does it change much. So, in a few months your streaming use will drop to a trickle unless you love the movies of the 80s and 90s.

And really, how many times CAN you watch Weekend at Bernie's, anyway?

The OP might be thinking that Neflix is streaming raw Mpeg2 HD video streams - but of course they're not (nor would they stream over anything reliably that was under 22mbps down anyway.)
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pflog
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El Dorado Hills, CA
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I'm half tempted to sign up for netflix for a month, if only to do some benchmarking and packet capturing while it's streaming to profile just how much the average SD and HD netflix stream use.

I think netflix has a trial, but I'm kind of weary of giving out my cc number for a trial and canceling shortly thereafter, I've had problems in the past in situations like those with fine print.
--
"Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it." -Ferris

MADx

join:2005-05-25
Richmond, IN

2 edits
Netflix is very easy to cancel, just cancel it and it's done the same day. All you have to do is return any movies you may have within 7 days. It's pretty cut and dry, just cancel it before your monthly fee is due or your trial is over.


ssj4android
Redefining Reality

join:2002-04-14
Wyoming, MI
reply to pandora
I thought the maximum bitrate for the Roku HD streams was lower than the Xbox 360 HD streams due to the limited processing power of the Roku. I don't know about streams to TVs. Wiis can obviously only do SD, and the picture quality does seem lower than on the 360. Not sure if that's due to lower bitrate streams, less efficient codecs, or lack of upscaling though.

jjv124

join:2009-11-21
Hanover, PA
Deblin, you could get a prepaid cc and use that for the trial if you are sure you are going to only use it for a month. I figure if anything goes wrong it's not messing up most of your stuff for you.


JohnInSJ
Premium
join:2003-09-22
Aptos, CA
reply to ssj4android
The Wii can do 480p, which is as good as you'll get from a DVD. Quality is far better then a PC client (since netflix won't EVER do "HD" streaming via anything but a closed box)

720p content in mp4 encoding you download/stream from the web (geekbrief, techzilla, etc) will run into the low 1-2GB/hour of content, and I'd be shocked (based on watching netflix) if they even get anywhere near that.
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camper
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Bethel, CT
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reply to MalibuMaxx
Another data point. I just finished watching "Outsourced" via Netflix instant streaming. It is an HD movie. I took a snapshot of the traffic at the beginning and the end of the movie. The numbers are:

Date Time Downstream Upstream
Apr 18 13:36:22 4,562,200,162 562,646,050
Apr 18 14:00:01 5,326,113,698 574,868,378
Apr 18 15:00:01 7,120,817,370 604,758,131
Apr 18 15:20:57 7,633,710,744 613,650,259


Looks like about 3.1GB for the hour and 42 minute movie.


JohnInSJ
Premium
join:2003-09-22
Aptos, CA
said by camper:

Looks like about 3.1GB for the hour and 42 minute movie.
And google calls that...
(3.1 gigabytes) / (102 minutes) = 531.141438 kBps

which is....

((3.1 GB) / (102 minutes)) * (60 minutes) = 1.82352941 gigabytes

Per hour.

Or, pretty much in the old ball park.
--
My place : »www.schettino.us