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Re: ADSL-CO hearings *DAY4* The Oral Rebuttal said by InvalidError:said by CanadianRip:Its a straw man argument... less than 2% of households only have 1 line! Copper trunk lines probably don't have enough pairs to provide two lines to everyone. My city block has about 150 addresses on it and judging from the size of the trunk cable, I doubt it has more than 200ish pairs in it... enough to provide two lines to only 1/3rd of people. For a long time I had 6 lines in my house - I would say that most people in my 'hood' would have had 2+ lines.
Bell's already fond of saying that there isn't sufficient space in DSLAM #2 or RDSLAM #84 or whatever, in order to deny independents access to a CO or a RDSLAM - so what's going to be different going forward? Bell will just use the excuse (real or fabricated) to deny an independent ISP or CLEC or whatever acronym you care to use - access to a 2nd pair and then say "Since there aren't enough lines in your neighbourhood you MUST buy all your services from Bell on our nifty new LIFETIME contract. Early termination charges for this contract are your firstborn child + your net worth.".
Again, this is why the access regime must be clear from the outset.
a) If you have FTTH then competitive access to the FTTH is required - no excuses.
b) If the customer has two or more active copper pairs and wishes to subscribe to services from multiple suppliers, competitive access to the LL copper is required - no excuses.
c) If the customer has only one active copper pair and wishes to subscribe to services from multiple suppliers, then there is an absolute burden of proof on the ILEC to demonstrate that there are no extra available pairs. Furthermore, a waiting list of LL copper must be maintained, neighbourhood-by-neighbourhood, in order to ensure that prospective customers are offed the 2nd LL copper circuit. The ILEC may not contact the prospective customer directly - all contact with the prospective customer must be initiated and maintained by the competitor placing the circuit order. |
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| said by MaynardKrebs:For a long time I had 6 lines in my house - I would say that most people in my 'hood' would have had 2+ lines. Well, Bell just said their residential trunks are sized for an average of about 1.1 lines per address passed... so, that's no more than 10% of subscribers simultaneously having more than one line. |
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| said by InvalidError:said by MaynardKrebs:For a long time I had 6 lines in my house - I would say that most people in my 'hood' would have had 2+ lines. Well, Bell just said their residential trunks are sized for an average of about 1.1 lines per address passed... so, that's no more than 10% of subscribers simultaneously having more than one line. Drop cables are typically 2 or 3 pairs. Distribution cables are typically designed with slightly less than 2 pairs per home passed. The ratio on feeders is slightly less than that.
With the introduction of Remotes and the number of wireless only homes that have "cut the cord" there are plenty of spares in the OSP network. I've had discussions with our local access engineers, and they're quite shocked by incredibly low fill rates on their networks. They said gone are the days when they had to fight to find spare pairs for all the neighborhoods where people had second and third lines for the kids/internet dialup/fax/home office. |
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Jazdi
join:2009-07-06
Ottawa, ON | reply to InvalidError
said by InvalidError:said by MaynardKrebs:For a long time I had 6 lines in my house - I would say that most people in my 'hood' would have had 2+ lines. Well, Bell just said their residential trunks are sized for an average of about 1.1 lines per address passed... so, that's no more than 10% of subscribers simultaneously having more than one line. Don't forget that Bell has bleed roughly a quarter of their residential phone subscribers to the cablecos in the last five years... so I can see there being a lot of extra capacity now than there was 5 years ago. |
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| said by Jazdi:Don't forget that Bell has bleed roughly a quarter of their residential phone subscribers to the cablecos in the last five years... so I can see there being a lot of extra capacity now than there was 5 years ago. There may be more unused pairs but Bell still needs to save some to cover win-backs and take the place of its worse pairs instead of repairing them... F1s or F2s running out of usable pairs (for DSL) is not unheard of: you do see the occasional post about someone getting a Bell tech to try to find a cleaner pair to fix sync issues only to get told there are none to be found. |
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DavesnothereNo-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
join:2009-06-15
START&Cogeco
kudos:6
2 edits | said by InvalidError:There may be more unused pairs but Bell still needs to save some to cover win-backs and take the place of its worse pairs instead of repairing them... F1s or F2s running out of usable pairs (for DSL) is not unheard of: you do see the occasional post about someone getting a Bell tech to try to find a cleaner pair to fix sync issues only to get told there are none to be found. A lot of Bell's local ('final mile') infrastructure has been in place much longer than the Internet itself, and 'marginal' pairs are no doubt being discovered as late adopter peeps ask for DSL for the first time on some pairs which had been working acceptably for voice & dialup.
Related Anecdote : During/After the 1998 Ice Storm, Bell had to replace a significant part of above ground cabling from our CO, and peeps, some of whom were still on dialup, said that connections improved significantly in the affected 'hoods, and the local ISP referred to it all as a sort of 'mixed blessing' (the storm, that is). |
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| reply to InvalidError
said by InvalidError:said by Jazdi:Don't forget that Bell has bleed roughly a quarter of their residential phone subscribers to the cablecos in the last five years... so I can see there being a lot of extra capacity now than there was 5 years ago. There may be more unused pairs but Bell still needs to save some to cover win-backs and take the place of its worse pairs instead of repairing them... F1s or F2s running out of usable pairs (for DSL) is not unheard of: you do see the occasional post about someone getting a Bell tech to try to find a cleaner pair to fix sync issues only to get told there are none to be found. That happened to me, although a replacement was found. Lines do fail, it happens. |
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kovy
join:2009-03-26
kudos:8
1 edit | reply to Jazdi
said by Jazdi:said by InvalidError:said by MaynardKrebs:For a long time I had 6 lines in my house - I would say that most people in my 'hood' would have had 2+ lines. Well, Bell just said their residential trunks are sized for an average of about 1.1 lines per address passed... so, that's no more than 10% of subscribers simultaneously having more than one line. Don't forget that Bell has bleed roughly a quarter of their residential phone subscribers to the cablecos in the last five years... so I can see there being a lot of extra capacity now than there was 5 years ago. I'm sure there's alot that went back to Bell ... or any other phone provider used equipement of Bell, because of the quality is not as good... I know I am one of them. |
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CR123
join:2006-11-04
Vancouver, BC | reply to HeadSpinning
said by HeadSpinning:Drop cables are typically 2 or 3 pairs. Distribution cables are typically designed with slightly less than 2 pairs per home passed. The ratio on feeders is slightly less than that. Yes and no. New neighbourhoods (copper based) are being designated 1 pair per premise, +10-15%. |
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| said by CR123:said by HeadSpinning:Drop cables are typically 2 or 3 pairs. Distribution cables are typically designed with slightly less than 2 pairs per home passed. The ratio on feeders is slightly less than that. Yes and no. New neighbourhoods (copper based) are being designated 1 pair per premise premises, +10-15%. The older copper based neighborhoods were designed with more pairs, and they are in the majority. I fixed your post too.
»www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/premise.html |
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