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sotxbill

@swbell.net
reply to NormanS

Re: AT&T usage meter -- is yours as wildly inaccurate as mine?

your torrent is counting successful downloads and upload bits, and not all the retransmission due to problems on the internet. ATT measures what you spit out and take back in. They dont care that you had to retransmit 10gig over a month's due to an overloaded bit torrent server or routter congestion somewhere in asia..



NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:11
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC

And the router is only displaying packet total, but not the size of the packets. The whole thing is about an accurate accounting for billing purposes; but we are supposed to trust the biller that they are getting it right? Without any outside check on accuracy? I don't think so. Any metric used for billing purposes should be monitored by the same "Weights and Measures" agency as monitors deli/market scales and gasoline pumps. And we, the end users, need to know the metrics so we can make our own checks. No secrets, please, or we have no assurances that billing is accurate. And AT&T (formerly SBC) is notorious for billing errors in favor of, "The Company".
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum



wings10
I Am Legend
Premium
join:2004-06-09
South Elgin, IL

said by NormanS:

but we are supposed to trust the biller that they are getting it right?

We do the same for other services like,

ComEd, NICOR, City Water Etc Etc.
--
"The American Indians found out what happens when you don't control immigration."


ArgMeMatey

join:2001-08-09
Milwaukee, WI
kudos:2
Reviews:
·voip.ms
·AT&T Midwest
·Time Warner Cable

said by wings10:

said by NormanS:

but we are supposed to trust the biller that they are getting it right?

We do the same for other services like,

ComEd, NICOR, City Water Etc Etc.

At least here, these utilities are not truly "trusted". They are regulated. The meters are certified by manufacturers to be accurate within tolerances. The utility is required to maintain records of each meter's history. The public service commission can investigate complaints about meter accuracy.

As I am sure someone else has mentioned, the immediate remedy if one does not trust AT&T's metering is to stop being their customer.

(If and) When there is no alternative to metered internet, and as internet service is viewed more as a utility, the public (and voters) will start telling regulators and politicians that they want more government.
--
USNG:
16TDN2870
Find your USNG coordinates:
USNGWeb


wings10
I Am Legend
Premium
join:2004-06-09
South Elgin, IL

What we need is for each city, town, community to install their own WiFi network. Then it will be a utility like your Gas, Water & Electric. You create an account using your home address. Then the government can keep all the revenue HSI and they will have no need to tax you on the service.

Another revenue stream for them.

Of wait they still would tax you on it. Can't get away from tax.
--
"The American Indians found out what happens when you don't control immigration."



NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:11
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC
reply to wings10

said by wings10:

We do the same for other services like,

ComEd, NICOR, City Water Etc Etc.

Those are regulated public utilities. AT&T, Comcast, et. al. don't want to be regulated public utilities. When they become regulated public utilities, I can then pester the PUC when I think their billing is in error. As matters stand now, there is nobody to pester.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum


wings10
I Am Legend
Premium
join:2004-06-09
South Elgin, IL

said by NormanS:

Those are regulated public utilities. AT&T, Comcast, et. al. don't want to be regulated public utilities. When they become regulated public utilities, I can then pester the PUC when I think their billing is in error. As matters stand now, there is nobody to pester.

They should be. I am surprised ATT is not.
--
"The American Indians found out what happens when you don't control immigration."


NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:11
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC

The phone company is a regulated utility, but the DSL provider is not. Though, in California, I believe the PUC makes a feeble stab at regulation of DSL. Other states? Not so much; and AT&T wants it that way.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum



ArgMeMatey

join:2001-08-09
Milwaukee, WI
kudos:2
Reviews:
·voip.ms
·AT&T Midwest
·Time Warner Cable

said by NormanS:

Other states? Not so much; and AT&T wants it that way.

For example, the newly-appointed chair of the Wisconsin PSC is Phil Montgomery, who, while serving as one of AT&T's water boys, moonlighted as a state legislator.
»www.jsonline.com/business/118788659.html


wings10
I Am Legend
Premium
join:2004-06-09
South Elgin, IL
reply to NormanS

said by NormanS:

The phone company is a regulated utility, but the DSL provider is not. Though, in California, I believe the PUC makes a feeble stab at regulation of DSL. Other states? Not so much; and AT&T wants it that way.

So ATT HSI service is not?
--
"The American Indians found out what happens when you don't control immigration."


NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:11
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC

As I said, California PUC makes a feeble stab at it. But AT&T Yahoo! HSI is not, generally speaking, considered a regulated public utility. Easier to get voice service problems fixed (they have a specified time to get service restored, per PUC regulations) than DSL fixed (they can take their sweet time about it).
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum


gvd

join:2011-01-03
Skokie, IL
reply to NormanS

said by NormanS:

And the router is only displaying packet total, but not the size of the packets.

Please explain how you came up with this idea, because nothing I've ever seen says this.


NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:11
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC

Could you add a little more context? Or are you saying that all TCP/IP packets are of a uniform size, so I can assume that a common multiplier, such as 1500x, will suffice?
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum


gvd

join:2011-01-03
Skokie, IL

said by NormanS:

Could you add a little more context? Or are you saying that all TCP/IP packets are of a uniform size, so I can assume that a common multiplier, such as 1500x, will suffice?

What are you talking about? Tomato, DD-WRT, etc. measure input and output in bytes. Packet size is useless trivia when you're summing the number of bytes in each packet!


NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:11
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC

said by gvd:

said by NormanS:

Could you add a little more context? Or are you saying that all TCP/IP packets are of a uniform size, so I can assume that a common multiplier, such as 1500x, will suffice?

What are you talking about? Tomato, DD-WRT, etc. measure input and output in bytes. Packet size is useless trivia when you're summing the number of bytes in each packet!

Tomato? DD-WRT? I can't run them on my D-Link DIR-655!. All I get is how many packets are sent/received. In case you are not aware, not all routers have Tomato, or DD-WRT installed. Even those that are capable of flashing those firmwares; many don't bother. Which is why I asked for context. Until you brought up those custom router firmwares, there was no context to understand your statement.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

gvd

join:2011-01-03
Skokie, IL

said by NormanS:

Tomato? DD-WRT? I can't run them on my D-Link DIR-655!. All I get is how many packets are sent/received. In case you are not aware, not all routers have Tomato, or DD-WRT installed. Even those that are capable of flashing those firmwares; many don't bother. Which is why I asked for context. Until you brought up those custom router firmwares, there was no context to understand your statement.

In the very first post of the thread I said that I was running dd-wrt. Don't know where your problem lies.

There is no universal multiplier that anyone can give you that will magically convert packets to number of bytes. Packets can be anywhere from 1 to 1492 bytes, and the average is who knows because it varies explicitly based on your specific traffic.

The upshot is that your equipment doesn't have the ability to measure what you want it to measure. You either need to change the equipment, change the software that's running on it (if possible), or find some other way to measure your traffic. No-one said it'd be easy, and no-one owes you an easy solution except yourself.


NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:11
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC

said by gvd:

In the very first post of the thread I said that I was running dd-wrt. Don't know where your problem lies.

Probably in the fact that I was replying to 'sotxbill', who was commenting on my comment about my rig, and what it was measuring.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum


ArcFault

@sbcglobal.net

Mine is completely broken this week - it appears that no data has accumulated for two weeks or something is otherwise wrong with the meter.

Calling AT&T and speaking to several people left me with a few very weird conversations about the future of the metering, and I'm really hesitant to post the things I heard AT&T reps say because some of the stuff was pretty out there. People are NOT happy with the caps or the metering.

I'm just going to send a polite certified letter to the OOP and see what (if anything) happens to fix my meter.