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openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2

2 recommendations

reply to FFH

Re: New law only guarantees voters get an OK BEFORE $ spent

Don't forget that the law stipulates that the telecommunications projects need to be funded and self-sufficient. Two things that governments at all levels should be required to do for all efforts.


hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

very true. Especially as a Gov't entity they do NOT pay taxes on anything and are NOT allowed to turn a profit. Also in most areas the cities OWN the poles that they CHARGE others to use but do NOT charge their own departments to use. NOT fair at all.



firephoto
We the people
Premium
join:2003-03-18
Brewster, WA

1 recommendation

said by hottboiinnc:

very true. Especially as a Gov't entity they do NOT pay taxes on anything and are NOT allowed to turn a profit. Also in most areas the cities OWN the poles that they CHARGE others to use but do NOT charge their own departments to use. NOT fair at all.

They're also the ones who paid for the existing poles and pay for the replacement of poles and pay for the overall maintenance of the poles...

... but yes, I guess they sure do get a very unfair of not having to pay for those poles (that they have actually paid for).
--
Say no to JAMS!


Noah Vail
Son made my Avatar
Premium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Bright House

2 recommendations

reply to hottboiinnc

said by hottboiinnc:

very true. Especially as a Gov't entity they do NOT pay taxes on anything and are NOT allowed to turn a profit. Also in most areas the cities OWN the poles that they CHARGE others to use but do NOT charge their own departments to use. NOT fair at all.

That almost makes sense, when you omit the bulk of the equation.

Taxes are paid - by citizens.
The benefits of a Muni service are reaped - by citizens.

I wonder why the core factor in the debate wasn't included in your rendition of it?

NV
--
Any Goal that is Driven by Animosity, is Empowered through Deceit.

hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

the benefits do NOT out way the costs of the build. Nor does EVERY citizen think its a benefit NOR will EVERY citizen paying use the network. Again why should 90year old grandparents have to pay for the network? They'll never use it; but yet they'll be required to pay for that network to get built and especially if it goes belly up. The network will NEVER turn a profit nor will it ever be able to keep up with user demand.


hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

1 recommendation

reply to firephoto

They do NOT pay for the poles now. The companies that have lines and other equipment on them PAY for those poles. So that's another expense that does give the cities something that they don't have to charge their customers for in the base price. They wanted to build out; they create a level playing field. It's time now the states start coming in and taking the ROW from more and more cities and leaving them at the State Level and charge EVERYONE a fair amount to use the poles.



Frank
is chilling
Premium
join:2000-11-03
somewhere
reply to hottboiinnc

said by hottboiinnc:

the benefits do NOT out way the costs of the build. Nor does EVERY citizen think its a benefit NOR will EVERY citizen paying use the network. Again why should 90year old grandparents have to pay for the network? They'll never use it; but yet they'll be required to pay for that network to get built and especially if it goes belly up. The network will NEVER turn a profit nor will it ever be able to keep up with user demand.

It's funny how the same arguments can be used against building and maintaining public parks.

Let me guess, you think all parks should be privately owned and charge admission to cover costs and create profits right?
--
At first I thought everyone on the highway was drunk but then I realized I was driving in Florida


Noah Vail
Son made my Avatar
Premium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Bright House
reply to hottboiinnc

said by hottboiinnc:

the benefits do NOT out way the costs of the build. Nor does EVERY citizen think its a benefit NOR will EVERY citizen paying use the network. Again why should 90year old grandparents have to pay for the network? They'll never use it; but yet they'll be required to pay for that network to get built and especially if it goes belly up. The network will NEVER turn a profit nor will it ever be able to keep up with user demand.

Which is why an informed citizenry should be given the opportunity to vote and reject/accept the project.

Why does the idea of an informed electorate choosing this future for themselves bother you?

NV
--
Any Goal that is Driven by Animosity, is Empowered through Deceit.


FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

1 edit

said by Noah Vail:

Which is why an informed citizenry should be given the opportunity to vote and reject/accept the project.

Why does the idea of an informed electorate choosing this future for themselves bother you?

Before this law was passed, the citizenry, informed or otherwise, had no say in the decision of starting a municipal broadband project. That decision was made by the local elected pol, or more likely the local party boss, looking to find jobs for his family and political supporters in a municipal broadband utility. At least with the new law the voters get to actually vote on whether a municipal broadband system is wanted or not.
--
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amdace
BOHICA

join:2001-02-02
Livonia, MI
reply to hottboiinnc

said by hottboiinnc:

Again why should 90year old grandparents have to pay for the network? They'll never use it; but yet they'll be required to pay...

I guess using that argument, I as a single person, that will never have children, shouldn't have to fund a school system I will never use through my property taxes.

JMccovery

join:2011-01-08
Mobile, AL
reply to hottboiinnc

But, don't those '90 year old Grandparents' already pay for things they don't use? For example, if they have copper phone service, they are subsidizing:
1. The costs of upgrading lines to allow higher DSL speeds or services similar to U-Verse
2. People who use the phone more than they do

If they have cable, they subsidize:
1. The costs of upgrading the network to allow more channels/higher internet speeds
2. People who use the service more than they do

Basically, if you pay any taxes, or pay for any service, you are indirectly paying for things that you don't/won't use.



Noah Vail
Son made my Avatar
Premium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Bright House

1 recommendation

reply to FFH

said by FFH:

Before this law was passed, the citizenry, informed or otherwise, had no say in the decision of starting a municipal broadband project. That decision was made by the local elected pol, or more likely the local party boss, looking to find jobs for his family and political supporters in a municipal broadband utility. At least with the new law the voters get to actually vote on whether a municipal broadband system is wanted or not.

In March 10, 1992, a ballot initiative was passed in the City of Morganton North Carolina; by a vote of 2777 to 1169.

It was organized in response to the abysmal service provided by TCI and directed the City to build the local cable system that is presently delivering their broadband.

A link to a site that tells of a NC Muni broadband project,
that was deployed over the objections of much/most of it's residents
would be helpful.

NV
--
Any Goal that is Driven by Animosity, is Empowered through Deceit.

Skippy25

join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO
reply to FFH

So when those local elected pols make the decisions you agree with it is OK that only those local elected pols make those decisions. But when it is something against you, you feel all citizens should have to decide that?

Lets make fair, fair. Put the just enacted law on the ballet and see if NC supports it in order for it to go into effect. If they approve it, then fine. If they don't, then it is removed from the books.