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static416

join:2007-01-26
Toronto, ON

Hurt Locker P2P Lawsuit Comes to Canada

Giest talks about it: »www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view ··· 999/125/

TorrentFreak too:
»torrentfreak.com/hurt-locker-law ··· -110909/

Scary stuff, the ISPs are just rolling over for this too from the sounds of it.

Time to fire up that VPN.
--
www.LaconicReply.com - Tech/photography/rant blog

static416

join:2007-01-26
Toronto, ON
These cases will be the litmus test for P2P law in Canada.

My guess is that major Canadian ISPs will be much more willing to roll over and identify IPs than the ISPs in the US were. With all the vertical integration going on in this country most ISPs are content owners and producers as well as bitching about *congestion* caused by P2P more than ISPs in the US, and so they have a doubly vested interest in terrorizing P2P users.

The only possible refuge here is the court system. If the courts rule that disclosing IPs is a privacy violation, or if they rule that an IP is insufficient to identify an individual, we'll be ok.

I am very very willing to contribute money to the legal funds of any defense against this crap.
--
www.LaconicReply.com - Tech/photography/rant blog

shepd

join:2004-01-17
Kitchener, ON
kudos:1
reply to static416
Your best way to put companies this stupid in a hurt locker is to stop supporting them. Do not watch or do anything to give money to any of the films on this page:

»www.imdb.com/company/co0179337/

Make sure anyone involved knows that if they work for Voltage Pictures their movie will never be enjoyed by anyone and that they may/may not get paid when Voltage Pictures goes bankrupt from the lack of income.

static416

join:2007-01-26
Toronto, ON
said by shepd:

Your best way to put companies this stupid in a hurt locker is to stop supporting them. Do not watch or do anything to give money to any of the films on this page:

»www.imdb.com/company/co0179337/

Make sure anyone involved knows that if they work for Voltage Pictures their movie will never be enjoyed by anyone and that they may/may not get paid when Voltage Pictures goes bankrupt from the lack of income.

Worst case scenario, I have no problem completely avoiding all copyright infringing consumption of video content. I still download stuff now, but I can't think of the last time I actually watched any of what I have. It just comes down automatically and I never bother looking at it.

There is far more than enough quality movies and video online that is legitimately free and produced by people who are both visionary in their craft and their business model. And I typically spend my time watching that stuff anyways. On top of being free, it's actually better content too.

If these dinosaur companies are that desperate to sue to the only people who actually watched their movie, then they can go screw themselves. I'll watch and support the content of people who embrace the future instead of trying to stop it.
--
www.LaconicReply.com - Tech/photography/rant blog

MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4
There's tons of expired copyright & public domain stuff at »www.archive.org/details/movies that's worth watching.


FiReSTaRT
Premium
join:2010-02-26
Canada
Also go to vodo.net as it has lots of interesting recent open shows and movies that you can legally torrent.

static416

join:2007-01-26
Toronto, ON
reply to static416
We need to establish a legal fund for the accused in these lawsuits. I think lots of people would be willing to contribute to the defense of the people targeted by these mafia-shakedown tactics.

I wonder if OpenMedia would be willing to act as the collector and publicist for this fund, and if Micheal Giest would be willing to act as council.

We have to do whatever we can to prevent these corporations from suing the pants off their own customers.
--
www.LaconicReply.com - Tech/photography/rant blog


El Quintron
I dunno, lemme check my trollodex
Premium
join:2008-04-28
Etobicoke, ON
kudos:4
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
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reply to static416
said by Michael Geist :
It now appears that the lawsuits are coming to Canada as the Federal Court of Canada has paved the way for the identification of subscribers at Bell Canada, Cogeco, and Videotron who are alleged to have copied the movie. Late last month the court ordered the three ISPs to disclose the names and addresses of subscribers linked to IP addresses alleged to have copied the movie. The ISPs were given two weeks to respond and are entitled to be reimbursed for their expenses.

If I'm understanding this correctly, only clients of some of the larger ISPs are affected?

Rogers, Shaw and wholesale aren't named, which is a little strange. It's like saying if I'm speeding in a Toyota I'm going to get a ticket but if I'm speeding in a Ford I won't.

On another tangent I'm curious to see what recourse affected ISP clients will have; I'd defend myself in court certainly, and I would certainly take my ISP to court if they handed over my IP.
--
I'm watching District 9 again, and I've come to realize something: Wikus's got it all wrong. If I were morphing into a 9 foot tall hyper-dextrous alien that can shoot lightning bolts and get high off cat food why would I ever want to become human again?

static416

join:2007-01-26
Toronto, ON
said by El Quintron:

If I'm understanding this correctly, only clients of some of the larger ISPs are affected?

Looks that way right now. But this might just be the first wave. Rogers, Shaw, Telus are probably next.

I imagine they might pass on wholesale, too small a target. Or maybe they'll use the Bell and Rogers DPI gear to identify wholesale customers. That would almost be a good thing, due the flagrant privacy violation that would create.

said by El Quintron:

On another tangent I'm curious to see what recourse affected ISP clients will have; I'd defend myself in court certainly, and I would certainly take my ISP to court if they handed over my IP.

If history is any example, they will try to get you to settle out of court for some mysterious amount of money on the condition you admit fault and don't talk about the deal. If you fight the case and go to court, they will drop the suit if it looks like you are winning (they've done this in the past) in order to avoid setting a negative precedent.

You'd then have to file and successfully win a counter-suit in order to actually establish legal precedent capable of protecting others. The whole time they'd be fighting hard, stalling, and trying to bribe you to stop to avoid the precedent.

Jammie Thomas is still fighting her suit and it's been like 10 years since Napster even existed.

In reality they are on very weak legal grounds here. An IP is not a person, and infringement of a single movie shouldn't cost the accused $10K. But they win because they have more money than the people they target, and the victims just settle out of court rather than fighting it.

It's not at all hyperbole to call it a mafia-style shakedown.
--
www.LaconicReply.com - Tech/photography/rant blog


Brantford

@primus.ca
reply to MaynardKrebs
said by MaynardKrebs:

There's tons of expired copyright & public domain stuff at »www.archive.org/details/movies that's worth watching.

Thank you for this link. I've bookmarked it.


El Quintron
I dunno, lemme check my trollodex
Premium
join:2008-04-28
Etobicoke, ON
kudos:4
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
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said by Brantford :

said by MaynardKrebs:

There's tons of expired copyright & public domain stuff at »www.archive.org/details/movies that's worth watching.

Thank you for this link. I've bookmarked it.

You should explore all of archive.org there's some amazing movies and music on there... all in the public domain or in the creative commons.
--
I'm watching District 9 again, and I've come to realize something: Wikus's got it all wrong. If I were morphing into a 9 foot tall hyper-dextrous alien that can shoot lightning bolts and get high off cat food why would I ever want to become human again?


Brantford

@primus.ca
reply to static416
said by static416:

But they win because they have more money than the people they target, and the victims just settle out of court rather than fighting it.

It's not at all hyperbole to call it a mafia-style shakedown.

In the US, you can win in court but still go bankrupt paying legal fees to defend yourself against a deep pockets corporation.

As I understand it, Canadian courts typically require the losing party in a court battle to pay court costs and the winner's legal expenses (which is very wise because it discourages frivolous lawsuits).

These copyright mobsters might find that they're stirring up a hornets' nest here.


Ott_Cable

@teksavvy.com
reply to El Quintron
>Rogers, Shaw and wholesale aren't named

Rogers throttles torrents 24/7. If I were a Rogers customer that got sue, I would use that fact as my defense for not having used torrent.

Also loser pays in Canada, so if there are enough innocent people that stands up to them and not settle, their law suits is going to cost them big time.


Brantford

@primus.ca
reply to El Quintron
said by El Quintron:

You should explore all of archive.org there's some amazing movies and music on there... all in the public domain or in the creative commons.

Thank you, I will. Thanks also to FiReSTaRT for the »vodo.net link which I have also bookmarked.


ekster
Hi there
Premium
join:2010-07-16
Lachine, QC
kudos:3
reply to static416
I'm sure there are going to be at least a couple of lawyers that will defend with the conditions of "If we lose, it's free, if we win, you spent 20 hours every day with me for the past 3 months, here's the bill" type of thing...


CanerisIlija

join:2011-01-19
reply to Ott_Cable
said by Ott_Cable :

Also loser pays in Canada, so if there are enough innocent people that stands up to them and not settle, their law suits is going to cost them big time.

While this might be true for now, remember that laws can change and people play golf, so don't bank on getting those legal fees back.
--
Ilija - Caneris Inc

jfmezei
Premium
join:2007-01-03
Pointe-Claire, QC
kudos:23
pirating exists because the industry refuses to provide affordable DRM-free content via internet and tries hard to protect legacy medium by sabotaging companies such as Netflix.

The legacy movie industry is like SCO. Instead of adapting, they are turning into an organisation who sole purpose is suing people.

If we had a government that protected our needs, it would reject the lawsuits with a "come back once you have DRM free movies at ffordable price where more than 75% of revenues go to the production company.

static416

join:2007-01-26
Toronto, ON
said by jfmezei:

pirating exists because the industry refuses to provide affordable DRM-free content via internet and tries hard to protect legacy medium by sabotaging companies such as Netflix.

Exactly. I wrote a blog post awhile ago about how piracy is really just a symptom of market failure, and shouldn't be heavily penalized. It's the consumer routing around a greedy and uncooperative corporation. And it's not even necessarily a net loss for the corporation. Even if one consumer doesn't pay for your product, if it's good, he'll tell his five friends, all of whom may buy instead of pirate. That's why Microsoft isn't too rigid about enforcing consumer copyright infringement. They'd rather have you using it for free and contributing to the Microsoft culture, than you switching to OSX or Linux.

If a corporation isn't willing to sell it's product in a fashion that the consumer wants, I don't think the consumer should be punished for finding an illegitimate method to get it that way. I'd pay for movies online if they would let me, but they won't, so I'll get them the only way I can. I'm not going to buy a TV and Bluray player just so I can watch one movie they way they want to sell it.

If you want to penalize me for not following all the rules, I guess that's ok if the fine is $50 for a $5 movie, but not $80,000/song like in the Jammie Thomas case. And there should be due process and law enforcement involved, not just one corporation giving another corporation all my info because my IP showed up somewhere.

Alas, the problem is that both of us are using a thing called logic to win this argument. And in our society arguments are won with money, power, and lawyers, not logic.
--
www.LaconicReply.com - Tech/photography/rant blog


TigerLord
For Value Received
Premium,Mod
join:2002-06-09
Canada
kudos:8
reply to static416
The movie was barely deserving of its Oscar nominations, let alone its trophies. The studio has lost its mind.

static416

join:2007-01-26
Toronto, ON
said by TigerLord:

The movie was barely deserving of its Oscar nominations, let alone its trophies. The studio has lost its mind.

Ironically, that's sort of why they are suing people. The producers are mad because it didn't make much money in theaters, but was pirated after the Oscars far more than some movies that already made money.

They feel that being an Oscar winner, they deserved higher revenue than they got for the movie. So now they are trying to get that revenue by suing the few people that DID choose to watch it.
--
www.LaconicReply.com - Tech/photography/rant blog


dillyhammer
START me up
Premium
join:2010-01-09
Scarborough, ON
kudos:10
Reviews:
·WIND Mobile
·Start Communicat..
reply to TigerLord
said by TigerLord:

The movie was barely deserving of its Oscar nominations, let alone its trophies. The studio has lost its mind.

Agreed. It was junk IMHO. I would have turned it off during opening credits if there were any. That said, Chariots of Fire was far worse and made way more money. So maybe they have a point. Not much ISO downloading going on in 1981.



Mike
--
AVP... UBB... which poop stinks less?


CanadianRip

join:2009-07-15
Oakville, ON
reply to static416
I'm going to incorporate and place my Internet connection under the corporate name.

I use an open wifi; and can't control what my connection gets used for when I'm not around the house. I constantly have people over that I share my wifi with, and overnight guests.

I'll limit the liability of having my Internet connection to the corporation.

MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4
said by CanadianRip:

I'm going to incorporate and place my Internet connection under the corporate name.

I'll limit the liability of having my Internet connection to the corporation.

Then have the shares of that company owned by another in Panama, which is in turn owned by one in the Netherlands Antillies, thence by one in the Cook Islands, and finally one in Lesotho controlled by a Nigerian Prince who would gladly share $23.5 Million USD with them if they would so kindly forward $100,000 to grease the palms of a petty bureaucrat so the funds can be released.

Just don't have the account paid from your credit card or your personal bank account.

funny0

join:2010-12-22
reply to static416
DONT PAY.
ever...costs them huge bucks to put you in a jail for it all.....
and every person they remove is a lost tax payer as well.

you still spend your cash in the economy and when you get removed.....it also puts more burden on debt ....

im gonna go download it 50 times and let them sue me....wheres the torrent that is getting people sued....HEY if the CRIA can not pay people for 40 years and settle for a 40th of the cost then whats the cost of a single cdr/dvdr and ill pay you that in 40years.

That would be what i'd say to the court and judge....

funny0

join:2010-12-22
reply to MaynardKrebs
said by MaynardKrebs:

said by CanadianRip:

I'm going to incorporate and place my Internet connection under the corporate name.

I'll limit the liability of having my Internet connection to the corporation.

Then have the shares of that company owned by another in Panama, which is in turn owned by one in the Netherlands Antillies, thence by one in the Cook Islands, and finally one in Lesotho controlled by a Nigerian Prince who would gladly share $23.5 Million USD with them if they would so kindly forward $100,000 to grease the palms of a petty bureaucrat so the funds can be released.

Just don't have the account paid from your credit card or your personal bank account.

do what Mulroney did you silly people up to swiss account then down to Lichtenstein in about 50000 dummy corporations out to Belize for money laundering and back to canada with jaffer and gurgis....OH wait did i just say that out loud....


El Quintron
I dunno, lemme check my trollodex
Premium
join:2008-04-28
Etobicoke, ON
kudos:4
Reviews:
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reply to TigerLord
said by TigerLord:

The movie was barely deserving of its Oscar nominations, let alone its trophies. The studio has lost its mind.

I know this was said when the lawsuits came to the US, but it bears repeating:

It's ironic that a movie where the protagonist frequently buys pirated DVDs as a way to connect with the locals is suing those who pirated the movie.

I guess the is still escaping the rights holders...
--
I'm watching District 9 again, and I've come to realize something: Wikus's got it all wrong. If I were morphing into a 9 foot tall hyper-dextrous alien that can shoot lightning bolts and get high off cat food why would I ever want to become human again?


neuromancer1

join:2007-01-22
York, ON
Reviews:
·VMedia
reply to shepd
said by shepd:

Your best way to put companies this stupid in a hurt locker is to stop supporting them. Do not watch or do anything to give money to any of the films on this page:

»www.imdb.com/company/co0179337/

Make sure anyone involved knows that if they work for Voltage Pictures their movie will never be enjoyed by anyone and that they may/may not get paid when Voltage Pictures goes bankrupt from the lack of income.

No actually the best way is to keep downloading there stuff and use Peerblock so they can go suck eggs.


Jeffer71

join:2008-09-13
Carrying Place, ON
Reviews:
·Acanac
said by neuromancer1:

said by shepd:

Your best way to put companies this stupid in a hurt locker is to stop supporting them. Do not watch or do anything to give money to any of the films on this page:

»www.imdb.com/company/co0179337/

Make sure anyone involved knows that if they work for Voltage Pictures their movie will never be enjoyed by anyone and that they may/may not get paid when Voltage Pictures goes bankrupt from the lack of income.

No actually the best way is to keep downloading there stuff and use Peerblock so they can go suck eggs.

Newsgroups, a Vpn and Unlimited Downloading on Bhells network for the win!


round 2

@videotron.ca
Via copyright lawyer Howard Knopf

Hurt Locker Lawsuits About to Detonate in Canada?
»excesscopyright.blogspot.com/201 ··· ate.html

Hurt Locker Lawsuits About to Detonate in Canada?
Michael Geist reports that the Hurt Locker litigation campaign is being imported into Canada.

An order to disclose the identities behind a list of IP addresses furnished by Volate Pictures LCC has been obtained.

It appears that the three ISPs involved, namely Bell Canada, Cogeco Câble inc. et Vidéotron s.e.n.c., did nothing to protest look out for their customers' privacy rights. They did not even appear on the motion.

Indeed, in the original BMG litigation, in which I was involved, Bell and Rogers did virtually nothing to protect their customers. They sent in prominent counsel to watch the proceedings, and to look out for the ISPs' interests. Vidéotron was actually on the side of the record companies. It was probably no coincidence that, even then, these companies had substantial IP ownership interests.

The ISP fight was led - and very capabaly so - by counsel for Shaw and Telus. CIPPIC, the intervener, for whom I acted as lead counsel, along with Alex Cameron who handled the privacy aspect, fought very hard to ensure that there was an adequate copyright basis and sufficient privacy guarantees in place. This would have required the record companies to provide sufficient, reliable non-hearsay evidence, They were apparently unable or unwilling to do so and the litigation faded away.

There are both substantive and procedural arguments that could have and perhaps should have been made in the current case by the ISPs. As the American courts are beginning to realize, mass law suits - especially when bittorent and other more complex technologies than old fashioned Napster era file sharing technologies are involved - present some very complicated issues and should not be allowed to proceed en masse without adequate scrutiny. Indeed, when they are fought, they tend to stall and collapse. We have seen this not only in the USA but in England.

Hopefully, someone will be keeping an eye out for the potential defendants in Canada this time around to ensure that their privacy rights are protected and that the Copyright Act is correctly applied.


Seems the ISP's in question have no problem handing over peoples info as long as they get paid to do it.

Cogeco (AKA: The company that said All our customer are thieves)

Bell (AKA: The company that hate their customers more than we hate them)

And of course the worse of them all, Videotron (AKA: The company that said suing our customers is a good way to monetize)

justsomeguy8

join:2007-10-08
N5M3Z3
reply to static416
Ya, I hope everyone switches over to 1-way systems in which no uploading is ever involved.

Anyone who is still using torrents is just asking for trouble.