dslreports logo
site
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc

spacer




how-to block ads


Search Topic:
uniqs
3751
share rss forum feed


MattTri

@rogers.com

[Extreme Plus] Seemingly still shaping torrent downloads

Have switched to rogers after a disappointing bout of service with Acanac. However I still have both services at this time. Am seeing the following behaviour....

Downloading a torrent over the Rogers connection (Extreme Plus) and getting consistently between 10-60Kb down. Switch my connection to Acanac (5mb DSL) and getting consistently between 150-400Kb down.

Now I was under the impression that Rogers doesn't traffic shape download anymore. However, on the surface this doesn't seem to be the case.

Is there something I'm missing?


OldManRiver

join:2010-10-03
Nepean, ON

I don't know where you got the impression Rogers is done with throttling torrents. This simply is not the case.

Still crushing them as far as I can tell.

IIRC there was a recent North American throttling test and Rogers has the dubious distinction of being the most heavy handed throttling ISP in all of North America.

So what you are missing is that nothing has changed. Rogers is the worse throttler in North America.

You should have simply asked here before switching.



MattTri

@rogers.com

Guess I need to make a CRTC complaint then? Their traffic management policy explicitly states that they're not doing any throttling on downloads.


OldManRiver

join:2010-10-03
Nepean, ON

They could have all kinds of strategies to accomplish the same thing, without technically limiting download speed.

Limiting your number of open connections, messing with your ack packets, limiting upload...

The best bet for everyone is simply stay away from Rogers and warn your friends to do the same.


Rogers_Chris

join:2010-12-15
Toronto, ON
reply to MattTri

We don't manage any download traffic. We manage P2P upstream traffic. I'll let the community explain how P2P filesharing (Bittorrent) works.

You can read our network management policy here: »www.rogers.com/web/content/netwo···nagement



MattTri

@rogers.com

Weird. I just have a hard time wrapping my head around why 40 megabit service with no download shaping gets 1/10th the speed of 5 megabit service with no shaping.

Guess there's some gunk in the tubes.


heyyoudvd

join:2011-01-10
reply to Rogers_Chris

You guys can repeat that until you're blue in the face but the fact remains that those of us with Rogers KNOW that our P2P downloads are throttled into oblivion.

Like OldManRiver said, maybe you use all sorts of insidious techniques whereby you accomplish this without technically limiting download speeds, but that's irrelevant, as the end result for the customer is the same.

The fact is that I'm paying for 32 megabit download speeds and I'm lucky if I receive 3% of that , so all the "we don't throttle downloads!" claims in the world aren't going to change what countless people like myself have been witnessing with our very own eyes for a long time now. So please stop blowing smoke up our asses.


OldManRiver

join:2010-10-03
Nepean, ON

Exactly. Why even do business with a company that will outright lie to customers and hide behind legalese and trickery to avoid being charged with it.

Even Bell is more honest with it's customers than Rogers, and Bell will soon be ending P2P throttling.

Just tell everyone to stay away. Heck if I was the OP, I would look into your cancellation fee, and remaining with your previous ISP until you better research alternatives.



sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:13
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·WIND Mobile
reply to MattTri

Technically Rogers doesn't do anything with the downstream path, so they can (unfortunately) make the claim that they don't traffic shape.

BUT, the upstream is messed up by dropping packets when they sense Torrent traffic on your connection. Some of the packets dropped are "ACK" packets in response to the downloaded packets. So, since the sending Torrent seeds don't get the acks back, they assume the packets weren't sent, so they send them again *after a timeout* ... so depending on how many ack packets get hit on the upstream path, the torrent can be really slow. This is why there is such variation on the speed of the download too.

So, technically speaking it's your seeds who are throttling the connection, not Rogers ... the fact that it happens as collateral damage to Rogers upstream throttling is irrelevent as far as they (and the CRTC) are concerned.

Collateral damage to games is supposedly in the CRTC's "enforcement" division ... but they so far have done diddley squat!

It was Bell who have apparently stopped thottling


Capt Marvel

join:2010-03-03
Canada

For the last 2 1/2 weeks, I've found a dramatic increase in download speeds. 1 mb/s to 800 kb/s sustained over a 4 Gb download! Never usually see over 200 kb/s for bittorrent. Something's happened at Rogers. It's why I've googled throttling forums to see if there was any announcements recently.



Ree

@rogers.com
reply to sbrook

said by sbrook:

BUT, the upstream is messed up by dropping packets when they sense Torrent traffic on your connection. Some of the packets dropped are "ACK" packets in response to the downloaded packets. So, since the sending Torrent seeds don't get the acks back, they assume the packets weren't sent, so they send them again *after a timeout* ... so depending on how many ack packets get hit on the upstream path, the torrent can be really slow. This is why there is such variation on the speed of the download too.

Thanks for the explanation, that makes a lot of sense now.

So what kind of upstream is required for ACK packets on a 32mbit download? Rogers says they throttle to 80kbit, so I guess that's not enough?

(I know that seeding counts against that 80kbit, but assume a hypothetical situation where nobody is downloading from you.)

bt

join:2009-02-26
canada
kudos:1

said by Ree :

So what kind of upstream is required for ACK packets on a 32mbit download? Rogers says they throttle to 80kbit, so I guess that's not enough?

Don't forget about the overhead.

I rarely have downstream speed issues with torrents (rarely enough that it's probably those specific torrents, not my connection), even without capping my upload speeds (which usually stabilize around the definitely-throttled speeds of 8kB/s).

Do you have number of connection limits set?


sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:13
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·WIND Mobile
reply to Ree

It's not a case of throttling to 80 kbits/sec ... that's the result of the upstream throttling, not what they do per se. The more packets they drop, the more the upload and download appears throttled.

If you're not having anyone download from you, then in all probability you should see little impact.

There's no "measurable" calculation, since it depends on how the hosts and paths treat the dropped packets.

Certainly limiting the number of people who can download from you can improve the situation.


Labonza

join:2008-08-20
Ottawa, ON
reply to Capt Marvel

That's because they've moved the throttling box from your area to mine I'm guessing. They do that from time to time.

I've been with Rogers since 2003 and am up on all their tricks.Why, you ask? Because I dont torrent much.But I've been running torrents the past few days and the throttling is the worst I've seen in ages.

Sorry, I dont buy the "upstream only" claim. The patterns are too consistent ( up and down) when they've got the throttling cranked up.

Anyone who bought a fast Rogers package for torrenting can expect that 50% of the time, you will get the same speeds as if you were on Lite.It varies from area to area, but they'll hammer you eventually.


Ree

join:2007-04-29
h0h0h0
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..
reply to bt

said by bt:

Do you have number of connection limits set?

I think I did, but I gave up on bittorrent and switched to usenet, so I'm not 100% sure.

Whatever my settings were, when I was with Teksavvy I was able to get a consistent 500kB/s, but with Rogers I'm lucky to hit 200kB/s.

OldManRiver

join:2010-10-03
Nepean, ON

2 edits
reply to Labonza

said by Labonza:

That's because they've moved the throttling box from your area to mine I'm guessing. They do that from time to time.

I've been with Rogers since 2003 and am up on all their tricks.

Exactly. I have experienced a month or two at a time where there was no throttle box on my connection. And it is ridiculously great, but it mainly serves to highlight how much Rogers interferes with our connections.

I went from Bell DSL to third party DSL, then Bell started throttling third part ISPs, so I ditched everything Bell in protest and switched to Rogers.

But Rogers is so non competitive now and Teksavvy is in my area, so I am ditching everything Rogers and switching to Teksavvy.

TV(done): OTA HDTV reception is awesome. No more cable bills.

Phone(done): Vonage for ~$20/month covers my needs and that includes callerId, Voicemail etc..

Internet(pending): Teksavvy will give me more upload/download speed, 5 times the bandwidth cap, for less money.

I think that is the best voting I can do with my wallet. Complaining is pointless.

Simply stop buying their services. When they bottom line gets impacted enough they will be forced to do better.

The great thing about Rogers poor customer treatment is that it is a wake-up call for you to look around, and find much better deals that are out there. If Rogers/Bell had been even half-ways decent, I never would have switched and my monthly telecom bills would be about double their new rates.

So thank you Bell/Rogers duopoly for constantly fighting me, your customer, and forcing me to move on to better alternatives.