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sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:13
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·WIND Mobile
reply to MattTri

Re: [Extreme Plus] Seemingly still shaping torrent downloads

Technically Rogers doesn't do anything with the downstream path, so they can (unfortunately) make the claim that they don't traffic shape.

BUT, the upstream is messed up by dropping packets when they sense Torrent traffic on your connection. Some of the packets dropped are "ACK" packets in response to the downloaded packets. So, since the sending Torrent seeds don't get the acks back, they assume the packets weren't sent, so they send them again *after a timeout* ... so depending on how many ack packets get hit on the upstream path, the torrent can be really slow. This is why there is such variation on the speed of the download too.

So, technically speaking it's your seeds who are throttling the connection, not Rogers ... the fact that it happens as collateral damage to Rogers upstream throttling is irrelevent as far as they (and the CRTC) are concerned.

Collateral damage to games is supposedly in the CRTC's "enforcement" division ... but they so far have done diddley squat!

It was Bell who have apparently stopped thottling

Capt Marvel

join:2010-03-03
Canada
For the last 2 1/2 weeks, I've found a dramatic increase in download speeds. 1 mb/s to 800 kb/s sustained over a 4 Gb download! Never usually see over 200 kb/s for bittorrent. Something's happened at Rogers. It's why I've googled throttling forums to see if there was any announcements recently.


Ree

@rogers.com
reply to sbrook
said by sbrook:

BUT, the upstream is messed up by dropping packets when they sense Torrent traffic on your connection. Some of the packets dropped are "ACK" packets in response to the downloaded packets. So, since the sending Torrent seeds don't get the acks back, they assume the packets weren't sent, so they send them again *after a timeout* ... so depending on how many ack packets get hit on the upstream path, the torrent can be really slow. This is why there is such variation on the speed of the download too.

Thanks for the explanation, that makes a lot of sense now.

So what kind of upstream is required for ACK packets on a 32mbit download? Rogers says they throttle to 80kbit, so I guess that's not enough?

(I know that seeding counts against that 80kbit, but assume a hypothetical situation where nobody is downloading from you.)

bt

join:2009-02-26
canada
kudos:1
said by Ree :

So what kind of upstream is required for ACK packets on a 32mbit download? Rogers says they throttle to 80kbit, so I guess that's not enough?

Don't forget about the overhead.

I rarely have downstream speed issues with torrents (rarely enough that it's probably those specific torrents, not my connection), even without capping my upload speeds (which usually stabilize around the definitely-throttled speeds of 8kB/s).

Do you have number of connection limits set?


sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:13
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·WIND Mobile
reply to Ree
It's not a case of throttling to 80 kbits/sec ... that's the result of the upstream throttling, not what they do per se. The more packets they drop, the more the upload and download appears throttled.

If you're not having anyone download from you, then in all probability you should see little impact.

There's no "measurable" calculation, since it depends on how the hosts and paths treat the dropped packets.

Certainly limiting the number of people who can download from you can improve the situation.

Labonza

join:2008-08-20
Ottawa, ON
reply to Capt Marvel
That's because they've moved the throttling box from your area to mine I'm guessing. They do that from time to time.

I've been with Rogers since 2003 and am up on all their tricks.Why, you ask? Because I dont torrent much.But I've been running torrents the past few days and the throttling is the worst I've seen in ages.

Sorry, I dont buy the "upstream only" claim. The patterns are too consistent ( up and down) when they've got the throttling cranked up.

Anyone who bought a fast Rogers package for torrenting can expect that 50% of the time, you will get the same speeds as if you were on Lite.It varies from area to area, but they'll hammer you eventually.

Ree

join:2007-04-29
h0h0h0
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..
reply to bt
said by bt:

Do you have number of connection limits set?

I think I did, but I gave up on bittorrent and switched to usenet, so I'm not 100% sure.

Whatever my settings were, when I was with Teksavvy I was able to get a consistent 500kB/s, but with Rogers I'm lucky to hit 200kB/s.

OldManRiver

join:2010-10-03
Nepean, ON

2 edits
reply to Labonza
said by Labonza:

That's because they've moved the throttling box from your area to mine I'm guessing. They do that from time to time.

I've been with Rogers since 2003 and am up on all their tricks.

Exactly. I have experienced a month or two at a time where there was no throttle box on my connection. And it is ridiculously great, but it mainly serves to highlight how much Rogers interferes with our connections.

I went from Bell DSL to third party DSL, then Bell started throttling third part ISPs, so I ditched everything Bell in protest and switched to Rogers.

But Rogers is so non competitive now and Teksavvy is in my area, so I am ditching everything Rogers and switching to Teksavvy.

TV(done): OTA HDTV reception is awesome. No more cable bills.

Phone(done): Vonage for ~$20/month covers my needs and that includes callerId, Voicemail etc..

Internet(pending): Teksavvy will give me more upload/download speed, 5 times the bandwidth cap, for less money.

I think that is the best voting I can do with my wallet. Complaining is pointless.

Simply stop buying their services. When they bottom line gets impacted enough they will be forced to do better.

The great thing about Rogers poor customer treatment is that it is a wake-up call for you to look around, and find much better deals that are out there. If Rogers/Bell had been even half-ways decent, I never would have switched and my monthly telecom bills would be about double their new rates.

So thank you Bell/Rogers duopoly for constantly fighting me, your customer, and forcing me to move on to better alternatives.