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Arthritis

join:2011-10-20
Canada
reply to tuladrin

Re: [Raiding] LFR asshattery

I can see your point, and I agree with you, this is part of the problem.

And I fully admit it's feels like being a douche, but as a guild we don't have too many alternatives.

The easiest solution is to make 10 and 25 man raid lockouts separate (again), and really we'd have no need to run LFR at all. That's the way it used to be.

But given this scenario, and this is in no way meant to be disrespectful, people in your category would have a pretty hard time clearing LFR at all....so would that be fair to you?

It's a very self serving viewpoint to be sure, and doesn't justify what we do at all. But for the odd token you want that statistically you have a harder time getting, your percentage of getting gear and an upgrade is actually higher than in a 100% pug group.

For every competent player like yourself in your situation, there's 4 -5 others being carried each week in LFR. A group made up 100% of these types of players usually results into a bone graveyard. And I'm sure with your many alts if you que later in the week, you've zoned into a LFR group only to see the dead bodies / bones on the floor. That's most likely not going to happen in my group, and you're chance at getting an upgrade is higher as well. Is it fair? Nope. Is it the fairest solution given the parameters we face as a guild, I think the answer is yes.


Ramikor

@ultzindustries.com
Tuladrin and Arthritis,

FWIW, here's my two cents:

The loot rules are the loot rules. Whether the raid is totally random, or there's a big guild contingent, every individual that gets to roll has the same chance to win any particular drop. On that level, it does not matter whether it is a guild group, or totally random.

There is a perception that a guild group somehow places the individual at a disadvantage. The reasoning goes that the guild group can all roll need, whether they need it or not, and if one of them gets it, they give it to the guildie that actually needs it. There is something to this perception because being able to trade a drop item allows this to happen. However, it presumes that non-guildies are not rolling need if they don't actually need the item, which I do not think is necessarily a good presumption. This perception could be cured by making the item non-tradable, which would remove the incentive for a guild group to roll need as a group. Then everyone would just have to win outright.

That said, the fact is that a guild group, even one that is carrying its weaker members, is likely to be more coherent and be able to carry weaker individual players than a totally random group. An individual player that gets into a guild lfr benefits from the guild's coherence and the likelihood that the guild actually knows the fight and will make the kills. Being unable to trade the item removes one incentive to run as a guild group.

I think it comes down to pick your poison. You can prevent loot trades, which makes everyone have to win outright; or you can allow loot trades, which encourages guild runs (and benefits individual players incidentally), but also encourages guild rolling.

On balance, I think allowing loot trades is better. LFR is intended to give non-raiders a look at the content. They get a better look if they can do it with people who know that they're doing and can execute well. My experience is that all random LFRs have a high rate of wipage, and usually requires several mass quit / replacements to get a viable group. Also, and obviously, the individual player doesn't get a shot at a loot drop if the group can't kill the boss either.