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NetFixer
Snarl For The Camera Please
Premium
join:2004-06-24
The Boro
Reviews:
·Cingular Wireless
·Comcast Business..
·Vonage
·Comcast

1 recommendation

reply to anony mous

Re: [IPv6] Benefits of IPv6

said by anony mous :

Losing NAT? I'm still confused about the whole thing. I get the basically unlimited addresses with ipv6, but how will it effect home networks? I have 3 desktops and 2 laptops in my household. Will they all get their own personal ipv6 address? (and will it be public?) Not 1 public, and 5 private as with ipv4? Will you have to pay for each address? If not, would you just get 1 ipv6? Not sure how it all will play out...Will my home ipv6 capable router provide the necessary addresses for my home LAN? Very confused...

Comcast's initial IPv6 deployment is only for users with a single PC connected to a standard (IPv6 compatible) cable modem. Those connections get a "/l28" IPv6 address (one device only). I don't think that Comcast has yet decided what to do about the cable gateway routers that they supply, much less how to handle customer owned routers. I suspect that initially, only Comcast supplied cable gateway routers will get a "/64" or "/48" multi IPv6 address assignment.

Here is a link that might help to explain the IPv4 vs IPv6 addressing »www.ripe.net/internet-coordinati···dressing

As for price increases for "/64" or "/48" assignments, only Comcast management knows the answer to that.
--
History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
-- Dwight D. Eisenhower


whfsdude
Premium
join:2003-04-05
Washington, DC
Reviews:
·Comcast

1 recommendation

said by NetFixer:

Comcast's initial IPv6 deployment is only for users with a single PC connected to a standard (IPv6 compatible) cable modem. Those connections get a "/l28" IPv6 address (one device only). I don't think that Comcast has yet decided what to do about the cable gateway routers that they supply, much less how to handle customer owned routers.

Actually it's my understanding that they will be using DHCPv6-PD. So the /128 rollout is really just the first step.

Each customer will get a /127 point-to-point link and then DHCPv6-PD will pass the router a routed block.

Hence why they're supporting just one PC first is because they haven't started doing DHCPv6-PD


NetFixer
Snarl For The Camera Please
Premium
join:2004-06-24
The Boro
Reviews:
·Cingular Wireless
·Comcast Business..
·Vonage
·Comcast

1 recommendation

said by whfsdude:

said by NetFixer:

Comcast's initial IPv6 deployment is only for users with a single PC connected to a standard (IPv6 compatible) cable modem. Those connections get a "/l28" IPv6 address (one device only). I don't think that Comcast has yet decided what to do about the cable gateway routers that they supply, much less how to handle customer owned routers.

Actually it's my understanding that they will be using DHCPv6-PD. So the /128 rollout is really just the first step...

 
I thought that was what I said :

Comcast's initial IPv6 deployment...

said by The American Heritage® Dictionary :
initial

initial (î-nîsh´el) adjective
1. Of, relating to, or occurring at the beginning; first: took the initial step toward reconciliation.

--
History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
-- Dwight D. Eisenhower


camper
Premium
join:2010-03-21
Bethel, CT
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to NetFixer

said by NetFixer:

...As for price increases for "/64" or "/48" assignments, only Comcast management knows the answer to that.

I'd be willing to predict that there will be a price increase.

Comcast has never seen an excuse for a price increase that it didn't like.


PGHammer

join:2003-06-09
Accokeek, MD

1 recommendation

It will depend on if the routing feature for cable modems requires new cable modem hardware - if it does, that price will almost certainly get passed along to customers.

However, cable modems (except for really old ones) aren't the biggest problem with IPv6; the two biggest issues are older routers (some are actually IPv6-hostile; UNfortunately, Comcast actually has a few of these, like the NETGEAR WNR3500 in 1VCNAS trim) and gaming consoles with IPv6-hostile firmware. While I don't own a console, I do, unfortunately, have a WNR3500-1VCNAS that I will certainly have to replace.

There are three routers (all from NETGEAR) that are good candidates (amazingly, all are, in fact, overkill - they have features that I can't - and won't - ever use).

1. WNDR3700 (closeout) - Dual-band, gigabit, and the lowest-priced of the three - it's also Netgear's second-least-expensive IPv6-ready router (only the WNR3500L/3500V2, where available, is cheaper).

2. WNDR4000 - The successor to the WNDR3700. In addition to N300+300, it also supports N450+N300; otherwise, it's the same feature set (down to the USB port for storage or printing) as the WNDR3700.

3. WNDR4500 - The new flagship of the NETGEAR "prosumer" line. It adds N450+N450 and a second USB port to the WNDR4000 (along with $40 to the price at BB).

The WNDR3700 also offers the option of third-party firmware (both v1 and v2 are supported by DD-WRT/OpenWRT/X-WRT) in addition to the OOTB support with current factory firmware.



owlyn
Premium,MVM
join:2004-06-05
Newtown, PA

1 recommendation

The Netgear WNDR3400 is now IPV6 compatible (recent firmware update). It is basically the same router as the WNDR3700, but without gigabit support.



PGHammer

join:2003-06-09
Accokeek, MD

1 recommendation

reply to camper

It costs Comcast no more to issue a /64 than a /48 - if anything, the headaches *increase* when fine-graining it down to a /48. (That isn't theory - Hurricane Electric has retained their /64 blocks for free via their tunnelbroker.net portal; SixxS has done the same.) Never mind that even a /48 couldn't be exhausted if every appliance in Bill and Melinda's mansion had their own IP.



camper
Premium
join:2010-03-21
Bethel, CT
kudos:1

It is less a matter of "costing more" and more a matter of "what the market will allow Comcast to charge".

If Comcast thinks they can get away with higher charges, then Comcast will raise the price. It is as simple as that.



whfsdude
Premium
join:2003-04-05
Washington, DC
Reviews:
·Comcast

1 recommendation

said by camper:

It is less a matter of "costing more" and more a matter of "what the market will allow Comcast to charge".

With the lack of NAT, the market won't tolerate being charged extra for a /64.

earletp

join:2004-02-03
PDX

1 recommendation

reply to camper

Here's what they've (Comcast) stated for now...

»Re: [IPv6] Deployment of IPv6 Begins

said by jlivingood:

said by magamiako:

#1. What's the plan as far as prefixes go, ultimately? Will residential customers be able to pick up larger than a /64 for their own purposes? A /60? /56? /48?

Per »blog.comcast.com/2011/11/ipv6-de···ogy.html we will support shorter prefixes eventually in 2012. But initially it will be just a /64. Exact timing in 2012 is TBD. We'll announce more details on this when we begin deployments supporting home gateway devices.

said by magamiako:

#2. Are there any plans on charging per individual devices found with globally routable IPv6 addresses on a customer's network?

#2 sounds far-fetched to me but it was a question I've already been asked by a few people and would love an official answer to.

Not at this time. IMO this would discourage demand for IPv6 and this in turn means less content on IPv6 (that's the opposite of what we want - which is pervasive IPv6).

With that answer, It would not surprise me to find that a /64 would be part of your base tier, but if you wanted a shorter prefix there would be a nominal charge, following the pattern of faster speeds for an additional premium.
Only time will tell.


DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3

2 recommendations

reply to whfsdude

I expect the following
/64's for all
/48's for business class (to cover the ones that currently pay for statics)

my current setup is a Hurricane Electric tunnel then with my /48 split into multiple /64's (one per vlan)

it works quite well as I can use the block inbetween 48 and 64 to ID the vlans

and if I were a major company I could use that 16bits to ID the vlan and the location, you could use 2 hex digits for the vlan and 2 for the location and then reserve the 0000 and the ffff ranges for forming special subnets (ie 1 to 1 links or managment networks)



whfsdude
Premium
join:2003-04-05
Washington, DC
Reviews:
·Comcast

1 recommendation

said by DarkLogix:

I expect the following
/64's for all
/48's for business class (to cover the ones that currently pay for statics)

So I think we might see /56 on res in the long term. Often times your average consumer plugs in a wireless router or a secondary router behind their primary router.

If you handed a /56 out, their primary router could also run DHCPv6-PD and give the secondary router a routable network. ISPs might just deem this cheaper to than to provide phone support to that user.


PGHammer

join:2003-06-09
Accokeek, MD
reply to camper

It's both - not one or the other.

Why is it that folks continually want more features for less money from for-profit companies?



Mike Wolf

join:2009-05-24
Beachwood, NJ
kudos:3

When the for profit company makes as much money as they do, they could afford to throw the consumer a bone.



camper
Premium
join:2010-03-21
Bethel, CT
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Comcast

1 recommendation

reply to PGHammer

said by PGHammer:

It's both - not one or the other.

Why is it that folks continually want more features for less money from for-profit companies?

 
I am not against companies making a profit.

However, I do have issues with artificial, marketing-inflated price points that have little correlation to the cost of providing the different levels of service.


DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3

1 recommendation

reply to whfsdude

said by whfsdude:

said by DarkLogix:

I expect the following
/64's for all
/48's for business class (to cover the ones that currently pay for statics)

So I think we might see /56 on res in the long term. Often times your average consumer plugs in a wireless router or a secondary router behind their primary router.

If you handed a /56 out, their primary router could also run DHCPv6-PD and give the secondary router a routable network. ISPs might just deem this cheaper to than to provide phone support to that user.

I doubt it as they that would be similer to a Double nat as far as its usefullness to the adverage person

why have a 2nd router?
most on comcast have a cable modem with a wireless router plugged in, theres no reason for the average joe user to have 2 routers so I don't see that happening, even getting multiple dynamics is tricky as CSR don't know that it was once offered.

AVonGauss
Premium
join:2007-11-01
Boynton Beach, FL

1 recommendation

said by DarkLogix:

I doubt it as they that would be similer to a Double nat as far as its usefullness to the adverage person

Not really, in an IPv6 deployment if everything is configured properly its just another router in the path. I do however agree most (my guess: 99.99999%) residential customers would have no real use for anything but a /64. Even most business customers (cable modem based) would not have a true need of globally routable network (i.e. anything but a /64). The obvious contradiction being a customer with multiple locations where the ISP is providing some level of privatization.


DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3

I know it would be really just another hop in the rout but consider dual stack, then the IPv4 would be double nated

its just not a setup that would have a use in the vast majority of consumers

and a bussiness however would more likely want a /48 so they could easily layout and do route summarization


AVonGauss
Premium
join:2007-11-01
Boynton Beach, FL

The distinction I was trying to make is that a business customer that needs a /48 to do true routing, would most likely not be using a cable modem based connection.



DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3

maybe
but as Hurricane Electric doesn't do /56's and a /56 would split it in the middle of a set I think that its more likely that some business customers would want a little more than a single /64 and that it would be likely to step up to a /48 next

sure you aren't going to use anywhere near even half of that 16bit section but you'd be able to set some vlans and make the use of IPv6 more friendly



Mike Wolf

join:2009-05-24
Beachwood, NJ
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Comcast

I just wonder if my router is capapble of all these complex things. I'm using a Cisco E4200. I wish there was a way to test this all out to see what it can and cannot do so I can upgrade to something else if need be. I know it supports 6rd tunnel manual and automatic because thats what I'm using with HE, and I know it supports IPv6 automatic.


AVonGauss
Premium
join:2007-11-01
Boynton Beach, FL

said by Mike Wolf:

I know it supports 6rd tunnel manual and automatic because thats what I'm using with HE, and I know it supports IPv6 automatic.

Are you that's not 6in4 instead of 6rd?


ctgreybeard
Old dogs can learn new tricks
Premium
join:2001-11-13
Bethel, CT
Reviews:
·Comcast

said by AVonGauss:

said by Mike Wolf:

I know it supports 6rd tunnel manual and automatic because thats what I'm using with HE, and I know it supports IPv6 automatic.

Are you that's not 6in4 instead of 6rd?

My E3200 only supports 6rd manually configured or automatic. IPv6 Automatic mode doesn't connect to Comcast's network so I take that to mean it doesn't support 6in4. There is supposed to be a firmware update in March so maybe that will then allow 6in4.
--
Old dogs can learn new tricks!

AVonGauss
Premium
join:2007-11-01
Boynton Beach, FL

AFAIK, it doesn't support 6in4 tunnels at the moment. The reason I replied to Mike was I don't believe HE has or had at any time a 6rd implementation as 6rd is more akin to 6to4 which is more of a route based implementation.



owlyn
Premium,MVM
join:2004-06-05
Newtown, PA

Just as an FYI, I am using 6 to 4 on Comcast with no problems.



Mike Wolf

join:2009-05-24
Beachwood, NJ
kudos:3
reply to ctgreybeard

firmware version for which though, the e4200 v1 or the e4200 v2



Mike Wolf

join:2009-05-24
Beachwood, NJ
kudos:3
reply to AVonGauss

»www.tunnelbroker.net/forums/inde···c=1850.0



ctgreybeard
Old dogs can learn new tricks
Premium
join:2001-11-13
Bethel, CT
reply to Mike Wolf

I have an E3200 and it's running 1.0.02.
--
Old dogs can learn new tricks!



Mike Wolf

join:2009-05-24
Beachwood, NJ
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Comcast

yes the E3200 only has one version out, I'm referring to the E4200 which has two out. »homestore.cisco.com/en-us/Router···prod.htm


magamiako

join:2006-01-14
Halethorpe, MD

2 edits

1 recommendation

reply to DarkLogix

Long time IPv6 user here. I've been operating v6 on my home network for quite some time; and while I may be the 'exception to the rule' on how I implement my home networking, that doesn't mean I shouldn't have the option to do so for next to no cost.

An example use case is someone who runs VMs on their PC. Virtualization is fairly common amongst the IT community with many users leveraging some sort of Tier 2 hypervisor in order to test network and software implementations. As of now this is typically done with NAT. NAT is HIGHLY discouraged in IPv6 and as such requires the use of ROUTABLE networks for hosts.

To accomplish this you need more than a /64 routed to your household. Exactly how many are needed depends on the use case. At my house I've leveraged around 3-4 for light use cases with testing work-related environments, personal projects, etc. Just merely researching network technologies can require a different network as sometimes you don't want to poison your main LAN with illegitimate requests.

At the local hackerspace I'm a part of I've currently specced out about 5 LANs. User LAN, User WLAN, Core, DMZ, and VPN. The Core LAN is for our internal servers separate from the user networks, separate WLAN subnet is required to avoid issues with fouling up applications on the network.

All of these will see IPv6 and IPv4 dual stack networking. IPv4 currently implements NAT but IPv6 will leverage a /48 provided by HE. While a /48 is a bit overkill for my whole 4 networks, a /56 or even /60 is reasonable enough to allow some expansion for small business and home consumers.

The issue really comes down to the size of the route table which is where the real argument for larger network assignment exists. Smaller networks potentially mean larger route tables.