 SmokeyI'd rather be skiingPremium
join:2003-05-20
Wild West
 ·Verizon Wireless..
| reply to FBGuy
Re: Good riddance That is my feeling... This a failure on all parties parts. GPS manufactures built a flawed product that relies on empty space outside their assigned spectrum for "proper" functionality. LS failed to meet the conditions of the waiver for the assigned spectrum. The FCC, again, just failed all over.
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 FBGuyPremium
join:2005-03-19
Evanston, IL | the FCC is too toothless thanks to industry pressures though. I'm not surprised by the results of all of this. I am disappointed though.
Congress let the FCC become as lame as it is. |
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SmokeyI'd rather be skiingPremium
join:2003-05-20
Wild West | As am I. It offered the idea of a new player who would open up the data market for the small, innovative companies to go to town on Att and Verizon.
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| reply to Smokey
It doesn't rely on empty spectrum, it relied on the neighboring spectrum to be used for its original purpose, which was for transmissions from space to earth, not from base stations close by and more powerful. |
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SmokeyI'd rather be skiingPremium
join:2003-05-20
Wild West Reviews:
·Verizon Wireless..
| That is inherently flawed. Would not a device capable of responding to a satellite in that band also cause that interference?
The idea that your device must have other devices working in a way not thought of 20 years ago when the bands were set aside is flawed. What makes it even more flawed is that the makers were told almost a decade ago to fix this mistake, and failed to do so.
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1 edit | said by Smokey:That is inherently flawed. Would not a device capable of responding to a satellite in that band also cause that interference?
The idea that your device must have other devices working in a way not thought of 20 years ago when the bands were set aside is flawed. What makes it even more flawed is that the makers were told almost a decade ago to fix this mistake, and failed to do so.
A device on earth would not respond in that band, One band for Space to earth another from earth to space, even if someone did it would most likely be a directional antenna or dish.
Edit: Added frequency band plan, as you can see 1525 to 1559 LightSquared's frequencies Sit in the Satellite Space to Earth Band.
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 vpokoPremium
join:2003-07-03
Boston, MA | reply to FBGuy
Do you realize how weak a GPS signal is at the receiver? There is always crosstalk between neighboring frequencies. When the neighboring frequency's signal is several orders of magnitude more powerful on account of its proximity (remember that effective power is inversely proportional to the square of the distance), it will drown out other signals, even if they're not on the exact same band. GPS cannot have terrestrial signals around it, and that's not the fault of GPS. |
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| reply to Smokey
Smokey, neither you nor "John McClane" apparently understand How Radio Works. (Hint: Regurgitating LightSquared's wildly inaccurate assertions as to How Radio Works does not constitute "Understanding How Radio Works.") Nor, apparently, do either of you understand how frequency allocation/planning works, either. (Hint: Whining about the alleged "unfairness" of frequency allocation/planning, just because it doesn't work to ones advantage, does not constitute "understanding.")
I, on the other hand, having been in radio for over 40 years, including terrestrial and satellite microwave communications, do understand How Radio Works. Having held both FCC Advance Class Amateur and FCC Commercial licenses, I also understand how frequency allocation/planning work.
LightSquared's plans were a massive Fail from the get-go. I knew it. Anybody that knew the least bit of How Radio Works knew it. I'm certain FCC's engineers knew it, and FCC granted the conditional waiver only under political pressure from above. (Research "Barack Obama" and "LightSquared" to get an idea where that might've come from.) |
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| said by jseymour:Smokey, neither you nor "John McClane" apparently understand How Radio Works.
That is very obvious. I get the feeling the money behind lightsquared didn't have a clue, either. I'd hate to be an engineer at that company! Beating your head against the walls all day - knowing it's never going to work....
said by BF69:said by FBGuy:it is susceptible to transmissions outside the frequencies used for GPS. The very reasons that lightsquared is getting the axe.
Lightquared is getting the axe because they wanted to use the frequencies for purposes other than they were intended. If Lightsquared had used the frequencies like they were supposed to there would be any interference. Well said. This is in a nutshell. |
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Reviews:
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| reply to jseymour
said by jseymour:I, on the other hand, having been in radio for over 40 years, including terrestrial and satellite microwave communications, do understand How Radio Works. Having held both FCC Advance Class Amateur and FCC Commercial licenses, I also understand how frequency allocation/planning work.
LightSquared's plans were a massive Fail from the get-go. I knew it. Anybody that knew the least bit of How Radio Works knew it. I'm certain FCC's engineers knew it, and FCC granted the conditional waiver only under political pressure from above. (Research "Barack Obama" and "LightSquared" to get an idea where that might've come from.)
Bingo! I too saw this as NEVER flying, the radio interference from the get go was demonstrated time and time again. Engineers and the FCC mentioned it multiple times. Also thanks for pointing us to the following article about Obamas ties to this fiasco:
»www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=46227
Makes a lot of sense now. Seems to me this is going to be the next brilliant Solyndra Goof by our highly capable US President (Oh boy)!
»www.cbsnews.com/8301-505245_162-···o-obama/
I am wondering is there anyone in Washington that is out for the best interest of the citizens and country? Or is the BIG Government and Super Pac Donation(s) where the country is Bankrupt dept rating dropped in the Land of Lincoln (Illinois) where Obama left the state in shambles as a Senator with his unconstitutional Obamacare plan... I wonder.
And it's not just the Democrats, it's this idiot too Lamar Smith (r) Texas. The ranking member of the subcommittee on Science and Technology with his brilliant idears for the internet(s).
Information on Lamar Smith: »youtu.be/Zx5WSxmI1fs
Oh Geeze Clearly the McCain Feingold campaign reform act isn't working and hasn't worked.
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bipartisan···form_Act
Wow thanks American the Land of the Free! |
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 Oh_NoTrogglus normalus
join:2011-05-21
Chicago, IL | reply to Smokey
said by Smokey:That is my feeling... This a failure on all parties parts. GPS manufactures built a flawed product that relies on empty space outside their assigned spectrum for "proper" functionality. LS failed to meet the conditions of the waiver for the assigned spectrum. The FCC, again, just failed all over.
No they did not.
They provided filters based on FCC specs and to accomodate red and blue shifted gps signals. The FCC allows for out of band emissions. This is why GPS has a block of frequencies 1559 to 1610 MHz but only broadcast on 1575.42 MHz and surround frequencies are satellite only. The new L1C signal at 1574.42 will even shift more into the lower spectrums that goes live 2014.
You just cant add such a powerful signal right next to weak satellite signal. |
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 marigoldsGainfully employed, finallyPremium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO
kudos:2 | reply to Smokey
said by Smokey:That is my feeling... This a failure on all parties parts. GPS manufactures built a flawed product that relies on empty space outside their assigned spectrum for "proper" functionality. That spectrum actually is assigned to GPS. That is why LightSquared needed a conditional waiver to operate inside it.
The actual satellites transmit on a narrow band of frequencies inside their assigned spectrum, which is why it can be shared with other satellite users.
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| reply to jlibuszowski
said by jlibuszowski:Bingo! I too saw this as NEVER flying, the radio interference from the get go was demonstrated time and time again. Engineers and the FCC mentioned it multiple times. Also thanks for pointing us to the following article about Obamas ties to this fiasco: Too bad it's RWers that want to kill the EPA, FDA, FCC etc etc and not allow them to do their job. It doesn't take a genius to work out why these things are not an issue in other developed countries, because their equivalent agencies have the authority to do their job.
This is GOP 101 at it's best anyway, allowing business to do whatever it pleases, in the name of the mighty profit for the few.
Makes a lot of sense now. Seems to me this is going to be the next brilliant Solyndra Goof by our highly capable US President (Oh boy)!
I am wondering is there anyone in Washington that is out for the best interest of the citizens and country? Or is the BIG Government and Super Pac Donation(s) where the country is Bankrupt dept rating dropped in the Land of Lincoln (Illinois) where Obama left the state in shambles as a Senator with his unconstitutional Obamacare plan... I wonder.
Another moot point is the superpac considering it was RWer politicians that allow corporations and conglomerates to form superpacs. It's RWer SCOTUS judges that allowed a corporation to share the same rights as an American.
A senator doesn't decide state fiscal policy and his health plan was not in place during that period either.
I am surprised you found time to write something when you could be listening to Alex Jones or Ventura. |
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SmokeyI'd rather be skiingPremium
join:2003-05-20
Wild West | reply to marigolds
So then if Dish were to attempt this same idea with their spectrum, would we hear the same argument from the GPS community?
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Para Bellum!! |
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1 edit | reply to jlibuszowski
said by jlibuszowski:said by jseymour:I, on the other hand, having been in radio for over 40 years, including terrestrial and satellite microwave communications, do understand How Radio Works. Having held both FCC Advance Class Amateur and FCC Commercial licenses, I also understand how frequency allocation/planning work.
LightSquared's plans were a massive Fail from the get-go. I knew it. Anybody that knew the least bit of How Radio Works knew it. I'm certain FCC's engineers knew it, and FCC granted the conditional waiver only under political pressure from above. (Research "Barack Obama" and "LightSquared" to get an idea where that might've come from.)
Bingo! I too saw this as NEVER flying, the radio interference from the get go was demonstrated time and time again. Engineers and the FCC mentioned it multiple times. Also thanks for pointing us to the following article about Obamas ties to this fiasco: » www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=46227Makes a lot of sense now. Seems to me this is going to be the next brilliant Solyndra Goof by our highly capable US President (Oh boy)! » www.cbsnews.com/8301-505245_162-···o-obama/I am wondering is there anyone in Washington that is out for the best interest of the citizens and country? Or is the BIG Government and Super Pac Donation(s) where the country is Bankrupt dept rating dropped in the Land of Lincoln (Illinois) where Obama left the state in shambles as a Senator with his unconstitutional Obamacare plan... I wonder. And it's not just the Democrats, it's this idiot too Lamar Smith (r) Texas. The ranking member of the subcommittee on Science and Technology with his brilliant idears for the internet(s). Information on Lamar Smith: » youtu.be/Zx5WSxmI1fsOh Geeze Clearly the McCain Feingold campaign reform act isn't working and hasn't worked. » en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bipartisan···form_ActWow thanks American the Land of the Free! Solyndra went bankrupt because Congress cancelled a promised loan, and China has subsidized its solar companies with $40 billion in fresh capital last year alone. Chinese solar companies have been dumping their products onto the market to drive out competition.
Not every investment is going to work. In venture capital 1 out of 100 investments turns out to be successful. The government didn't even "lose" $500 million. They still make their money back on whatever capital Solyndra owns after it is all sold.
Whining about less than $500 million, while the "defense department" spends $700 billion/year, is the definition of hypocrsity. |
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marigoldsGainfully employed, finallyPremium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO
kudos:2 | reply to Smokey
Re: Good riddance said by Smokey:So then if Dish were to attempt this same idea with their spectrum, would we hear the same argument from the GPS community?
Dish has their own licensed 700Mhz spectrum. They are not on an L band waiver. |
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 KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | reply to Smokey
They found a way to improve accuracy by using further away satellites that had doppler shifted outside the frequencies set for GPS, so yes, they are also guilty of using unapproved spectrum.
However they are firmly entrenched now and in widespread use, so the onus was always on LightSquared to show their service didn't cause problems for GPS. Apparently, they failed, but I do think that some of LightSquared claims may have some validity to them, but they had an uphill battle from the start. Was a huge gamble, which has failed..... but we really need people who think outside the box.
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KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | reply to sonicmerlin
said by sonicmerlin:Solyndra went bankrupt because Congress cancelled a promised loan, and China has subsidized its solar companies with $40 billion in fresh capital last year alone. Chinese solar companies have been dumping their products onto the market to drive out competition.
Not every investment is going to work. In venture capital 1 out of 100 investments turns out to be successful. The government didn't even "lose" $500 million. They still make their money back on whatever capital Solyndra owns after it is all sold. Careful, you might inject facts into the discussion, which makes it harder to just repeat partisan propaganda.
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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 r81984Fair and BalancedPremium
join:2001-11-14
Katy, TX
·row44
 ·AT&T U-Verse
·AT&T DSL Service
| reply to KrK
What???
Everything GPS uses is approved.
It is owned by american taxpayers and approved by american voters representatives.
GPS manufactures just make products so us tax payers can use the network we paid for.
There are great reasons why the FCC only allows other weaker satellites to broadcast around the GPS single. Lightsquaredd was trying to use spectrum allocated aside for satellite phones and internet for way more powerful ground use.
The FCC was nice enough to let lightsquaredd try with their phantom technology. that defied logic. Lightsquared has no real technology to do what they claimed so they lost their waiver. The FCC never had to let them have a chance in the first place.
[extra d is for a double dose of dead, lol]
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